Black Spirituality Religion : Why People Continue To Believe Christianity

[Destee]

Samurai, you've missed my central point in this thread.

The "religion" most of our immediate ancestors practiced is of lesser importance than the spiritual strength and legacy they left behind.

It is common knowledge that black christians existed prior to slavery, but even those that encountered it during slavery, managed to still find and connect with the essence of God, despite the trappings of the religion.

There is a case to be made that the version of christianity they created in the midst of slavery was something new all together, and an even stronger case that it sustained, nourished and united them.

The matter of not honoring them includes the foul name calling and disrespectful arrogance displayed towards their existence.

If God, the creator, or whatever title you use, is only universal enough to work within 1 religion, and is only geniuinely experienced through 1 set of rituals, then threads like these make a lot of sense. Otherwise....

Good to see you back brother. Your presence has been missed.

peace

Brother Kemetkind ... i am simply in awe of you ...



Destee

 

[Destee]

We don't need to go back and forth on this.

This comprehension tactic by you and River is amusing, but beneath both of you.

It's very simple.

People continue to believe in christianity because it is one of the means through which they experience their spiritual relationship with God.

That spiritual relationship, however you want to define it, is what is sought by most people in any belief system.

I do not believe it is possible for an ATR proponent to tell a buddhist, a christian, a muslim or anybody else that there can be NO valid spiritual relationship formed with the creator through any belief system other than ATR.

If you and those similarly minded find peace in believing otherwise, so be it, that's your belief.

But if you are under the impression the creator is incapable of guiding the life of a Christian, nothing I can post on a message board can move you from your sanctimonious judgements.

I find it arrogant to limit the creator in such a fashion, and have NO doubts that anyone claiming their beliefs are the only path to God is working with suspect understanding.

My very simple point is spirituality is personal. You cannot agree it is independent of religion but then claim christians must be devoid of it.

And since you cannot possibly be privy to the details of the spirituality of any person based on their "religion," we should should respect other's beliefs.

You and others apparently don't agree, and feel your disrespect is justified by reason of your claims to the "truth." lol. We'll have to agree to disagree as nothing further is to be gained here.

peace

Brother Kemetkind ... here i am again ... whew ...



Destee

 

[SAMURAI36]

We don't need to go back and forth on this.

This comprehension tactic by you and River is amusing, but beneath both of you.

I can't say for certain, but it sounds as if you are confusing my choosing to disagree with your perspective, with a lack of comprehension of it. If that is indeed the case, then I would say that you are definitely incorrect.

It's very simple.

People continue to believe in christianity because it is one of the means through which they experience their spiritual relationship with God.

Simple to you perhaps...........But yet again, I disagree with what you are saying.

That spiritual relationship, however you want to define it, is what is sought by most people in any belief system.

Disagree.

Spirituality, based on how I define it, cannot be found in any belief system, despite their search for it therein.

Here is where I continue to ask what your particular definition of spirituality is, especially since you have yet to tender it here, despite my initial request.

At one point, you attempt implicitly link spirituality as being synonymous with religion, and then at another point, you attempt--just as implicitly--to separate them, in your ambiguous recognition of the superlative nature of spirituality over that of religion.

Which is it?

If it's the latter, then let's all bear witness to the notion that some religions are more inclined to reach a spiritual goal over others.

If it's the former, then, pending your own definition and criteria of just what spirituality is, please give examples of how this works.

I do not believe it is possible for an ATR proponent to tell a buddhist, a christian, a muslim or anybody else that there can be NO valid spiritual relationship formed with the creator through any belief system other than ATR.

And that is not what is or has been done here. Because, that is not within the doctrine of any ATR to make such a claim. However, ironically, by the sheer nature of the doctrine and dogma of Christianity, that is in fact what a Christian would tell any other religious adherant.

And therein lies the dilemma; despite Destee's claim of this being about the believers and not the belief itself, the very dogma of Christianity teaches intolerance for anything or anyone that does not profess allegiance and belief in Christianity.

Don't Christians believe that anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell? From my knowledge, no other belief system teaches this.

Thus, by very virtue of your personal credo, Christianity as a belief and an institution is "disrespectful".

If you and those similarly minded find peace in believing otherwise, so be it, that's your belief.

I know that I have been gone for a while, but I would hope that one of the things that you would have remembered about me previous to my departure, is that I don't "believe" in anything.

Now, to clarify the ATR perspective, as one who practices such a system for the purpose of spiritual development:

We do not, nor would not tell a Christian that their beliefs are "wrong". However, we do know and recognize that, as people who are working to free ourselves and our people from physical, mental, and spiritual bondage, Christianity only serves to keep us in such a place. This understanding has nothing to do with personal "beliefs", but rather an understanding of history.

Now, with that being said, the "rightness or wrongness" of that belief is strictly up to the individual.

