Discussion in 'AACOOLDRE' started by AACOOLDRE, Nov 17, 2016.


    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Jul 26, 2001
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    By Andre Austin author of Lukewarm: the temperature of Justice

    Six months ago I started writing a series of three 1 page memos stating that the term Lukewarm was a balance between the hot and cold passions of sin based on Stoic philosophy.

    In this age of information you just can’t make a statement without hard concrete formalize proofs with a hypothesis backed up with input data. Well having the ability to compile data and organize and improve upon to present in a clear fashion I came up with the idea to explore the binary presentation of compare and contrasting that is used to describe the Lukewarm church. So here is a list of all the negative attributes and their opposite effects of Lukewarm Laodicea:

    Wretched (distress, deplorable, or miserable)

    Pitiful (unhappy/miserable)




    Coin Money

    The last three are easily explained by historians who noted that Laodicea:

    Rich due to stockpile of Gold and their garment industry and medical school for the blind.

    Vision was correct, Lukewarm is a pun for Look and people traveled to their city for salve.

    Clothes a highly sought after Black wool from sheep that was glossy brought in big revenue.

    Coin Money they minted their own coins but needed to buy pure gold from the Emperor/God

    While conducting research on the Stoics I read at least three examples of the terms Wretched and Unhappy being applied to his teachings on the subject of caring and compassion in Epictetus Discourses. The book of Revelations was written during the time of Emperor Domitian was assassinated in 96AD. Domitian banished Epictetus in 93AD and Epictetus said that he was not unhappy because he was in exile. Epictetus was a former slave to Epaphroditus the black secretary to Nero and Domitian. Epaphroditus is mentioned in the NT. One time he beat Epictetus and broke his leg while allegedly smiling. The smile came before the beating because he can’t keep a smile and say thank you sir may I have another while your leg is dislocated. This is more like the NT of turning the other cheek. The Stoics had no zeal/passion to return evil for evil. Didn’t mean to get off on a tangent. Now back to these attributes.

    Wretched and Pitiful applies to the Lukewarm church not having hot-heart or cold-heat passions/zeal towards doing sinful deeds or not returning them. Because both sides are negative the only option is to agree that Lukewarm is a positive temperature of balance, Justice of your mind not resorting to doing a sinful deed. Keep in mind that everything being said of Laodicea are in reality just the opposite so Hot/Cold have to be both negative or both positive. The Stoics taught that a stick was either straight or bent and that the temperature to be in was warm-the degree of the soul.

    Two Christian historians and philosophers (Saint Augustine & Thomas Aquinas confirm my observations of linking Wretched and Pitiful with Passions. Thomas Aquinas wrote Summa Theologica:

    Question 34: Article 1 reply obj. 3

    Of the goodness and Malice of Pleasures

    “Prudence and virtue are more concerned with operations and passions”.

    The number one goal of the Stoic was to live in virtue and they thought it best by a suppression of Hot and cold passion of sins.

    Question 24: Article 3; obj. 3

    Of Good and Evil in the Passions of the Soul

    “Augustine says that passion of pity is obedient is bestowed without violating right, as when the poor are relieved, or the penitent forgiven. But nothing that is obedient to reason lessens the moral good. I answer that, since the Stoics held (Cicero Tusculan 3:4) that every passion is evil, they consequently held that every passion of the soul lessens the goodness of an act”.

    Aquinas should have read Discourses when it is reported that Those who go wrong we should pardon and treat with compassion (Book 1, 18, 6-8 and Book 1:28.9-10).

    Augustine says: “And what is compassion but a fellow-feeling for another’s misery (unhappiness/distress), which prompts us to help him if we can” (City of God Book 9:5

    In Article 4 Aquinas states:

    “Augustine says that pity pertains to virtue…that shame is praiseworthy passion. Therefore some passions are good or evil according to its species”.

    If I had known this 6 months ago I would have had all the necessary tools to form a 360 degree circle of defense of my three memos. However, in the world of academia they are not concerned about the truth but explanation and citations step by step at how you arrived at it. This is called a formal proof or verification.

    So lets enter into the gates of The City of God Book 9:4 to see what my brother Augustine had to say about the Stoics and passion.

