Black People : REPARATIONS due US??

[mrron]

Truetothecause, I must admit that I have more questions than I do answers on this subject. I do know that there has been a bit more support for John Conyers bill over the last two years. His bill ask for tax exemption for one generation.

I can't answer your question about the native community, I assume you are talking about the so called Indians, who call themselve by other names. There are various reparations that have been paid out for various reasons. There was a talk show on the subject recently, and many of the black guest were against it. The primary reason given, was that it would divide the country even further, and actually create hostilities between blacks and whites, especially since many of them see blacks as already getting too many benefits.

Personally, I consider it a bad debt. I think we are owed money that is never going to be paid, because too much time has elapsed. I also think that we can do more for ourselves than any amount of reparations can ever do. We don't need to promote a "welfare mentality", that is already a problem.

 

[excel10k]

Truetothecause, I must admit that I have more questions than I do answers on this subject. I do know that there has been a bit more support for John Conyers bill over the last two years. His bill ask for tax exemption for one generation.

I can't answer your question about the native community, I assume you are talking about the so called Indians, who call themselve by other names. There are various reparations that have been paid out for various reasons. There was a talk show on the subject recently, and many of the black guest were against it. The primary reason given, was that it would divide the country even further, and actually create hostilities between blacks and whites, especially since many of them see blacks as already getting too many benefits.

Personally, I consider it a bad debt. I think we are owed money that is never going to be paid, because too much time has elapsed. I also think that we can do more for ourselves than any amount of reparations can ever do. We don't need to promote a "welfare mentality", that is already a problem.

I also consider it a bad debt, but not to me, to my great, great, great Grand parents. I have the impression that most here will dissagree with me, but this is my personal opinion. While I have experienced incidents that I contribute to racism from time to time, I don't recall any that have hindered me in any way. I was educated in integrated classrooms by mostly white, but more than a few black teachers and performed on par with and in many cases better than white students. Although I was not taught "African" history, I was tought the necessary skills to be competitive in AMERICA, and have done so without opposition from "the white man". To my knowledge, all failures in my life has been as a result of my own personal shortcoming or my own poor decision making.

I would LOVE to see the 5 step plan concerning the use of reparations, because prior to now, I have not seen a plan for their use, should we get them. I personally don't see it is very likely because most who demand them are those who do or say the most to alienate those who would be paying them. (such as "we must exterminate all whites from the face of the earth") Dave Chappelle did a skit on reparations which unfortunately seemed realistic.....It s more likely that every tin can on the road would have a set of 22's than we protecting that wealth and securing the future generations with it.

Insomuch as the "events" that mis-shaped black America, I clearly understand slavery, but I don't buy into the "Drugs" and "Aids". Again, this is my personal opinion...I have a right to it as do any who dissagree with me. Sure, I have heard all of the conspiricy theories about the CIA and the scientist with the monkeys in Africa and I even acknowledge that it is possible that those theories could have an element of truth to them....BUT, I know that NO WHITE MAN HAS EVER offered me drugs. I know that each time I have been offered drugs, it was from a fellow African American who was seeking to earn a buck from selling me poision. I know that this fellow African American was able bodied as I was and was just as free as I was to CHOOSE to do something productive to earn money. (I have a very low tolerance for excuses) I know that just as I CHOOSE to refuse every black man that ever offered me drugs, they too had the freedom to CHOOSE to refuse whomever offered it to them.

AIDS is an equal opportunity KILLER. It is a non-issue for certain people but a constant risk for others. But, who it selects is based soley on BEHAVIOR rather than race. In America, AIDS started as a gay white mans disease. A man who is committed to one woman and is married to a woman who is committed to one man has almost ZERO chance of getting AIDS. I have been married for 22 years, my wife and I are commited only to one another, AIDS is a non-issue for us. It can be a non-issue for anyone who CHOOSES to live according to God's blueprint for marriage and family.

There is nothing going on in Post Civil Rights America that hinders the average black person from CHOOSING right over wrong. EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES. We will never solve our problems until we acknowledge that these issues are about individual CHOICES. The same thing will fix AIDS is the same thing that will fix the 70% out-of-wedlock childbirth rate. RESPONSIBLE BLACK MEN. While unlikely, reparations would be nice....but MUCH MORE THAN REPARATIONS, WE NEED RESPONSIBLE BLACK MEN.