If you seek to go to church because you like to dress up on Sunday, then so be it. If you like to here and watch the Preacher's antics, then OK. If you like to scream and shout and do cart-wheels up and down the isles, that's cool. If you go to give your tithes every week, because that's the place that you choose as a tax write-off, then have at it.

However, none of these things should be misconstrued at spiritual development.

But if you are under the impression the creator is incapable of guiding the life of a Christian, nothing I can post on a message board can move you from your sanctimonious judgements.

The only person making "sanctimonious judgements" here, is you.

It doesn't take a spiritual aspirant to know (even your basic religious believer knows this) that the Creator guides the direction of all people, and all things in the universe.

The Creator keeps the raining falling, the rivers flowing, the birds flying, and the fish swimming.

However, with this I must restate 2 points:

#1) I have already stated that religious preference is always superceded by spirituality. For you to throw that "sanctimonious judgement" statement in, shows that the only person here utilizing a "comprehension tactic" (whatever that actually is), is you.

#2) None of this has anything directly to do with the spiritual development of humanity.

I find it arrogant to limit the creator in such a fashion, and have NO doubts that anyone claiming their beliefs are the only path to God is working with suspect understanding.

I agree with you with this; I find it arrogant also. Good thing no one here (certainly not I) is doing that.

My very simple point is spirituality is personal. You cannot agree it is independent of religion but then claim christians must be devoid of it.

You are creating a Straw-Man argument here.

Yes, spirituality is personal, but it is also universal. Spiritual development does not occur without some sort of governing laws and/or rules. The same Creator that controls how many moments transpire between the tick of every second, would not have us haphazardly stumbling about without a Universe guideline.

Now with that said, this has nothing to do with religion. The Cosmos has been spinning on its axis (a spiritual event) long before Man has ever exsisted, and certainly long before there was ever anything called "religion".

While I am intelligent enough to know that there are some aspects of virtually all religions that jibe well along the lines of what the Creator has planned, I am also equally smart enough to recognize that there are many aspects of at least some religions that contradict the mandates of the Universe.

Thus, it's not (necessarily) my argument that Christianity is "devoid" of anything, but that the nature of the system as a whole serves as a hinderance to our reaching our true spiritual potential.

You mentioned the 80 year old woman before: while I recognize that she is not without her own spiritual fortitude, can you in turn fathom where she might be, has she not been hindered by the physical, psychological, social, and spiritual (the latter encompasses all of the formers) stymies that Christianity by design presents?

Where would we all, as a People, be right now?

And since you cannot possibly be privy to the details of the spirituality of any person based on their "religion," we should should respect other's beliefs.

I disagree. I think people mistake respecting a person apropo, and respecting their right to believe whatever they wish, with respecting the belief itself.

You do not have to respect ATR's, or any other belief for that matter. All that I ask, is that you respect me as your fellow human being, and my choice of "belief", and I shall do the same to you.

Further, it should be understood that not respecting someone or something, is not disrespecting them/it by default. These are 2 totally separate, independent and mutually exclusive acts.

I respect the White man as a part of Creation, and I even respect his part that he plays within it. But I will NEVER respect his belief that I as a Black man am a "monkey", that anyone who is not white should be enslaved or destroyed, etc.

If you feel that you must respect all "beliefs", then by all means, do you. But that does not make you more admirable of a person, than me or others who do not wish to do so.

You and others apparently don't agree, and feel your disrespect is justified by reason of your claims to the "truth." lol. We'll have to agree to disagree as nothing further is to be gained here.

peace

With this, I'm going to say that you have idea what you are talking about, "lol".

You have spent this last post of yours putting words in people's mouths, oversimplifying our perspectives, all the while never really taking the time to reach and understanding with what is being said.

In the meantime, you never bothered to answer any of my questions that I posed to you, so that I might gain a true understanding of just what it is that you think/feel.

But C'est La Vie.

PEACE

 

[SAMURAI36]

I never said that you must honor Christianity. For that matter, i never said you must honor anything.

I realize what you said, along with what you did not say.

This thread speaks directly to Christians, not Christianity.

I beg to differ. The very title of this thread speaks about Christianity, and that is what was being addressed--both by myself, as well as others here--including you.

Likewise, if a thread was started speaking directly to our enslaved Ancestors, rather than the institution that enslaved them ... i would be saying the same thing as i am now ... probably even more.



Destee

OK, but that was not the nature of this thread.

This would be no different than someone asking "with all that you know about cigarettes, why do people continue smoke?"

The subject then, would be cigarettes and smoking, not necessarily people.

PEACE

 

[kemetkind]

the Creator guides the direction of all people, and all things in the universe.....

All that I ask, is that you respect me as your fellow human being, and my choice of "belief", and I shall do the same to you.

I do think you've gottten my point, and further, seems you agree with it.

Some things deserve to be simplified.

This needs to be no more complicated than an agreement to respect each other's choice of belief, since we've already acknowledged the creator guides us all.