    “The opinion of the Stoics and that of other philosophers regarding mental passions and perturbations (Disturbance of Equilibrium/Balance), for both parties agree in maintaining that the mind and reason of the wise man are not subject to these…for what difference does it make whether goods or advantages be the better name, while the Stoic no less than the peripatetic (Platonists) is alarmed at the prospect of losing them, and while, though they name them differently, they hold them in like esteem….And thus the mind in which this resolution is well grounded suffers no perturbations to prevail with it in opposition to reason, even though they assail the weaker parts of the soul; and not only so, but it rules over them, and, while it refuses its consent and resists them, administers a reign of virtue. Such a character is ascribed to Eneas 4:449 by Virgil when he says,

    “he stands immovable by tears

    Nor tenderest words with pity hears”

    The stoic definition of apathetic is to accept where you are to seek virtue in the place and rank your in. Cast down your buckets of virtue where you are. Their followers were to be indifferent and not to vent to those who take advantage of you just make sure you stand firm in your mind of balance towards virtue.

    Augustine plays down the compassion of the Stoic Cato the younger fear of be shipwreck to go see his brother who was very sick. He never names him only by innuendo. But lets not get it twisted because not all Stoic Philosophers acted in this manner when it came to those who were sick. The stereotype of a Stoic was like Spock (A Vulcan/Ptah) on Star trek to emotions. Ptah is the discover of fire the substance of god and man. Lets take the Stoic Cato the Younger. When Cato’s brother Caepio got sick and died “upon this occasion, he was thought to have showed himself more a fond brother than a philosopher, not only in the excess of his grief, bewailing and embracing the dead body, but also in the extravagant expenses of the funeral” (Lives of the noble Grecians and Romans By Plutarch) Now after the funeral he went back to being a Stoic which was “inflexible temper, unmoved by passion, and firm in everything…and habituated himself to go bareheaded in the hottest and the coldest weather”. It was all about the excess and deficiency of heat or cold that leads to destruction the Stoics taught. The ancient Egyptians taught that justice was the balance between excess and deficiency ; and that you had to balance your heart towards Tefnut-maat.

    It’s my opinion that Lukewarm and Tefnut-Maat are the same things.



    The stoics taught that the way matter is organized to form an individual object; in stoic physics (influenced by ancient Egyptians, Hippocrates and Anaxagoras) a physical ingredient (Pneuma: air or breath, which informs the matter. They taught that the breath of the soul was warm and to drink warm water not cold.

    The Stoics did not seek to extinguish emotion but to prevent it from engaging in sin.


    Ethics and virtues

    The ancient Stoics are often misunderstood because the terms they used pertained to different concepts in the past than they do today. The word "stoic" has come to mean "unemotional" or indifferent to pain, because Stoic ethics taught freedom from "passion" by following "reason". The Stoics did not seek to extinguish emotions; rather, they sought to transform them by a resolute "askēsis" that enables a person to develop clear judgment and inner calm.[19] Logic, reflection, and concentration were the methods of such self-discipline.

    Borrowing from the Cynics, the foundation of Stoic ethics is that good lies in the state of the soul itself; in wisdom and self-control. Stoic ethics stressed the rule: "Follow where reason leads." One must therefore strive to be free of the passions, bearing in mind that the ancient meaning of "passion" was "anguish" or "suffering",[20] that is, "passively" reacting to external events, which is somewhat different from the modern use of the word. A distinction was made between pathos (plural pathe) which is normally translated as passion, propathos or instinctive reaction (e.g., turning pale and trembling when confronted by physical danger) and eupathos, which is the mark of the Stoic sage (sophos). The eupatheia are feelings that result from correct judgment in the same way as passions result from incorrect judgment.

    The idea was to be free of suffering through apatheia (Greek: ἀπάθεια) or peace of mind (literally, "without passion"),[21] where peace of mind was understood in the ancient sense—being objective or having "clear judgment" and the maintenance of equanimity in the face of life's highs and lows.

    For the Stoics, reason meant not only using logic, but also understanding the processes of nature—the logos, or universal reason, inherent in all things. Living according to reason and virtue, they held, is to live in harmony with the divine order of the universe, in recognition of the common reason and essential value of all people