 

[truetothecause]

I also consider it a bad debt, but not to me, to my great, great, great Grand parents. I have the impression that most here will dissagree with me, but this is my personal opinion. While I have experienced incidents that I contribute to racism from time to time, I don't recall any that have hindered me in any way. I was educated in integrated classrooms by mostly white, but more than a few black teachers and performed on par with and in many cases better than white students. Although I was not taught "African" history, I was tought the necessary skills to be competitive in AMERICA, and have done so without opposition from "the white man". To my knowledge, all failures in my life has been as a result of my own personal shortcoming or my own poor decision making.

I would LOVE to see the 5 step plan concerning the use of reparations, because prior to now, I have not seen a plan for their use, should we get them. I personally don't see it is very likely because most who demand them are those who do or say the most to alienate those who would be paying them. (such as "we must exterminate all whites from the face of the earth") Dave Chappelle did a skit on reparations which unfortunately seemed realistic.....It s more likely that every tin can on the road would have a set of 22's than we protecting that wealth and securing the future generations with it.

Insomuch as the "events" that mis-shaped black America, I clearly understand slavery, but I don't buy into the "Drugs" and "Aids". Again, this is my personal opinion...I have a right to it as do any who dissagree with me. Sure, I have heard all of the conspiricy theories about the CIA and the scientist with the monkeys in Africa and I even acknowledge that it is possible that those theories could have an element of truth to them....BUT, I know that NO WHITE MAN HAS EVER offered me drugs. I know that each time I have been offered drugs, it was from a fellow African American who was seeking to earn a buck from selling me poision. I know that this fellow African American was able bodied as I was and was just as free as I was to CHOOSE to do something productive to earn money. (I have a very low tolerance for excuses) I know that just as I CHOOSE to refuse every black man that ever offered me drugs, they too had the freedom to CHOOSE to refuse whomever offered it to them.

AIDS is an equal opportunity KILLER. It is a non-issue for certain people but a constant risk for others. But, who it selects is based soley on BEHAVIOR rather than race. In America, AIDS started as a gay white mans disease. A man who is committed to one woman and is married to a woman who is committed to one man has almost ZERO chance of getting AIDS. I have been married for 22 years, my wife and I are commited only to one another, AIDS is a non-issue for us. It can be a non-issue for anyone who CHOOSES to live according to God's blueprint for marriage and family.

There is nothing going on in Post Civil Rights America that hinders the average black person from CHOOSING right over wrong. EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES. We will never solve our problems until we acknowledge that these issues are about individual CHOICES. The same thing will fix AIDS is the same thing that will fix the 70% out-of-wedlock childbirth rate. RESPONSIBLE BLACK MEN. While unlikely, reparations would be nice....but MUCH MORE THAN REPARATIONS, WE NEED RESPONSIBLE BLACK MEN.

Greetings excel10k

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings regarding REPARATIONS for Afreekan Descendents. As I listened to you share I wondered as to your age. This is because I KNOW there is a hugh gap amongst the generations in terms of information and experiences with those of european descent.
Are you willing to share your age with M.E.:?:

It would be useful in aiding M.E. in having a clearer overstainding of your position as well as how I may reply. I would like to continue this conversation as I have not really shared my personal experiences, strengths and Plans as they RE~late to REPARATIONS for Afreekan Descendents and, in your discourse, I hear a couple questions and points of limited information. This may BE due to the "generation gap" and the experiences you have had vs. those of the older generation.
I RE~cently had a discussion with my neice which helped M.E. in "seeing" that gap!
I have to run for now yet Plan to come back to this conversation.


Mrron, thanks again for sharing and for acknowledging the limitations in knowledge RE~garding the question I posed to you.

Natinr, while I have never taken a course in 'Political Science' what you have shared sounds a lot like 'plain ole Capitalism'. No, they will NOT want to give back anything when the shystem functions with the TAKING of money, greed, hording of resources etc.....
Really tho, Natinr, your use of the term "political science" has my brain working. I may come back and share more of what was stimulated and what's brewing as I meditate on your words.
Thanks again for sharing!


Destee Family,
If there is a thread afloat which addresses the question "How could REPARATIONS benefit and/or hurt Afreekan Descendents" or What would your PLAN Be were you to RE~ceive REPARATIONS it would be great to bump it up. Other than that, I'm thinking of posing the question yet I KNOW you all have been having discussions of this nature for a long time.

 

[mrron]

Excel10k, I really appreciate your input and your clear understanding of what is really going on here. It's refreshing to hear my sentiments expressed by another.

