Black Spirituality Religion : Satan Dwells Within You.

[Sekhemu]

Astro what you call evil can also be called inbalanced. What is your point in trying to prove that a "Devil" exist. Is there any physical evidence to support your assertion?

Black people have suffered long enough from the boogey man. Once again. There is balanced and inbalanced energy. The information I posted earlier in this thread is not purely based on reading books.Your long drawn out disertation attempts to intellectualize a topic based on belief. Intellectualizing on spiritiuality is an oxymoron.

THen again, what more can one expect from a christian viewpoint

 

[Astro]

The devil in you

Ahh, Brother Sekhemu you chose to show up, I appreciate your coming forward to engage me in a dialogue on this subject. I don't know how far this will go, whatever the case you're coming forth is the sign you are a true warrior, I honor your being forthright.

I would be pleased to share a meal with you someday and good times. Men disagreeing on a point have no need to be at odds with one another, we are simply discussing a subject deserving more than a passing phooey. In replying to you I want it to be clearly understood there's nothing personal in my intent. You've indicated "what you call evil can also be called inbalanced. What is your point in trying to prove that a "Devil" exists. Is there any physical evidence to support your assertion?" It gives me unspeakable joy knowing you took time to make a statement and ask a question, "is there any physical evidence?" I look forward to this being a friendly and healthy exchange. I would ask something of you in this exercise, if I refer to a case(s) would you be so kind to read some material to be aware of what I speak. Likewise, if you make any references I will read and get back to you with an honest evaluation. That's fair wouldn't you say?

Brother Sekhemu, when reading my posts was there any material I pointed to? Did I point to any real life events wherefrom you could derive information to relate to my position? I believe I made it clear my point was to establish that there were hard evidences that discarnate presences do exist. I cited one case I had direct contact with that occurred in Los Angeles, a case that resulted in an controlled study wherein a discarnate entity did manifest. That's only one of many substantive investigations into this subject. There are many substantive reports wherein carefully documented observations of psychic events have been reported that we may know there are non-corporeal beings who enter and impact the lives of people in our reality. My assertion, which any reasonable person would grant is that, if we have a broad range of solid evidence of discarnate presences entering into mankind's experience, it's reasonable to consider a being known as Satan also exists? That doesn't strain any principle whereby reasonable judgments are made, wouldn't you agree? I ask, if you were to travel to another world and see an animate being, wouldn't it be reasonable there would be others of its kind? That doesn't require much to conclude nor is it being presumptuous by entertaiining the idea there would be others of its kind, wouldn't you agree? Therefore, using that same manner of thought, is it unreasonable, since there are hard evidences of discarnate entities existing that Satan might also exist? If not, why not?

Brother Sekhemu, I'm not quite sure what you are speaking of when indicating "what you call evil can also be called inbalanced." That doesn't factor in my mind in any understandable way. What do you mean by that? To me, being imbalanced has to do with individuals being in slanted states of mind, which may lead to distortions in their behavior. etc. Beubg a former High Control Parole Agent, having supervised men, a few who are now on California's Death Row, Lawrence Bittaker and Oscar Gates, I know a bit about evil in men's being. I've also been a Child Protective Services Social Worker, I've seen little children who've been burned, bones broken, sexually abused up close and personal. I know of evil in men's behavior. I also have an MA in Clinical Psych and been a Therapist, I figture I have some working knowledge wouldn't you think on personality and dysfunctional behavior, some due to evil intent. If you are speaking of nature, evil is not commonly understood to be an aspect of expressions in nature, ony to personality, which only conscious living beings possess, at least as far as I know. Anyway, you might want to explain what you mean by imbalance, I'd be interested in reading about what you are referring to. Other than that, as indicated I believe I've already offered some solid items interested persons can research to understand my point. I also must admit being a little surprised you would ask if I had anything substantive to offer with what's already been written that's easy to check out to verify. Alll anyone else has offered in this string are ideas, none bvearing any substance as to the reality of spiritual powers.

Brother Sekhemu I ask that you run your search engine for The Entity, that will be the first evidence I offer of proof that discarnate beings do exist. Any questions you have I will gladly respond to. I had personal contact with the principle investigator of that case, Dr. Elizabeth Cooley, and as I've indicated several times, the research was the only controlled study where a discarnate entity did manifest. That's only one of many I can offer. What might you have to offer? I'm very open minded and willing to listen. I'll look forward to your reply and thank you again for coming forth. I respect you for that. Oh, by the way, this subject has nothing to do with black people, it's about human beings being exposed to terrifying presences, it has nothing to do with the white man, so please, give yourself a break from interpreting everything in those terms.


