- Feb 22, 2004
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Oh I agree Therious.
Make no mind of what i quoted of you in the previous text and context.
That particular point of discontent was not directed at you.
I know even if it was,it's all g ...
Black People : Why Whites Honor Confederate Soldiers ??
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I know even if it was,it's all g ...
- Feb 22, 2004
- 4,074
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Brother Therious ... this isn't up for debate or negotiation, though I appreciate you sharing with me.
You must abide by the rules, or be suspended and/or banned. Personal attacks are not allowed, for any reason.
It is illogical (and desperate looking) to put ugly things Dominican personally on him, or ugly things African American personally on you.
Leaving the topic (as you did), making personal attacks, because you don't like another's opinion ... is a loss ... in the debate / discussion department.
We must strive to manifest the very best of interactions with our own people, especially when we disagree.
He, you, and everyone is entitled to share their opinion here respectfully, and no one has to like it ... you or me.
Brother Therious ... this is a warning ... and you're not promised any more.
As I said earlier, you've been with us a long time, and much of what you're doing now, has been allowed in the past ... but it is not allowed anymore.
I encourage you to read the New Higher Standards Required. If you have any questions, let me know.
Love You!
Destee
It is true that there is an over all consciousness of populous from specific locations in the world. It does not hold true for all persons from that country or location, but if that person exhibits those opinions, it is illogical not to recognize that.. What is desperate,Illogical,and inconceivable is expecting truth in a sea of censorship..if some one buys the what the Confederacy is selling, if they are Black,Mexican,Dominican.Asian,Eskimo,Afrikan,Biracial,Multi Racial, Suntanned,interracial dating or anything not redneck or Nazi. that person has problems and should be called out..rules are rules,but truth is truth..
Peace
It is true that there is an over all consciousness of populous from specific locations in the world. It does not hold true for all persons from that country or location, but if that person exhibits those opinions, it is illogical not to recognize that.I will debate what I wish,when i wish and don't need any forum moderator threatening me.What is desperate,Illogical,and inconceivable is expecting truth in a sea of censorship..if some one buys the what the Confederacy is selling, if they are Black,Mexican,Dominican.Asian,Eskimo,Afrikan,Biracial,Multi Racial, Suntanned,interracial dating or anything not redneck or Nazi. that person has problems and should be called out..rules are rules,but truth is truth..
Peace
Brother Therious ... it is unfortunate that you refuse to dialogue respectfully with your own people, but it's your choice.
It is your choice, and your consequence ... which is a 2 week suspension, beginning right now.
If you choose to return and continue doing the same, you will be banned permanently.
Much Love and Peace.
Destee
Brother Therious ... it is unfortunate that you refuse to dialogue respectfully with your own people, but it's your choice.
... which is a 2 week suspension, beginning right now.
Much Love and Peace.
Destee
Well, I feel almost vindicated. Almost.
I'm grudgin tho, and trying to find peace on that.
It's a challenge to try to speak peacefully with someone you so adamently disagree non-offensive, non-defensive, and non-aggressive level - and to one who is contrary to the very nature of what you feel and just and right. MLK is not my idol, and I consider him a bit 'weaker' than the more outspoken and aggressive MX. I want to learn from both of them - but I relate to and admire MX more.
Peace talking takes more time and patience and lacks the outward passion seen in more assertive and defensive tactics and modes of expression. It's easier to resort to maiming and cut down than to allow one to express a seemingly illogical, detrimental, or even dangerous thought - be it on a messaboard or in real life.
but like MX despised the tactics of MLK for dealing with the racist and the segregationists, he still sought to meet with him and learn something and keep an open mind for working together.
Same for MLK for MX. And that is worth learning... a challenge worthy.
This thread is so far my only interaction with you, but.......
you were given a choice and I'm sorry to see you chose the latter. I understand your passion for the subject, but in that passion you chose only to see one thing and disregarded what we really (or just me) was saying.
You made assumptions, and didn't allow for any corrections of those assumptions. The assumptions you made about me and my feelings regarding the confederacy are wrong.
And she can correct me if i am wrong, but i think you misconstrued blackeyes question.
I took her statement on the American flag to mean - does not the American flag have a history of racism and subjugation attached to it?
It represents the Europeans who came to country from Europe and fought to get their primary independence from Europe.
When they made the initial constitution and the stuff before it - we were not represented. We were slaves with no rights, or relegated to 2/3 of a person with no rights.
The American flag stands as testament to our nationality, but were no were in the makings of it nor were even considered.
So that how I understood her question in connection to the Confed flag.
