Black Spirituality Religion : Did Paul Lie On Jesus?

[Fine1952]

IMHO Paul was false...

He was not of the original 12. He inserted himself into the group. His words are suspect.

However, Christians quote him more than any other.
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Matthew 10:2-5 "... Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel..."

However Pauls' illegtimate, non authentic, non verified, self-appointed message was to the Gentiles. Nobody can testify for Paul but Paul he was never a disciple. He proclaimed him own self legitmacy. He declared himself into authentcity. He delegated himself self verification.

When did the so-Calls gospel become his gospel?

Romans 2:16
Romans 16:25
2Timothy 2:8

Barnabas dissented with Paul, because Paul spoke of things that Jesus did not teach. Conveniently and consequently, the Gospel of Barnabas is "not" apart of the New Testament.

 

[GrandHustle]

Saul / Paul


SAUL of Tarsus was a murderous opponent of Christ's followers. But the Lord had a different future in store for him. Saul was to become an outstanding representative of the very cause he had fought so vehemently. Said Jesus: "This man [Saul] is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel."-Acts 9:15.

Saul's life as "an insolent man" was changed completely when he was shown mercy and became the "chosen vessel" of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Timothy 1:12, 13) Energies that had motivated participation in the stoning of Stephen and other attacks on Jesus' disciples were turned to entirely different objectives when Saul became the Christian apostle Paul. Jesus evidently saw desirable traits in Saul.

Saul's Family Background

At the time of Stephen's murder soon after Pentecost 33 C.E., Saul was "a young man." When writing to Philemon in about 60-61 C.E., he was "an aged man." (Acts 7:58; Philemon 9) "young" likely meant an age between 24 and 40, whereas "an aged man" would be from 50 to 56 years old. So Saul was probably born just a few years after the birth of Jesus.

Jews then lived in many parts of the world. Conquest, slavery, deportation, trade, and voluntary migration were among the causes of their dispersion from Judea. Though his family were Jews of the dispersion, Saul underlines their allegiance to the Law, stating that he was "circumcised the eighth day, out of the family stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born from Hebrews; as respects law, a Pharisee." Saul bore the same Hebrew name as an eminent member of his tribe-the first king of Israel. As a Roman from birth, Saul of Tarsus also had a Latin name, Paullus.-Philippians 3:5; Acts 13:21; 22:25-29.


Saul's Education

Saul, or Paul, made honest provision for himself and supported his missionary activities by making tents. (Acts 18:2, 3; 20:34) The trade of tentmaker was typical of his native city, Tarsus. It is likely that Saul learned the tentmaking trade from his father in youth.

Saul's knowledge of languages-especially his mastery of Greek, the common tongue of the Roman Empire-also proved invaluable in his missionary work. (Acts 21:37-22:2) Analysts of his writings say that his Greek is excellent. His vocabulary is not classical or literary but, rather, reflects that of the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures that he often quoted or paraphrased. On this evidence, various scholars assume that Saul received at least a good elementary education in Greek, probably in a Jewish school. Saul's education thus suggests that he came from a prominent family.

Likely, when he was no older than 13, Saul continued his schooling in Jerusalem, some 520 miles from home. He was educated at the feet of Gamaliel, a well-known and highly esteemed teacher of the Pharisaic tradition. (Acts 22:3; 23:6) Those studies, comparable to a university education today, threw open the door of opportunity for achieving prominence in Judaism.

Abilities Put to Good Use

Born into a Jewish family in a Hellenistic and Roman city, Saul belonged to three worlds. A cosmopolitan multilingual background doubtless helped him to become "all things to people of all sorts." (1 Corinthians 9:19-23) His Roman citizenship later permitted him to defend his ministry legally and take the good news before the highest authority in the Roman Empire. (Acts 16:37-40; 25:11, 12) Of course, Saul's background, education, and personality were known to Jesus, who said to Ananias: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. For I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name." (Acts 9:13-16)

 

[Fine1952]

Great Topic!