Looking forward to your reply,

Astro\

p.s. Oh, one more thing, there's nothing being intellectualized in my presentation. I'm pointing to real events, documented cases whose findings are of presences that are not material as we are. You're just throwing stuff out, appearing to be unable to correctly evaluate what you are criticizing. Brother Sekhemu this is no elementary school level conversation. If you're going to discuss things with me, you'll be needing to be accurate in your assertions, otherwise the talk will deminish into a meaningless collection of sayings. Let's label things as they are, rather than as it pleases our biases. Okay?

Astro what you call evil can also be called inbalanced. What is your point in trying to prove that a "Devil" exist. Is there any physical evidence to support your assertion?

Black people have suffered long enough from the boogey man. Once again. There is balanced and inbalanced energy. The information I posted earlier in this thread is not purely based on reading books.Your long drawn out disertation attempts to intellectualize a topic based on belief. Intellectualizing on spiritiuality is an oxymoron.

THen again, what more can one expect from a christian viewpoint

 

[Sekhemu]

"Brotha" astro.

Could it be that you are imbalanced my friend.The Western approach to the spirit world tends to be very left lobe oriented. Although you gave information on spiritual entities, can you actually say having a clinical psychology background makes you objective about metaphysical matters? It seems to me that you are claiming expertise in both fields here.

While I will agree with you that there is "hard evidence" of discarnate precensces exist", and that indeed they do and can manifest... at will. However it is appears you are being a little presumptive. Who and what are you using as a reference for this "range of Solid evidence"? Are you talking simple/primitive society, or contemporary western man.

If you are refering to primitive man, you would be hard pressed to find any empirical evidence supporting an archetype of an evil incarnate entity. Even more complex spirit belief systems, such as the medu neter. The God Set. brother of Asar, was also venerated. Mind you this is the same God that early christians Identified as the pre-cursor to Satan. In Egyptian cosmology, Set was never destroyed, in fact his he played an integral part in the whole notion of Maat or balance of the universe.

And it is from Maat that I derive my sense of balance and imbalance. Medicines such as herbs can be used to heal or kill. It all depends on adminstering the proper measurement/balance or dosage.

It is obvious we have two different "perspectives" on the topic of the "Devil", yours being western and mainstream, although you say you have had some experience with entities, and mine being holistic and cosmic, in addition to being practioner of Traditional Afrikan belief "system". So I have a more than an ample working and overstanding of the spirit realm. Probably more than you would be comfortable coming into contact with.

As far as books, what I have experienced was not taught to me from books and I would be foolish to give you a list of books if you have not embraced the overstanding of the connection to your ancestors as an integral, living and vital component of existence on the physical plain. Or in fact, the role they play in the relation to the creator God/Goddess. In other words I'm not gonna offer you a resource for the purpose of some academic excursion.

Ashe bruh

 

[ANGELIC SOUL]

whew loooooonnnnnnnnnngggggg post!

Note! I said I do not believe in a DEVIL, but evil spirits I do believe are real.
All of the films that you have listed in this post, I have seen. Do I believe it was the DEVIL no, do I believe that other "material, spiritual matter" is real, yes! There is NO evidence that supports with either of these movies, that it was the DEVIL, the Exorcist lightly touched upon the DEVIL due to the parts of the catholic priests, however, the "being" within the child was considered many DEMONS. I do not subscribe to the belief of a CHRISTIAN DEVIL. I believe it was fabricated to keep christians in check. I do believe that with the light comes the dark, and demons or evil entities are in fact very real.

Once again...... no devil.

After walking amongst the shadows in your dreams, step into the light...

Shadow walker

In viewing the responses received thus far I thought I would make another comment on this thread. In summarizing the opinions rendered thus far, two lines of reasoning appear. These fall into two realms, of belief this entity known as Satan exists, the other nay saying.

Among the nay sayers are curt dismissals in coincidence with a concise scholarly etymological survey of the development of the idea of Satan from an astrological perspective. In these frames you see what's common throughout the world, a mixture of philosophy, idiosyncracy and cultural bias coloring the views. It goes without saying, this community being Afro-centric there would be references indicating Satan being created by a religious institution to control the world, with a particular emphasis on African or other conquered peoples. This frame of reference is not unique however, in any culture whose belief systems deny the existence of this being are accounts that are peculiar to their people. Therefore, in denials based on people's philosophies or belief systems you see an idiosyncratic view, each taking their views as if they bear credibility for all mankind. This alone deminishes any credibility these views may have, for instance the Catholic Church creating Satan to enhance its influence and power. The idea of a pre-eminent demonic entity existed long before the Catholic Church came into being. If the member who presented the scenario merely meant the Catholic Church utilized the concept to its advantage he would also need to consider what is at the root of this entity or idea becoming a subject that has met mankind's concern. No doubt, in every area of human endeavor there can be conditions from which ideations of contrary powers will develop, some attributing these to fear, mankind's attempt to comprehend the unknown, a need to account for failed works, misbehavior, etc. What can derive out of the imagation, based on one's experiences can be phenomenal, nevertheless for those who dismiss the idea of an entity of this kind will need to consider whether there is a kernel of truth in the maze of ideas that exist in the world on this question. Like a tiny seed precipitating into a mighty oak, the enormity of the tree and its complexity belies the simplicity of the truth of its beginning, the seed nor the tree give any hint of the reality of the other.