That by no means says that we accept or like what the ancestors of the Confederate soldiers are trying to embrace.
Did you not read that I AGREE with what you and others have presented as the history of the Confed flag and what the Southern whites wish to undermine?
I agree with it, I understand it, but I don't really care.
I don't care because there is no way in hell we are going to go backward into slavery or jim crow again.
I don't even see how that is possible. The south 'rising again' does not scare me into a call of action because I can't fathom how they will 'rise' to the level of the 1850's or the 1950's.
It's too much of a different time and place now - with white populations dwindling, people all over the country trying to emulate our struggle for independence, with anti-American sentiment brooding all over the place, and rising social and economic power of the darks with the help and assistance of the whites.
We've come to far and know too much - how the hell are we going to massively backslide into where the South wants to go?
....... if indeed they do want us to go that way.... and you and others have not quite convinced me that the Southern whites wants to go back in time 60 or 160 years.
I understand they fight vehemently for power or to retain power and white privilege, but that doesn't necissarily mean they want to institute slavery and jim crow again... or that they will try.
Again, we (I) haven't 'bought' anything. just because we have not seen a reason to care about it doesn't mean we believe it.
I do look forward to your return. I know it's a challenge, but I hope it's one you are willing to partake and see another side instead of just your own.
I don't think there is censorship here necessarily but it does temper the passionate and perhaps more offending fervor on the matter.
An attempt to answer some of the question from Medusanegrita
medusanegrita:
so the DR has a social and economic strata that is based on race and skin color? That is sad. It is very much akin to the apartheid system in SA or the caste system in India. Perhaps you've accepted it because the DR is your home and you grew up there, but do you agree with this systematic social and economic segregation based on race and skin color?
And since most Haitians are black in race and dark in skin color - is this reason why you want them out the DR? Or is there still bitterness there because Haitians were once the ruling class over the Dominicans?
Sad. You all share so much history, including the history of colonialism. Does Toussaint Loverture and the marroons not mean anything to the Dominicans? You share the same island, so why not the same heroes? Who are your heroes? I have never heard of them the way I have heard about Toussaint.
This is new information for me. I know that Hispaniola was founded by... Columbus I think, and Haiti fought for independence from the French. I had assumed Haiti and DR shared the same history, but I never heard much about the separate history of DR, and had no idea that the two countries fought against each other for dominance and independence. So now I understand why you celebrate a day for your independence from Haiti.... but to the outsiders, I think it looks a little different because many see the DR and Haiti being nearly the same group of people occupying the same land.
Seems weird that a country once oppressed and dominated by another would then turn around and try to dominate and oppress another. And Haiti has always been known as one of the poorest countries in the Carribean, so I wouldn't have pegged them as having the army and ammunition it takes to oppress and dominate another country. But I guess it can and does happen.
How long has the DR been independent of Haiti?
Are these wounds and animosites fresh or long standing?
And is enslavement of the Haitians by the Dominicans still a problem there?
The 2nd time? Please explain if you will.
And Spain? I thought it was the French? I think I got it mixed up. So the French occupied Haiti and the Spanish occupied DR?
I always make assumptions, but usually I am open to seeing another's POV and having my assumptions corrected. I appreciate your willingness to answer questions about your country and history.
Why are you receiving deportees and where are they from? Your country?
In an attempt to answer your questions about the differences between the Dominican Republic and Haiti, I am going to refer you to a web link that pretty well describes the relation between the 2 countries. Surprisingly Wikipedia does a good job on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic
I also recommend that you read the book that I recommended earlier
'Why The Cocks Fight: Dominicans, Haitians, And The Struggle For Hispaniola' by Michele Wucker. This is a good book, that is fairly balanced, with a few errors on both sides. Gives a good understanding of the differences and similarities of the 2 countries.
We receive deportees mostly from the USA, and Europe. They were deported for breaking the laws of the country they were living in, normally after serving time in jail. We also deport criminals to their home countries, as we are a signatory of Interpol.
We were a colony of both France and Spain. Very well detailed in the web link, our hero’s are the Trinitarios (Trinitarians), Duarte, Sanchez, and Mella. They are the founding fathers of the Dominican Republic, who declared freedom from Haiti. The reason for the second time from Spain is we requested protection from Haiti after we drove them out in 1844.
Does Toussaint Loverture and the marroons not mean anything to the Dominicans
No Loverture was a Hero of Haiti, and we were invaded by Jean-Pierre Boyer, in 1822 just 9 months after our freedom from Spanish rule.
