Jails / Prisons : Black People Working in Prisons

NeterHeru

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Jan 9, 2007
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DESTEE:

Sister, thank you very much for the clarity and response. You're right in that there is rarely just one relevant question to a discussion, but I guess that was the presumptuousness of my youth coming out--so I withdraw that previous question LOL! Also I apologize for implying you asked that question, for I thought this is what you were asking regarding the thread. Now I see your topic is more of an inquiry rather than statement.

I'm curious respecting this commentary you've made however:

"No Brother, i don't see it as problematic. It's just our reality. It's been our reality for hundreds of years ... Black Folk watching over other Black Folk. It's really more a symptom of our lack of industry, business, economic opportunity, etc., for our people. If Black People could offer other Black People good paying jobs, they'd probably have to get more white people to man their prisons. For that matter, if we could offer each other jobs, fewer of our people would resort to illegal activities (selling drugs)."

From what you're saying it seems implied that it is problematical for our people to watch over each other, as that dynamic appears to echo the "Headman" watching over the "field slaves," in order to report back to "massa" about their behavior. But what I'm curious about is do you see this same issue, which you say is not a problem, but a symptom of it (i.e. "lack of industry, business, economic opportunity, etc.") as dynamically being present or pervasive in say Black countries? That is, would you say this same dynamic, as you explained, equally applies to Jamaica, where more than 90% of the populace is Black and to them it's nothing having "Black Folk watching over other Black Folk."

To them this dynamic is quite normal and natural. In any case, I look forward to your response. Thanks in advance!
 

Destee

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NeterHeru said:
DESTEE:

Sister, thank you very much for the clarity and response. You're right in that there is rarely just one relevant question to a discussion, but I guess that was the presumptuousness of my youth coming out--so I withdraw that previous question LOL! Also I apologize for implying you asked that question, for I thought this is what you were asking regarding the thread. Now I see your topic is more of an inquiry rather than statement.

I'm curious respecting this commentary you've made however:

"No Brother, i don't see it as problematic. It's just our reality. It's been our reality for hundreds of years ... Black Folk watching over other Black Folk. It's really more a symptom of our lack of industry, business, economic opportunity, etc., for our people. If Black People could offer other Black People good paying jobs, they'd probably have to get more white people to man their prisons. For that matter, if we could offer each other jobs, fewer of our people would resort to illegal activities (selling drugs)."

From what you're saying it seems implied that it is problematical for our people to watch over each other, as that dynamic appears to echo the "Headman" watching over the "field slaves," in order to report back to "massa" about their behavior. But what I'm curious about is do you see this same issue, which you say is not a problem, but a symptom of it (i.e. "lack of industry, business, economic opportunity, etc.") as dynamically being present or pervasive in say Black countries? That is, would you say this same dynamic, as you explained, equally applies to Jamaica, where more than 90% of the populace is Black and to them it's nothing having "Black Folk watching over other Black Folk."

To them this dynamic is quite normal and natural. In any case, I look forward to your response. Thanks in advance!
Brother NeterHeru ... no need to apologize ... it's all good.

I guess i do imply that it is problematic, Black Folk watching over Black Folk, for white people.

Hmmmm ... let me see how to get out of this ... :wink:

The reason i don't want to focus on it being problematic, is because if we can fix some other things ... more important things ... this will fix itself. If we can begin loving ourselves and each other properly, take off the conditioning that's been put on us, then we'll do each other better. We'll be able to provide jobs for our people, where they may not have to work for white people in any direct way. If we had our own nation and such, with these mindsets, we'd not so quickly mistreat our own. So if we had to incarcerate some for breaking laws, we'd do it justly. There'd be no stories of plungers being inserted in the rectums of Black Men. There'd be no overwhelming mistreatment of us.

I realize that not all of us will comply, and we may still have some ugliness, but i can't believe ... if we would come to ourselves, our right minds ... treat each other properly, with the highest regard and respect ... that it would look anything like what they do to us.