With the etymological explanation from an astrological perspective we are viewing a philosphical frame in context of words associated as root sources from which the word Satan and its meaning eventually developed. The same is true with this idea as the other, it casts a frame on the subject that renders an air of veracity to the perspective. However, when distilled you see the same with this as with the other, an effort to deduce Satan into terms that are favorable to human comprehension. If indeed, Satan is only an idea then, among the barrel full of ideas there are on this subject in the world this is as good as any other. The intermingling of an etymological survey of the development of the word Satan, at least as it came into being along the lines the writer considered in context of an astrological perspective. Again, as indicated this is a philosophical note, couched in a semi-factual etymological survey. None of what I've seen seriously takes into consideration whether such an entity exist. Observe the following.

Not one of the posts gave any mention at all to the idea there is a non-material reality. The posts are soulless in the sense they give no regard to anything other than what men think of their experience in a material frame. On being driven to consider these same individuals will be forced to deal with material that indicates there is a non-material reality wherein conscious intelligences employing inestimable powers to interact with mankind. Not one post that decries the idea of Satan's existence being a viable possibility ventures to attempt to deal in an area where what's known of immaterial beings has confronted mankind. In that regard they are naked and bankrupt. There are the flowery scholarly philosophical declarations of Satan being no more than an idea, a tool created in some folks minds to capitalize on other's ignorance. I challenge these individuals to consider, first, whether there is a non-material reality and, second, whether there are entities therein who interact with mankind. The first exercise in this regard has to do with a situation I happened to have had contact with the principle investigator, the case of Carlotta Moran. This incident occured in Los Angeles, it was memoralized in a book and film entitled The Entity. This is a true story. I'll not say what it involved, I'm bringing it up challenging those who read this post to rent the video or survey material on the web that records this woman's experience. I refer to The Entity as one among a multitude of other things to point to of incidents indicating there is a spiritual or extra dimensional reality. Two others, although each was dramatized, The Exorcist and the Amityville Horror were true stories. The Exorcist incident involved a young boy, the movie had aspects that didn't happen, however what did happen was as astonishing as the fantasy that was featured in the film. And, while The Amityville Horror was not a notable film, indeed the Lutz family, after having moved into a newly purchased home, moved out in 28 days.

In concluding at this point, my good friends, you may joke or philosophize, however I promise by the time this is finished you will acknowledge there is a non-material reality. I have given a few references for you to take a peek at, let's see what you do with them. Keep in mind I have not said Satan was a reality, I perceive there is an entity of this kind. My purpose at this point is to eliminate the sneering statements indicating it's not possible such an entity exists. The material you review, if you take the time, will be challenging to any claim no spiritual or extra-dimensional reality exists. Once crossing the bounds to admitting such a realm exists then you have to ask yourself, of what is known of this reality, have you sold yourself short on the possibilities it represents. I'll be looking and commenting on your posts, checking to see if you've looked at the material and working with you to synthesize the information. As indicated, I have some very interesting things to share concerning the Carlotta Moran Entity case, what was involved in that situation had nothing to do with the planets or people slowly coming to develop the idea an evil entity like Satan existed or found it convenient to create the idea. No, we're talking reality here folks, no jokes or stupid ideas to ridicule. I have spoken, let's see how you deal with my challenge.

.

 

[ANGELIC SOUL]

Challenge huh?

Astro,

I agree that we live in a world that has many vails. We are amongst them in the middle. More often than not those vails get lifted or penetrated. I agree with you on that. It seems to me that you have taken my response and narrowed it down to nothing. The post was on a question that someone might ask you, I responded to THAT question alone. It had nothing to do in my opinion on paranormal experiences or DEMONS or EVIL ENTITIES. I feel the challenge is off the topic of the post. However, I have added my lil tib bit and I still will stand by my beliefs that what we consider paranormal experiences are very real, in what ever form it wishes to come in. However, I do not believe that a DEVIL is the KING or co-creator of such things. I believe that we are all apart of this world and its may vails, spirits, humans, animals, energy, blah, blah, blah!! Then we are all going to be affected by each other. Sometimes evil slips in and we experience this nasty entity called evil.

I don't believe in the christian concept of a devil.


Shadow Walker....

