PEACE BROTHER KEMETKIND:
As have I; and as such, please do not think I was ignoring your message.
Yes, a viscious cycle, that you could have avoided from the very beginning.
Excellent question.....Which is why I could not understand why you sought to engage in such behavior in the first place.
What was the relevance of mentioning your wife and mother here? Though I'm sure that they are fine people, their presence in this discussion bears no relevance whatsoever, especially since they are not participating in this discussion to begin with.
I would be inclined to agree, that you would not "win" in such an endeavor. Except that such a failed endeavor would have nothing to do with the audience, but rather your being bereft of a proper method of attack, coupled with your not having a clearly established perspective to attack with.
Further, your bias about this "audience" is tantamount to underestimating them, but also quite unbecoming.
In the meantime, it is no disgrace to accept defeat. As a disciple of both Chess and Swordfighting, I have been taught by my Enlighteners of both disciplines, that the loser of a contest has more to gain from it than the winner does.
I'm sure it would be, if that was in fact what I was doing, or had done. It's easy to make all sorts of assertions, when one opts not to substantiate them. Please feel free to prove wherein I had done any such thing here.
That's great, but once again, just like mentioning your wife and mother, that has absolutely no bearing or relevance in this discussion.
And yet, you accuse me of "diverting the focus of the discussion"?? Your meanderings of hypocrisy are borderlining the insultive.
Excellent.
The only "offense" that I took to that statement, is that you have yet to clarify its relevance, in reference to my assertions here.
Your "Miss Piggy" sentiment, if I understood it correctly, was akin to basically saying that my perspective was unfit, despite it being well presented vernacularly.
While I don't take personal offense to some shooting down my theories, what I do have grievance with, is doing so while not offering an alternative in kind.
Proof of this, lies in the fact that my very first response to you in this thread, was in the form of a request to clarify your perspective, which, despite your offering of a response, you had nonetheless failed to tender.
I.E., telling someone that they are wrong, but not telling someone how they are wrong, is utterly pointless.
True indeed.
I certainly hope so.
You are continuing to show and prove that you have not comprehended a single thing that I've said, especially as you continued to oversimplify my statements, and the sentiments behind them.
Have you actually thoroughly read this entire thread--more specifically, my responses herein?
Firstly, as I've also "elucidated" that this situation is not going to be fixed overnight (you are clearly not comprehending here), then your choice of "OVERNIGHT" as verbage was pointless. You continue to attribute statements and notions that are/were not mine to me. Why?
Anyways, more to the question: Regarding the Black woman's refinement of discernment, your question implies that she is choosing over inaminate objects like shoes or cars.
The reality is, that if Black men want to have a quality Black woman in his/our lives, then he is going to have to step up to the plate, by striving to match the more refined criteria that she would at some point learn to set forth.
You mentioned the Chaucer earlier....... if that test was not as difficult as it is, then you would have every mediocre Negro walking around talking about "Yo, I'm a Scientist". I'm sure, that as a scientist yourself, you would take offense to such a thing.
My perspective has not changed. You're more than free to disagree with it, if you like. But for the sake of discussion, I ask that you do 2 things:
#1) Please fully understand what you are disagreeing with, as thus far you have not indicated that you do.
#2) Please offer a viable alternative to my perspective, as you opt to shoot mine down.
Without being offensive to you, this question clearly indicates that you do not have the keenest understanding of what Matriarchy, et-al. really is.
Perhaps a separate discussion about this custom is in order, and mayhaps Brother Sun Ship could assist me in constructing a separate thread.
Otherwise, it seems that much of this discussion is at an impasse, since the base of my perspectives is based on my knowledge of said custom, whilst yours seems to be based on the lack thereof.
But to the satisfaction of your question, the role and purpose of the man/male is as accorded within the customs in question.
Please indicate evidence of such an argument. True the woman has a inherent power, but it's one that she either readily tries to hand over to men, or that she wrecklessly and aimlessly flouts towards no good end.