I'm not familiar with the Jamaican prison system, and if those Sisters and Brothers mistreat their own. I surely hope not, but i know evidence abounds, regarding our ugly treatment of each other ... and again ... if this were corrected ... our watching each other in prisons systems, would not have to be the low down ugly thing we've come to know it to be.

Someone said that i have a utopian world view, and i do want and hope for the very best, for my people.

Hope i've answered your question, if not, let me know.

:heart:

Destee
 

NeterHeru

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Jan 9, 2007
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"Have you ever been robbed or assaulted?" Yes.

"Or had a family member murdered?" Yes.

"Would you want law enforcement involved or not?" Yes.

"If so, would you rather that person be black or white?" Certainly I want the person to be Black.

"If black, would that person be working for you or the oppressors system on the oppressors behalf?" Undoubtedly they'd be working for you, since working in this capacity is also working for their self.

All of the above questions are pertinent to our people's survival and prosperity in this country. In fact, the essence of the Integrationist and Civil Rights Movements in America were manifested in our people getting government jobs; these occupations are the tools and mechanisms that control the society we currently reside within.

Indeed, perhaps we ought to ask ourselves would we prefer our 21st century situation to be equal to our situation in 19th century America, where virtually none of us held any government jobs--specifically law enforcement. Still maybe we ought to ask ourselves would David Walker, Martin R. Delaney, and Booker T. Washington all feel or believe that our people's condition in 19th century America--in terms of government jobs--is better than our people's condition in the 21st century.

ROARIN1:

I'm curious brother if you feel your sister is engaging in traitorous acts toward our people, by being a police officer? I am only asking because you said "working in amerikkkan law enforcement is as a traitorous act for any of our people." If you do feel she is betraying our people have you informed her of how you feel and what does she think about it?

Also I know you were addressing Mrron with this point, but it does appear that you are contradicting yourself with the following statement: "I never said YOU were, YOU called attention to that." I'm confused since according to you any of our people working in America's law enforcement is a traitorous act, so how could you not be specifically addressing Mrron, and anyone else for that matter, knowing he is a law enforcement officer?

Additionally how could he call attention to himself being a traitor when you particularized the fact that "any" of our people are engaging in traitorous acts, so long as they work for America's law enforcement? I'd appreciate it if you could clarify precisely what you are saying, because as it shows presently you are either saying all of our people are traitors for working as law enforcement officers in America, or some are not like your sister who you qualify as not hating because you "know her heart."

Yet this latter qualification does not absolve or nullify your contention that she is just as much a traitor as anyone else who is Black and in America's law enforcement. In any case, please clarify thanks.
 

NeterHeru

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Jan 9, 2007
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DESTEE:

WoW! Sister thank you very much for the very timely response, it's certainly appreciated. I completely understand your explanation and it is quite ideal. Also the dynamic you described cannot apply to Black countries since they're working in law enforcement and corrections for themselves, not anyone else and certainly not for white people.

As well, although I have this same ideal in mind, I'm too much of a Capricorn to settle for the ideal (lol), I want the reality. Unfortunately, as I see it, the only way for this ideal to become a reality is if we do precisely what we are doing now: working in governmental capacities to have some input in how American society should be governed. I say unfortunate because there are a lot of sisters and brothers, like you, who feel our people should not have government jobs, because it's too reminiscent of working for overseers on plantations.

Regardless, I can tell you from a purely analytical standpoint, our greatest problem as a people are not the police, but prosecutors. Police work for the government, like prosecutors, but unlike prosecutors police officers are directly at the mercy of prosecutors and not the other way around. So, in short, it would not matter how many of our people were arrested by law enforcement officers, because only prosecutors can determine who does and does not go to jail. And the fact that 98% (actually 97.5%) of all prosecutors are white men is not coincidental and wholly incidental to the disproportionate incarceration of our people.
 