As indicated I will be monitoring this forum to take note of responses to my challenge. Keep in mind this is not forwarded with any negative intent, it is a challenge. I am challenging notions posted by a number of members, whose comments deny the existence of Satan. It's not my point to argue that point at this level of the discussion. The first aspect of the challenge is to destroy the foundation of notions by members who poo poo the idea Satan exists without addressing intances where there are hard evidences there is a spiritual or extra-dimensional reality. We are third dimensional beings. Some appearing to be inclined to casually dismiss other possibilities of conscious existence while others atttempt to explain them away by pontificating elegantly. Therefore, the initial purpose of this challenge is to make a mockery of ideas that give no place to what is on open display in humankind's experience everyday. You have the same thing with people poo pooing UFO's, despite the fact of the accumulated material indicating these craft are in our skies. In fact, in Los Angeles, one of the most spectacular cases of all time occurred, yet the average person knows nothing about it.

While I may appear testy in this campaign, it is a frame that's sometimes needed when dealing with inculcated ideas. For instance, Sekhemu's "People who come out of a savage and hostile environment i.e. caves and deserts, need to be shown how to behave. This is the purpose of religion! Phooey to a Devil" Then we have Aqil's "Saturn remains better known for his more malefic contributions to mankind, and eventually became the "Devil," which, in Christian dogma, is the personification of evil...", Lady Bastet's "I don believe in an actual devil. However, I do believe in evil. The devil is a christian concept, of which I am not. Although, I do feel that we can create our own devils within us if we are not aligned to our creator," along with a few others. As indicated, in no posts have there been any hint or the slightest reference to the world of paranormal experience. If I were to organize a seminar on Satan, whether it be to support or deny the idea of his existence the discussion would have no value without speaking to paranormal phenomena and trying to offer an explanation for it.

It's nonsensical to deny the "possibility" of an entity with a name existing when there are stacks and stacks of material indicating there is a broader range to reality than the eye can see or the mind comprehend. When looking at posts like those I've mentioned there's is no sense of appreciation that there are people in the world who've had terrifying experiences at the hand of extraordinary presences. I can hardly believe people can fix their mouths to poo poo away something that's very real and well documented, at least as far as there being indications of a broader reality than we can readily perceive. You can't dismiss the possibility of the existence of Satan when, everyday, there are reports of spirit presences, or what appear to be spirit presences being experienced by people. As indicated, I was privey to one of the most astonishing cases in modern times, the Carlotta Moran matter. This woman's horrifying experience, along with the book and movie entitled The Entity, was also reported in the Los Angeles Times. The case is documented impeccably, in an investigation where, yes indeed, a non-material being did manifest and was seen, and reported by individuals who are sober minded and credible. On considering the mountains and mountains of material on paranormal experience it's a far gone conclusion there are unusual presences that emerge into our reality that are extremely curious in their character/nature.

For those who are on the ready to deny Satan as a reality there are manifestations that defy what is commonly known as third dimensional reality to consider. There is a preponderance of hard evidences of beings other than ourselves possessing consciousness and purpose. These entities enter into humankind's experience, not only through the mind gate, but also by effecting physical reality. There are aromas, cold spots, physical contact, etc. by immaterial beings. If taking time to review material in this area I would expect folks will acknowledge this is so, if not be counted as blind to what's happening in the world.

If a man can't see the reality of a paranormal reality how can he or she speak with any sense of authority of there being no consummate evil spirit? If there are actual non-material presences who mess around in our reality, who are we to mock the idea there may be a hierarchy in there reality whose magistrate is this entity men refer to as the devil?

I'm waiting and watching what will come of folks looking into these matters and commenting. Don't come with any psychological explanations, I have an MA in Psych and saw that game played on Carlotta Moran, "oh she's having hysterical reactions, oh she's schizophrenic, oh she didn't eat her Cheerios three days out of last week<' until it became apparent she was experiencing something out of this world. The next post I will write the police report from her boyfriend's arrest. It will have the LAPD reference number. The man thought he would knock whatever was raping Carlotta off with a chair, the chair went right through whatever had control of her and hit Carlotta. Her kids thought the boyfriend had attacked Ms. Moran, so the police were called. In the end, which this is a quote from the report, the boyfriend told the police in the arrest interview "...she's got something there...something there with her. I tell you she's in trouble...she's in bad trouble. Something's got hold of her. Something. I don't know what it is, but... Carlotta is in trouble." No no my friends, no planets spinning, no people creating things in their mind, no phooey, nothing of this kind exists, don't be blind, be knowledgeable. If not, meet my challenge, discount the fact there are tangible manifestations of evil presences in the world. Otherwise, consider your thoughts and your conversation, scripture says "Only a fool would say in his heart there is no God", the same may well be true for the existence of Satan. What I've seen so far gives me pause to reason this may be so in this forum, no one even giving the slight thought to what goes on all around, walking around, eyes wide open, seeing nothing in the world in which you live. Pitiful. I'll be checking out your replies to my challenge.