Omowale Jabali : Queen Nefertiti: Fact Or Fiction?

Was Queen Nefertiti a Black Woman?


  • Total voters
    12
I only refer.. to these cultures because while im not an expert on any culture.. i do know that persians and romans and such didnt just pop up out of nowhere.. and from what i have learned about eqypt is that they did trade with other people.. that wernt of asian decent.. what they were labled at that time i do not know..
As i said before.. im not an expert,
but it dosent take a rocket scientist to regonize the traits of an indigenous african.
As far as wigs and etc.... this mummy did not have a wig on.. nor were there extensions... (it was in the report detailing the findings) and if there is something that you can straighten your hair with that will actually remain straight for millions of years after your death.. even when humidity (blk womans enemy) heat.. (hairs enemy) and time (human enemy) then.. certainly it would have been passed on.. from generation to generation... and wed still see remnants of it now.

And these skin complexions you speak of.... the only times ive seen milky brown complexions.. is when white men/asians were introduced into the equation.

San? huh... do you call your brothers and sisters by the term N!gg**... because the verbage means the same as that word does 2 us.
and I did come into contact with some bush people during my time in africa, and they were of light skin.... the Khoisan people (not san)

but I will also note, that I have seen not one description of these hunting and gathering groups prior to the portugeese bludgering the women, and calling them animals.. "dark bush people"...
how else do you think they figured out that the san women's labia minora was larger than that of portugeese women, and that thier breasts were engorged because they were of a barbarian sexual nature.

Not to mention that these people were herders, who herded cattle..
supplying the dutch as early as mid 1600's.
Which brings us to the reason of thier decline..
smallpox... devastated the people, and the bushmen died.. most went on to become farmers, or slaves, and some intermarried with the dutch... yes intermarried.

So before we start citing the oldest known people of south africa...
know that there was a kodak moment.. to see what these people looked like.. but kodak was a million years away.. all we have are the works and first hand enocunter descriptions of these people.. and they were noted by the dutch and the prortugeese.... to be copper in complexion.. even sketches depict them quite dark.
When at that point in time.. the portugeese themselves were of a very roasted complexion.

Any other examples of naturally light skinned africans untainted by white men?

**I like debating.. i love challenges, my cockyness is not of rage.. but excitement.. for finally an interesting topic to respond on..... no dissrespect.. just a fair trade of knowlege.**



Mad Skillz said:
PoeticManifesta said:
What is African hair suppose to look like? Hair form varies among indigenous Africans so not all Africans have the 'kinky' type hair form found among the stereotypical African. Hair can range from wavy to spiral form found among the San peoples of southern Africa. Those indigenous Black populations who remained in the tropics also maintained this diversity inherited from their African ancestors. Although of note, wavy hair found among Africans tends to be thicker than the wavy hair seen among non-Africans. Phenotype and skin tone is also more genetically diverse among Africans than any other group of people on earth ...which is another subject I won't get into at the moment.

Now, back to your question. It is common knowledge among the enlightened that the ancient Kemetians commonly 1) wore wigs and extensions 2) used embalming materials which is known to cause the hair to appear straight. Now IF INDEED the mummy is actually that of Nefertiti then the logical explanation for the appearance of the hair has been provided.



Again, you failed to address my last post. However I will retort:The Greek, Roman and Persian colonization were all after the dynasty. So why is there such a fixation with these alien dynasties that contributed absolutely nothing to the original Black civilization. And why do you insist on inserting the Romans and other foreigners into the 18th dynasty of Nefertiti's reign which is hundreds of years before any Greek, Roman or Persian ever stepped foot in Kemet? Are you confusing Nefertiti with Cleopatra?




What is there to think about?

If there is one area where Black people remain aggressively surpressed, it is the area of ancient history. What makes it difficult for whites to admit is they have come to the premature conclusion that there is social equality between Blacks and whites in general. And to many, it is feasible to assume that social equality equals acceptabilitiy and power/influence in all facets of society; so there is reason for them to maintain that scientific and academic institutions hold onto their pseudo and obsolete ideologies that are decidedly rooted in racism against Black people - therefore there's no need to question the exploitive nature of his-tory in order to uncover suppresed facts. However what burns me up is the ill-informed who may not be well versed in a particular subject such as this are so quick to blindly perpetuate the same dubious and scholarly dishonest teachings of those who are attempting to minimize or relegate the true history of the Black race; nor do they even try to objectively question, investigate or debunk what is falsely being presented as truth of fact.

It's very sad there are some people today who still hold the white man's word as the undeniable truth while the Black man's word is looked upon with doubt or somehow seen as flawed. Sad indeed.