Paul, the undisciple--lied on Himself, GOD and the historical Jesus {i.e. Iyesu, Y'usha--if you will since the letter J is not in Hebrew vocabulary].

 

[dustyelbow]

Paul is much more than I realize

Thank you GrandHustle.

You provide the seed, I water this seed you give, but God gives the INCREASE.

Which I will delve into below.

Certainly you have stirred up my FAITH which has become much deeper in understanding.

Now I have a better understanding of Paul and the WHY he did what he DID. It has become much clearer for me and I can easily make the translation to why Paul and the disciples emphasized "Work with your HANDS and be CONTENT"

A little inside information first.

Paul like Jesus, was used in early African american history as an inspiration which they did GREAT works that the WORLD THEN was astonished by and COULD NOT DENY giving our RACE credit.

One of these works include making something similar to what was FOUND in Egypt by archeologist and chemist who could not UNDERSTAND and DESPARATELY tried to figure out how the ancient Egyptians made it themselves. But a FAITHFUL black man among us in America FIGURED IT OUT with his OWN HANDS and HE considered PAUL the Apostle a GREAT SCHOLAR. The world compared this CREATION similar to what the EGYPTIANS did in the PAST and were TRYING to have him REVEAL how he DID it.

This is just a piece of what I learned from our HISTORY and I dont want to go into detail because YOU TOO if you wish to no MORE about the ancestors should DO YOUR OWN STUDY. From that point on I do not KNOCK or FIND FAULT in anyone believing in the Bible or any other form of BELIEFS.

I dont care about WORKS entirely but they do come from FAITH.

Paul too studied the FATHERS his ancestors and was ZEALOUS over their TRADITIONS. But he still criticized aspects of those TRADITIONS in relationship to HIS PEOPLE at that TIME.


Back to Paul

Saul's life as "an insolent man" was changed completely when he was shown mercy and became the "chosen vessel" of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Timothy 1:12, 13) Energies that had motivated participation in the stoning of Stephen and other attacks on Jesus' disciples were turned to entirely different objectives when Saul became the Christian apostle Paul. Jesus evidently saw desirable traits in Saul.

So let me put my spin.

I would question the "Christian" apostle Paul part. Where did Paul say he was Christian?

Ok. Paul ie Saul admits he was a "rude" or "insolent" man. He did not say he was a "murderer".

But.

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

So Saul and his bloodletting men (perhaps they were ROMANS since GrandHustle pointed out and Paul himself admit he was a Roman citizen) tried to persecute the Church beyond belief.

Meaning even though DEATH or MURDER was NOT DIRECTLY or INTENTIONALLY on Saul's MIND, he STILL wanted to SQUASH and SUBDUE this Church and make them ADMIT to its SHAME to him, Roman empire and Jerusalem rule.

In effect this was based on Saul's FREEWILL.

Because of his ZEALOUS belief in the WRONG of the Church, it caused DEATH indirectly, not of his own HANDS but through HIS PURSUITS.

Once

Said Jesus: "This man [Saul] is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel."-Acts 9:15.

Paul later admitted that his former CONDUCT he did it in IGNORANCE.

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So what does this mean for me.

Well I look at it today as this. I zealously talk about the ancestors and how their lives affected us today. I talk about Africa and it meaning. I talk about the world and its meaning.

But I ZEALOUSLY want a CELLPHONE. I ZEALOUSLY want a DIAMOND necklace or ring. If not me MY GIRL wants THESE THINGS.

Where do some of the components or resources come from?

AFRICA. Congo. Sierra Leone. South Africa, etc.

What is happening over there?

WAR. STRIFE. SOCIAL DISASTER. DEATH. DESTRUCTION. HOPELESSNESS. SADNESS.

Remember Oprah, did a special on BLACK MEN in Africa and RAPE RAPE RAPE.

Am I thinking about THIS when I ZEALOUSLY WANT THESE THINGS.

No.

But the big question is am I indirectly CONSENTING TO THEM IF I ZEALOUSLY WANT THEM?

The answer is YES. No excuse.