I would recommend read the Wikipedia Link, and then the book. This should answer any further questions. I could write for the next week about the differences.
so the DR has a social and economic strata that is based on race and skin color?
This is a common misconception. It is based on Classism. As in the US if you are not a Rockefeller, you do not run with the Rockefellers no matter your money or color. While reading the link look at the pictures of our Presidents, and Hero’s, you will see the differences
And as far Haiti always being the poorest country in the Caribbean that is not true. They were known as the Jewel of the Caribbean and Frances main money maker. This was due to the Sugar Cane Plantations. The French and Spanish were very different in their exploitation of the 2 countries. On this side of the island there were less slaves as there was no plantation system. Mainly ranching. As a matter of fact the number of Europeans and Freedmen out numbered slaves, at the time Boyer invaded.
medusanegrita:
so the DR has a social and economic strata that is based on race and skin color? That is sad. It is very much akin to the apartheid system in SA or the caste system in India. Perhaps you've accepted it because the DR is your home and you grew up there, but do you agree with this systematic social and economic segregation based on race and skin color?
And since most Haitians are black in race and dark in skin color - is this reason why you want them out the DR? Or is there still bitterness there because Haitians were once the ruling class over the Dominicans?
Sad. You all share so much history, including the history of colonialism. Does Toussaint Loverture and the marroons not mean anything to the Dominicans? You share the same island, so why not the same heroes? Who are your heroes? I have never heard of them the way I have heard about Toussaint.
This is new information for me. I know that Hispaniola was founded by... Columbus I think, and Haiti fought for independence from the French. I had assumed Haiti and DR shared the same history, but I never heard much about the separate history of DR, and had no idea that the two countries fought against each other for dominance and independence. So now I understand why you celebrate a day for your independence from Haiti.... but to the outsiders, I think it looks a little different because many see the DR and Haiti being nearly the same group of people occupying the same land.
Seems weird that a country once oppressed and dominated by another would then turn around and try to dominate and oppress another. And Haiti has always been known as one of the poorest countries in the Carribean, so I wouldn't have pegged them as having the army and ammunition it takes to oppress and dominate another country. But I guess it can and does happen.
How long has the DR been independent of Haiti?
Are these wounds and animosites fresh or long standing?
And is enslavement of the Haitians by the Dominicans still a problem there?
The 2nd time? Please explain if you will.
And Spain? I thought it was the French? I think I got it mixed up. So the French occupied Haiti and the Spanish occupied DR?
I always make assumptions, but usually I am open to seeing another's POV and having my assumptions corrected. I appreciate your willingness to answer questions about your country and history.
Why are you receiving deportees and where are they from? Your country?
In an attempt to answer your questions about the differences between the Dominican Republic and Haiti, I am going to refer you to a web link that pretty well describes the relation between the 2 countries. Surprisingly Wikipedia does a good job on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic
I also recommend that you read the book that I recommended earlier
'Why The Cocks Fight: Dominicans, Haitians, And The Struggle For Hispaniola' by Michele Wucker. This is a good book, that is fairly balanced, with a few errors on both sides. Gives a good understanding of the differences and similarities of the 2 countries.
We receive deportees mostly from the USA, and Europe. They were deported for breaking the laws of the country they were living in, normally after serving time in jail. We also deport criminals to their home countries, as we are a signatory of Interpol.
We were a colony of both France and Spain. Very well detailed in the web link, our hero’s are the Trinitarios (Trinitarians), Duarte, Sanchez, and Mella. They are the founding fathers of the Dominican Republic, who declared freedom from Haiti. The reason for the second time from Spain is we requested protection from Haiti after we drove them out in 1844.
Does Toussaint Loverture and the marroons not mean anything to the Dominicans
No Loverture was a Hero of Haiti, and we were invaded by Jean-Pierre Boyer, in 1822 just 9 months after our freedom from Spanish rule.
I would recommend read the Wikipedia Link, and then the book. This should answer any further questions. I could write for the next week about the differences.
so the DR has a social and economic strata that is based on race and skin color?
This is a common misconception. It is based on Classism. As in the US if you are not a Rockefeller, you do not run with the Rockefellers no matter your money or color. While reading the link look at the pictures of our Presidents, and Hero’s, you will see the differences
And as far Haiti always being the poorest country in the Caribbean that is not true. They were known as the Jewel of the Caribbean and Frances main money maker. This was due to the Sugar Cane Plantations. The French and Spanish were very different in their exploitation of the 2 countries. On this side of the island there were less slaves as there was no plantation system. Mainly ranching. As a matter of fact the number of Europeans and Freedmen out numbered slaves, at the time Boyer invaded.
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