The birth of Egyptology was based on racism with roots heavily intertwined in white supremacy. Perhaps some here should thoroughly investigate why this is before making erroneous comments.

Over the years Egyptologist have participated in foul play involving Kemetian mummies. Others have deliberately forged and defaced Kemetian statues and antiquities for reasons mentioned above. Yet for some people there is no outraged, however they take out their misguided anger against those who they believe are "blackanizing" the history books. :mad:
 
PoeticManifesta said:
I only refer.. to these cultures because while im not an expert on any culture.. i do know that persians and romans and such didnt just pop up out of nowhere.. and from what i have learned about eqypt is that they did trade with other people.. that wernt of asian decent.. what they were labled at that time i do not know..
As i said before.. im not an expert,
but it dosent take a rocket scientist to regonize the traits of an indigenous african.
As far as wigs and etc.... this mummy did not have a wig on.. nor were there extensions... (it was in the report detailing the findings) and if there is something that you can straighten your hair with that will actually remain straight for millions of years after your death.. even when humidity (blk womans enemy) heat.. (hairs enemy) and time (human enemy) then.. certainly it would have been passed on.. from generation to generation... and wed still see remnants of it now.

And these skin complexions you speak of.... the only times ive seen milky brown complexions.. is when white men/asians were introduced into the equation.

San? huh... do you call your brothers and sisters by the term N!gg**... because the verbage means the same as that word does 2 us.
and I did come into contact with some bush people during my time in africa, and they were of light skin.... the Khoisan people (not san)

but I will also note, that I have seen not one description of these hunting and gathering groups prior to the portugeese bludgering the women, and calling them animals.. "dark bush people"...
how else do you think they figured out that the san women's labia minora was larger than that of portugeese women, and that thier breasts were engorged because they were of a barbarian sexual nature.

Not to mention that these people were herders, who herded cattle..
supplying the dutch as early as mid 1600's.
Which brings us to the reason of thier decline..
smallpox... devastated the people, and the bushmen died.. most went on to become farmers, or slaves, and some intermarried with the dutch... yes intermarried.

So before we start citing the oldest known people of south africa...
know that there was a kodak moment.. to see what these people looked like.. but kodak was a million years away.. all we have are the works and first hand enocunter descriptions of these people.. and they were noted by the dutch and the prortugeese.... to be copper in complexion.. even sketches depict them quite dark.
When at that point in time.. the portugeese themselves were of a very roasted complexion.

Any other examples of naturally light skinned africans untainted by white men?

**I like debating.. i love challenges, my cockyness is not of rage.. but excitement.. for finally an interesting topic to respond on..... no dissrespect.. just a fair trade of knowlege.**




My only response to this is thanks for your input sister Poetic!

Peace.
 
PoeticManifesta said:
i do know that persians and romans and such didnt just pop up out of nowhere

Who said they didn't?! Let's not play semantics, ok.

I've ask you repeatedly and you failed to answer a simple question: Greek, Roman and Perisian presence in Kemet was late, and at the very least, at the end of the original KMT civilization. KMT endured over 30 dynasties and lasted was over 4,000 years before any of these foreigners ventured into KMT. So for the life of me what did these aliens have to do with the original demographics of KMT prior to the 30th dynasty and what contributions (if any) did these aliens allocate towards KMT after the 30th dynasty? Why do you have a difficult time understanding this?

but it dosent take a rocket scientist to regonize the traits of an indigenous african.

What are the traits? I certainly would like to know in your own words. This should be good.

And these skin complexions you speak of.... the only times ive seen milky brown complexions.. is when white men/asians were introduced into the equation.

This uncouth statement isn't worthy of a rebuttal.

but I will also note, that I have seen not one description of these hunting and gathering groups prior to the portugeese bludgering the women, and calling them animals.. "dark bush people"...
how else do you think they figured out that the san women's labia minora was larger than that of portugeese women, and that thier breasts were engorged because they were of a barbarian sexual nature.

Not to mention that these people were herders, who herded cattle..
supplying the dutch as early as mid 1600's.
Which brings us to the reason of thier decline..
smallpox... devastated the people, and the bushmen died.. most went on to become farmers, or slaves, and some intermarried with the dutch... yes intermarried.

What does any of this have to do with anything?

So before we start citing the oldest known people of south africa...
know that there was a kodak moment.. to see what these people looked like.. but kodak was a million years away.. all we have are the works and first hand enocunter descriptions of these people.. and they were noted by the dutch and the prortugeese.... to be copper in complexion.. even sketches depict them quite dark.