Destee

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NeterHeru said:
DESTEE:

WoW! Sister thank you very much for the very timely response, it's certainly appreciated. I completely understand your explanation and it is quite ideal. Also the dynamic you described cannot apply to Black countries since they're working in law enforcement and corrections for themselves, not anyone else and certainly not for white people.
Brother NeterHeru ... you are so very welcome! One correction though, i don't mean to suggest that ugliness or mistreatment, can't or won't be inflicted upon us, by us. It is happening right now as we speak. While this is another something we must overcome, i think we need to get other people out of our mix, so we can more easily deal with each other. But you're right, in that, we would not be doing it for white people ... which would be a major improvement for us.


NeterHeru said:
As well, although I have this same ideal in mind, I'm too much of a Capricorn to settle for the ideal (lol), I want the reality. Unfortunately, as I see it, the only way for this ideal to become a reality is if we do precisely what we are doing now: working in governmental capacities to have some input in how American society should be governed. I say unfortunate because there are a lot of sisters and brothers, like you, who feel our people should not have government jobs, because it's too reminiscent of working for overseers on plantations.
Bless your sweet heart ... i'm a Capricorn too! :love:

I am by no means settling on the ideal, as i face the harsh realities every single day. This does not keep me from striving toward the ideal in my own coming and going, and encouraging others to do the same. I'm confident that we can reach such a place, in a relatively short of amount of time, if we were all trying to do our best toward that end.

Brother NeterHeru ... i'd like to invite you to join us during our online classes. We hold them right here in the community, in our own voice video chat. As a matter of fact, you are welcome to host your own class if you'd like! The reason i mention our classes is because during one of them, Brother OldSoul's class which is held every Wednesday @ 9 pm ET and every Sunday @ 12 pm ET, he taught us about being "response able" ... responsible. Being "response able" means that you must come up with a variety of different responses, for a given situation, and then when presented with the situation, choose carefully the best response. We should not be limited by one way to make our ideals realities. The task is too great for there to be only one way.

Now, i don't know why yall are feeling as though i'm saying our people shouldn't work in government jobs. I've not said that, and i'm not saying that. I'm of the opinion that working for them in any capacity, over working for us, is a problem. I don't care if it's teachers, doctors, or cab drivers. My push is for us to provide all of these services for ourselves. While this is ideal, i'm fully aware of our reality, and that we gotta do what we gotta do. So yes, let's take full advantage of being in these positions. Let's help our people all along the way, in whatever capacities we can. I love Judge Mathis! He is a part of the judicial system, in some entertainment kind of way, and he always keeps it real ... in my opinion ... as he speaks on the injustices of the system. He talks about how the sentences are different for Brothers, than white men. He points this out all the time, and seems sincerely concerned about our people locked up in prisons ... knowing, and saying loudly, that it's not done justly to a national audience. Yes, we can work within the system, using it to our advantage as best we can, pointing out its deficiencies, attempting to level the playing field ... but we must always realize ... we are working for the same government that built their wealth on the backs of our Ancestors, continually refusing to officially acknowledge this, by giving us reparations ... and there's only so much they're really going to let us do, to effect change. So we should simultaneously be trying to figure out a way, to have our own.


NeterHeru said:
Regardless, I can tell you from a purely analytical standpoint, our greatest problem as a people are not the police, but prosecutors. Police work for the government, like prosecutors, but unlike prosecutors police officers are directly at the mercy of prosecutors and not the other way around. So, in short, it would not matter how many of our people were arrested by law enforcement officers, because only prosecutors can determine who does and does not go to jail. And the fact that 98% (actually 97.5%) of all prosecutors are white men is not coincidental and wholly incidental to the disproportionate incarceration of our people.
I don't know Brother, i think it's all tainted. What if someone brought you a plate of food, and the plate is clearly filthy on one half of it, and clean on the other. Would you feel comfortable eating anything off of that plate?

That's kinda how i feel about their stuff ... let them keep it all ... for we will have our own.

:heart:

Destee
 
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