How am I CONSENTING?

I ZEALOUSLY WANT A DIAMOND RING and a CELLPHONE. If not for me but for my GIRL, my FAMILY, my FRIEND still the answer is YES.

Guess what THESE ARE NOT FROM OUR HANDS. This is not WORKS from our HAND.

Am I IGNORANT for not CHOOSING TO KNOW?

Like Paul said, you are your OWN JUDGE. I cannot decide this. Paul through his testimony came to this conclusion.

Am I am murderer?

Paul did not say he was, and I dont believe I am, but I do CONSENT to MURDER OPPRESSION etc when I buy these products because I DO IT ZEALOUSLY IN IGNORANCE. SIN works in ME as Paul said.


From the book of ACTS 2

36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

All the house of Israel, meaning even though they did not directly crucify Jesus they CONSENTED to it.

Paraphrase
All of America and the world , meaning even though we did not crucify trouble Africans in the Congo Sierra Leone and South Africa directly but we did CONSENT to it.

37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Street ministers, you cannot decide who is saved and who isnt. I cant even DECIDE that. Only if someone comes and ASK YOU TO BE SAVED. The people have to use their FREEWILL in this matter.

38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

After the people ASKED out of their own FREEWILL and CONCERN, Peter RESPONDED to it. Their FAITH as Jesus puts it MADE THEM WELL.

39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Even Paul said this is a evil age. I wonder if things really CHANGED.

41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Received his words. But first the people ASKED. A good lesson if I was a STREET DISCIPLES.

42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43: And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

They realized how DESTRUCTIVE their ZEALOUS DESIRES really WERE. They saw the FEAR of what they were CONSENTING too.

44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They realized that their goods did not bring PEACE. So they sold them to make PEACE with ALL.

46: And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Having FAVOR or PEACE with all PEOPLE. Can I say this WORLD and the movers and shakers inside it have FAVOUR with all PEOPLE in all CONTENTMENT. Paul mention you can be ZEALOUS but in a GOOD THING.

But I guess this is a FIRM TEST of FAITH. To give up your GOODS and POSSESSIONS and LIVE OFF FAITH. Sell your goods for the MONEY which you can buy food is no problem. That is what Jesus said and did and that is what PAUL did through SELF-INFLICTED SUFFERRING.

Paul gave up his PRIVILEDGE position (since he an authoritarian BACKGROUND) and was EAGAR to serve the POOR.

Yes. Amen.

No wonder he survived all the SUFFERING he went through from his own countrymen at sea on the land etc.

Our ancestors gave up their FORMER lives in Africa (still long for it, because they had FAITH) and their LIFE in America for FAITH (faith in the new generation to bring us freedom).

They too SURVIVED all the SUFFERING.

To me its not surprising that many of our ancestors (American-born) (generation) shortly after Reconstruction and before that time was making all kinds of discoveries and such for our RACE for this NATION and the WORLD. They had strong FAITH.

Today. We face different THINGS but the same FREEWILL within US exist.

Not giving up and this GIFT is STILL up for grabs.

If PAUL was meant for 'ruthless' EUROPEANS they FAILED in his TEACHING MISERABLY.

I read and seen more SUCCESS with PAUL in our RACE and in others TOO.

 

[Angela22]

Everything the Son said and did wasn't written down, and there was some that was written, that had been lost. Also, sometimes it's just a matter of how one quotes another, which wasn't always exactly to how it was stated at first hand. It all depends.

Paul would never lie on the Son; he was His servant, and the Son spoke straight to him! There's much to learn from his letters to the churches, and all faithful should take to heart what he wrote because he was blessed of the KING on High. He preached the salvation of the Son in His sacrifice, as one truly devoted, and spoke on His resurrection from the dead and the promises of the KING to all willing to hear so that they'd be believing and saved.

He's baptized, preached, taught us of prophecy, brought up fine servants to the King, and let it be known that he only did so much, while it was the Son's compassion and mercy that brought us to redemption; there was no room to lie in anything he's given to his own and future generations.