If you're implying the San's skin tone is not their natural color, then I'm sorry to say you have much to comprehend regarding genetic haplogroups, mtDNA and natural variation and adaption. So I really don't see a need to continue this one-sided conversation since it's not based on any reasonable level of merit or comprehension. However before I go I will leave something for you to chew on.

* Human Biology 2000 Oct;92 (5): 773-80 Related articles, links Human skin color diversity is highest in sub-Saharan populations.
Relethford JH.
Department of Anthropology, State University of New York College at Onenota, 13820, USA*

Previous studies of genetic and craniomertic triats have found higher levels of within-population diversity in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. This study examines regional differences in within-population diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe, West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australia, and the New World. Regional differences in local within-population diversity were examined using two measures of variability: the sample variance and sample coefficient of variation. For both measures the average level of within-population diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other geographical regions. The difference persist even after adjusting for a correlation between within-population diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected by *natural* selection, skin color variation shows the same pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits. African skin complexions range from almost jet-black along the equator to yellowish-brown just outside the tropical latitudes which are the sub-tropical zones. With some North African Berber groups living just north of the tropic of Cancer and South African Khoisan groups living just south of the tropic of Capricorn.

:bam:
 
Mad Skillz said:
Previous studies of genetic and craniomertic triats have found higher levels of within-population diversity in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. This study examines regional differences in within-population diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe, West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australia, and the New World. Regional differences in local within-population diversity were examined using two measures of variability: the sample variance and sample coefficient of variation. For both measures the average level of within-population diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other geographical regions. The difference persist even after adjusting for a correlation between within-population diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected by *natural* selection, skin color variation shows the same pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits. African skin complexions range from almost jet-black along the equator to yellowish-brown just outside the tropical latitudes which are the sub-tropical zones. With some North African Berber groups living just north of the tropic of Cancer and South African Khoisan groups living just south of the tropic of Capricorn.
Thats if you believe in natural selection... of which the science community still remains divided. I of which... do not.
You seem to know things for a fact, I do not... thats what makes science; science... the ability to keep an open mind....
I appreciate your enthusiasim... in this conversation; it will not go unawarded.:grin:
Since neigther one of us was living then.. you must keep an open mind..
i dont nessisairly have time to find all types of proof to show you why I believe the way I do.. because I write enough thesis papers as is. So its for my laziness that I do not. But I will say that, brown is brown... the San had dark copper toned skin.. not that of the milky tones that they have found of some of the mummies... these past years... like coffee with four creams....
Im not denying the complexion is different for these sub saharan groups.. just the reasons of change. I agree to disagree since you seem to be taking this way too far... we discuss issues to share knowledge, not take the topics personal. :blowkiss:
 
PoeticManifesta said:
In addition.. does this look like the hair of an african.. since some dont seem to believe that the races were tainted as far back as the Ancient Egyptian times... one thing we can claim to our fam.. is our thick nappy hair. THis is more the hair of a persian to me.

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/nefertiti/story/slideshow3/slide_02.html Mummy.. 1 one of the ones left with the believed Nefertiti.. said to be Akhenaten's mother.

This.. yes this.. is the mummy said to be the great Nefertiti..
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/nefertiti/story/slideshow3/slide_06.html

THis goes back to the point that somebody made earlier.. if she was with them.. more than likely she was one of them... Black? white? persain.. roman.. whatever.. think about it

Sis, I must say that I love your hunger for the facts here. First I must say that there is no such thing as "Black" hair. Have you ever seen an Ethiopian, San, Senegalese, Sudanese, Somalians or some Nigerians? They all can have bone straight hair. I think with the selective breeding determined by Whites in the Americas, we have come to believe that we only have tightly coiled hair. During the the Maafa (enslavement), White men highly sought Senegalese women because they had long dark straight hair, where they of course raped them as their slaves. Anyhow, I'll digress on that (perhaps for another thread).

The hair on Egyptian mummies has been unequivocally determined to be Black African. The trichometric index has been determined to be more Black African than the hair found on "Sub-Saharan" Africans in many cases, or "the most Negroid hair in existence". As for why much of the hair is straight. Two (2) reasons: it could very well be straight like their other African neighbors, and the mummification/embalming chemicals used had a similar effect that perms have with high concentrations of alkalines. Over thousands of years, this straightens the shaft of the hair making it flossy, while discoloring it to a lighter brown or even a reddish-blond. Typically, if the person's hair is very discolored, they typically died very old where the hair stops receiving dark pigment from the body (starts going grey). I do hope you and all my brothers and sisters here can read about the Black African hair of the Egyptian mummies here...

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/hair2.html
 

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