Black Relationships : The Institution of Marriage: More and more men are boycotting...

Discussion in 'Black Relationships' started by Regina, Mar 31, 2003.

  1. Regina

    Regina Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Is marriage as we know it a thing of the past? What does marriage mean to you? Do you feel it is religious sacrement or a civil ceremony? Do you feel people use marriage in selfish ways?

    More and more children are being born outside of marriage. Our families are suffering. My personal feeling is that marriage is a religious sacrement and is not to be taken lightly. It is not something to be entered in without much thought, preparation and maturity.

    Some people view marriage as a way to gain economically. Many men I have spoken with have sworn off marriage and are boycotting it. Many women I have spoken with say men will not commit.

    Your views? Ideas?
     
  2. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Whose idea was marriage and why?

    "Is marriage as we know it a thing of the past?"

    I'm not sure how to answer that question other than to say that I think that eventually the institution of marriage might change due to public pressure placed by some groups to expand the opportunity for them to enter into a relationship that binds them together legally.

    "What does marriage mean to you?"

    To me, marriage means two things: Socially, it connects me to another person legally. Spiritually, marriage brings two souls together and commits them to each other emotionally, spiritually and physically.

    "Do you feel it is religious sacrement or a civil ceremony?"

    I see it as a spiritual union. In a church or in front of a justice of the peace doesn't matter to me as long as it's acceptable to the God he and I serve.

    "Do you feel people use marriage in selfish ways?"

    Yes, I can see how people could do this. I would. When I marry, the message that I'm conveying to my spouse and to society is that he's mine and I'm his and no one else can have him or me in the way that we belong to each other. Isn't that being selfish in a way?
     
  3. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hmmm ...

    "Is marriage as we know it a thing of the past?"

    I'm not clear on what "as we know it" means. Are we talking "longevity"?, "commitment"?, "sincerity"? or are we speaking as to the "roles"?, "challenges"? of marriages in today's society? When I hear people reference marriage of the past I immediately think of longevity...30, 40, 50+ years; to me, that's the only difference I see in comparison to marriages of today. Having said that, I (strongly) believe that we still have longevity in marriages today(as quiet as it's kept), perhaps not as many of those of yesteryears.

    What does marriage mean to you?"

    A commitment, a union, to build and share a relationship where you can reach the highest level attainable of that relationship.

    "Do you feel it is religious sacrement or a civil ceremony?"

    I'm with Queen on this one...I think it is of a spiritual nature.


    "Do you feel people use marriage in selfish ways?"

    People have always used marriage in selfish ways...The thing about marriage (as well as love, and relationships)...it is created and shaped by the individuals entering into it. If selfishness is an ingredient use in creating the marriage, the marriage will have a selfish taste to it...how strong the taste would be depends on how much selfishness is used.

    If men are boycotting marriage, it's probably because men, more often than not, are usually the forgotten partner if a marriage fail. I don't think men are boycotting the idea or institution of marriage itself; I think it might be the prospect of multiple marriages that's causing them to rethink the idea of "them" marrying again.
     
  4. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ZG...good response. I'm particularly interested in knowing more about your last statement: "If men are boycotting marriage, it's probably because men, more often than not, are usually the forgotten partner if a marriage fail. I don't think men are boycotting the idea or institution of marriage itself; I think it might be the prospect of multiple marriages that's causing them to rethink the idea of "them" marrying again."

    What do you mean when you wrote that, more often than not, men are usually the forgotten partner if a marriage fails?

    When a marriage is in the midst of failing, it's easy for each person to see things from only their point of view, but do you think that women receive more empathy from a failed marriage than a man? A woman can often turn to family and friends for support. There are numerous counseling and support groups in the community for women to participate in. Where does the man go for support?

    It's refreshing to know that there are men who also view marriage as a spiritual union. That's my personal philosophy and I realize that not everyone will agree with it. If you believe all the hype in the media today, it's no wonder people get confused and often marry for bad reasons. I understand that in most states today, a couple is required to undergo pre-marital counseling. Does anyone know if this is true and does it appear that it's working to help marriages last longer?

    As long as the couple (emphasis on "couple") is on the same page when a marriage begins, I think it gives that union a good chance to last, don't you?
     
  5. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Is marriage as we know it a thing of the past?

    That depends on what each of us 'knows' as marriage. Everyone's reality is not the same. Many have seen disfunctional abusive marriages and know no different other than T.V. Is marriage suffering a decline in its importance and reverance as it relates to society....I believe so. We are more focused on gratification rather than commitment. So....the institution of marriage will suffer.

    What does marriage mean to you?
    To me it is a union entered into for the purpose of friendship, love, companionship, and child birth.

    Do you feel it is religious sacrement or a civil ceremony?
    For me it is both. In religious terms all that is required is witnesses to the union. Man has added the minister, the ceremony, and the legalities. In order to be recognized by law, we must jump through the hoops...so we do the civil ceremony.

    Do you feel people use marriage in selfish ways?
    Now this answer may draw some debate....:D

    Marriage (especially in America) is nothing but selfishness. We don't get married for any other reason than to please ourselves. There are differenct things that satisfy our selfish gains...but they are all selfish. Some do it for love, some for money, some for sex,some for children, some for companionship, some to live like the jones', some to please society, but I would submit that VERY few of us get married in order that another person(or
    family) gets something out of it.