Besides, if this power was not "lost" (lost does not always imply absense), then why are not better decisions for a mate not being seen? I just had a conversation with a sister about the notions of Romance and what not. People (especially women, and even moreso especially Sisters) still wish to buy into faulty European and Biblical notions such as "Romance" and the "Proverbs 31 woman", while not understanding the origins of these faulty practices.
In the meantime, the result is a nation/society with the highest divorce rate in comparison to the entire world put together, the highest STD rate, the highest teen pregnancy rate, the highest domestic violence rate.......Need I go on? All of which is a result of the "fantasy" that we (and women in particular) subscribe to.
Brother, your "limited understanding of African Matriarchy" is the root of your lack of understanding of my perspective here. While waiting for myself and (hopefully) Brother Sun Ship to give more info, I would greatly recommend that you take the time to learn more about this subject, to see how my offers of solutions and theories otherwise would play out under its auspices.
The topic of Matriarchy, etc-al is not an obscure one, and is easily researchable. There are numerous pieces of literature on the subject, such as the book that I mentioned in my first post here: AN AFROCENTRIC GUIDE TO A SPIRITUAL UNION. In nearly a week's time since I first posted my initial information, did you bother to look into this book, perhaps procuring it for yourself?
Nevertheless, Matriarchy is not a concept that is in anyway synonymous or relative to how we as Black people in these modern times live. Factually, this current "lifestyle" that we live now is an affront to it.
Further, contrary to what your (and others') statements imply, we cannot paint over this current lifestyle, with what we (scarcely) think Matriarchy, et-al is. That would be tantamount to "putting lipstick on a swine" as you so aptly designated earlier.
That is also the reason that you need to have the keenest understanding of what Matriarchy, et-al is; not to have this, and to pretend that you do while arguing the point, is pointless for both of us, and insulting for at least one of us.
Matriarchy, et-al is a lifestyle that finds itself manifested in every aspect of society, just as any other ubiquitous custom does (or at least, is supposed to).
You admitted earlier, that sociology is not one of your strongest fields of science. Well, it would need to be, in order to keenly understand Matriarchy, et-al and my theories behind/about it.
Matriarchy is both founded upon, as well as serves to foundate the practice of socialism. Socialism as a practice, is the antithesis to Capitalism that this society (and our people especially) have been duped into trying to live. Hence, the problem with most modern-day marriages and relationships. They are based on capitalism ("what you can do for me"), and not socialism ("what I can do for us").
Furthermore, Matriarchy, et-al finds itself manifested in the religion(s), politics, and science arts, as they are practiced by said society.
Contrary to your notion (a notion based on limited knowledge and understanding), Our women are legally powerless in this society. Women who strive to alter their appearance just to get and keep the attention of a man, is not the example of a woman possessing and expressing power.
You don't see Matriarchy, et-al in this society--at least, not within its proper form.
You yourself also admitted that African history was based on Patriarchy, not Matriarchy. That much is obvious, even now as you (and others) tend to color your perspectives based on that false and obsolete notion.
Not at all. But given the fact that you still lack a sufficient knowledge of Matriarchy proper, you're really not in the best position to question any definition, until you do acquire a better base of knowledge.
Why do you think women were worshipped as God(dess) in ancient times? Why do many of our people the world over worship the White Jesus now? What does this do to the psychology of a person?
Do you understand what I am asking? Where this question will lead you to?
This is a redundant question, no different from, "after you have lunch, what are you going to eat"?
The answer is keenly instrinsic. THE POWER LIES WITH THE WOMAN.
Most likely what it is for yours: Man, Woman and Child, living in harmony with one another, in accordance to, but not limited by, their respective roles.
However, that is not what is at issue here. That is the goal, but the goal does not "equate to" the path by which we get there. However, the latter does "result in" the former.
Which was my point all along. It is most unfortunate that you missed it (and continue to do so.....?).
PEACE
But I haven't done that anyway, so I suppose there is no procurement happeneing in my life.It's just that I think that a foundation of other information is necessary before doing so.