    There are people in some parts of Africa, Asia, South America, and the Middle East, who still get married for unselfish reasons....mostly to enhance the families power, wealth, and to provide stability for their communities...and ironically those marriages continue to last for 30,40,50 years while ours are ending very quickly either because we don't get that we are looking for...or because we have gotten it and its time to move on.

    On men swearing off marriage IMHO..many just don't feel it is worth the hassle. They can acheive everthing in life without the headache of having a wife. They can have kids out of wedlock and still take care of them without having a wife(not saying its right only that it is a thought process)...so all that's left is love and companisionship in old age..and they can worry about that at 50 or 55.
    Before that age why not have their cake and eat it to without having to be accountable to a wife for their actions.

    peace and luv
    Dre'
     
  6. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Absolutely Queen ...

    being on the same page is great, but heck, just being in the same book is good also :)

    There is no scientific data backing this up...this is just my humble opinion, based on the few friends I know, what I've read, and just general observation. The forgotten partner I mentioned is more in reference to the legal aspect than the emotional aspect.

    There is little equity in the court systems when it comes to divorces and child custody for men. The focus is on the child(ren) if any, and the female. I concur strongly that the focus should be on the child(ren), the problem I see is that the courts, for the most part attach the child(ren) with the female and the male is "forgotten". Things are getting better, but they have a long way to go, and because of that, to some men, it only takes one fail marriage to cause them to "rethink" about marrying again.

    When a man re-marries (if he had children from his first marriage), he is obligated to two households on the same income as before. If a woman re-marries, for the most part, she's only obligated to her current family...this is a huge factor that's often overlooked or "forgotten". Everything is relative and each marriage/divorce situation will be different I know.

    "They" say that second marriages are very difficult and often times expensive (especially if there are children) ... men might be turning to "boycotting" marriage and thinking the very thing that Kem alluded to :)
     
  7. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    LOL! Strong statements Dre :) ... you do have a way with words.

    I'm marinading on your comment " ... ours are ending very quickly either because we don't get that we are looking for...or because we have gotten it and its time to move on. "

    This is worth thinking about, b'cause it does appear in this society that this is what's happening!
     
  8. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Zero---

    Although until now I hadn't given the forgotten male theory any thought....It makes complete since., and happens very much like you have stated.

    Nice observation.
     
  9. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hold up guys...

    Before you start bumpin' chests and hi-fiving...LOL

    Dre' you had me crackin' up when I read your post! *lol*

    "On men swearing off marriage IMHO..many just don't feel it is worth the hassle. They can acheive everthing in life without the headache of having a wife." When did wives become a "headache?" *LOL*

    "...so all that's left is love and companisionship in old age..and they can worry about that at 50 or 55. Before that age why not have their cake and eat it to without having to be accountable to a wife for their actions." 50 or 55 is OLD age? You mean people in that age bracket aren't supposed to have fun anymore? *LOL*

    I agree with ZG, you do have a way with words! *lol* I also agree that your assessment of why marriages aren't lasting as long today as compared to the past could be a large part of the problem with marriages that are failing. I think there are many factors to consider but I agree this is one. Self-gratification is a hungry beast that requires a daily dose of selfishness to sustain it.

    ZG...thanks for the response. I'm clear now about what you meant about men often being the forgotten partner in failed marriages. From a legal standpoint, I would agree, although that is slowly changing. When children are involved, I wonder how many fathers actually pursue custody of the children when a divorce is looming ahead.

    American society is gender biased (among other biases) and the legal system (and religious institutions) continues to assume that children are better off with their mothers because of the nurturing role assigned to women in this country. So when mothers take care of these children, even when she marries again, the children remain a financial expense for the biological fathers. Now, the right or wrong...good or not so good of that is a whole other debate.

    Is being "selfish" inherently a bad thing or are we just taught that it is? :)
     
  10. Nfant_De_Milieu

    Nfant_De_Milieu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I do not think marriage is a thing of the past. I plan on getting married, no time soon though, I am still a young cat. I am still working on building my foundation. Unlike some people, I do not want to be married living in my parents house. I know some nice sistahs and when I get situated who knows, no rush. I remember my freshman orientation at university. The president was speaking and said, "...I know a lot of you ladys are here looking for husbands". You could look at this marriage thing in 2 ways.

    1.Some guys are living the "playa" life style. We all know the saying, why pay for something you can get for free. A lot of this comes from morals.

    2.Men donot want to be caught up in baby-momma-drama / a messy divorce/ ect. Men know the courts are not our friends. A man gets a divorce and you know a lot of times she will get half, child support, and maybe alimony. Image paying all that and a few days after the divorce she moves in a new man. While the ex-husband is barely making it, he is sleeping on the floor of an apartment. The more he makes the more she gets. Men see cases like this and wonder is it worth it.

    Sometimes women need to take a look in the mirror. The blame everyone but themselves. http://www.stankmag.net/undesirables.shtml
     
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