Truetothecause, there is a book on reparations by an author named Ray Winbush, his fiance happens to be a friend of mine. The book has been out for about four years. He is a college professor in Baltimore, maybe you can find it on Amazon. She was suppose to send me a copy, but I never recieved it.

 

[excel10k]

Greetings excel10k

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings regarding REPARATIONS for Afreekan Descendents. As I listened to you share I wondered as to your age. This is because I KNOW there is a hugh gap amongst the generations in terms of information and experiences with those of european descent.
Are you willing to share your age with M.E.:?:

It would be useful in aiding M.E. in having a clearer overstainding of your position as well as how I may reply. I would like to continue this conversation as I have not really shared my personal experiences, strengths and Plans as they RE~late to REPARATIONS for Afreekan Descendents and, in your discourse, I hear a couple questions and points of limited information. This may BE due to the "generation gap" and the experiences you have had vs. those of the older generation.
I RE~cently had a discussion with my neice which helped M.E. in "seeing" that gap!
I have to run for now yet Plan to come back to this conversation.


Mrron, thanks again for sharing and for acknowledging the limitations in knowledge RE~garding the question I posed to you.

Natinr, while I have never taken a course in 'Political Science' what you have shared sounds a lot like 'plain ole Capitalism'. No, they will NOT want to give back anything when the shystem functions with the TAKING of money, greed, hording of resources etc.....
Really tho, Natinr, your use of the term "political science" has my brain working. I may come back and share more of what was stimulated and what's brewing as I meditate on your words.
Thanks again for sharing!


Destee Family,
If there is a thread afloat which addresses the question "How could REPARATIONS benefit and/or hurt Afreekan Descendents" or What would your PLAN Be were you to RE~ceive REPARATIONS it would be great to bump it up. Other than that, I'm thinking of posing the question yet I KNOW you all have been having discussions of this nature for a long time.

I am 42 years old, I retired from the military after 20 yeas of service. I grew up in Mississippi and clearly remember "Colored Waiting" rooms at the doctors clinic when I was in elementary school. By high school, we interacted with whites students at school but almost never outside of school.

In the military, I was introduced to the concept of working with other races on a team basis where our lives depended upon one another. In basic training, my best friend became a white guy from Nebraska. He had a 100 stupid questions about blacks and I had a 100 stupid questions about whites. At the end of the day, we discovered that a black country boy from Mississippi and a white country boy from Nebraska could have a lot in common and could be great friends.

As my career progressed, I attended military flight school. There I met a white guy from Maine. He and I hit it off immediately and were inseperable. Our classmates started calling us "Wally" (me) and "Beaver"(him) Cleaver. He and I are tight to this day. I have been through more with "Beav" than I have with my blood brothers.

I admit that I went to basic training with a chip on my shoulder, but the guy from Nebraska cause me to remove it. Since flight school, the vast majority of my military career and civilian career following military retirement have been in mostly white environments. I have always been treated as a professional. I have not been given anything that I didn't earn nor did I want anything that I haven't earned.

I choose to do some things differently than some of my childhood friends. When I visit home now, some of those friends who are sitting in the same neighborhood doing the same things they were doing as a child and blaming the white man for holding them down have never attempted to get up. They make comments like "those white folks let you fly their planes?" Well, I never asked them. I just choose to do it. A lot of them helped me though.

I have been so blessed in this country, I personally feel I am owed no debt from this country. As I mentioned previously, I have experienced incidents that I would contribute to racism from time to time, but they have served as an annoyance more than any thing else. In some cases, they have increased my resolve and made me stronger. But NEVER have they hindered me.

In one situation, before going to flight school, I had a captian who was racist. He did some things that showed favor toward a white soldier. I asked to speak with him and told him that he was a very unprofessional leader and that his behavior negatively effected the moral and the effectiveness of his unit. I laid down my case point by point and left him with his jaw dragging the ground. I told him that I would be sharing the same information with his superior. My case was so tight and he was so amazed that I presented it in such a professional and methodical manner without wild, unfounded accusations the only thing he could do is say, "You are right, I am sorry".

I have reflected on this situation many times since then and have used it as a source and method of dealing with people on a few occassions. I have never since then accused a white person of racism. I see racism as an ambigous issue. I simply point out their behavior to them or to the person I am reporting it to and allow the motive to be determined by the hearer.....I simply point out the iniquity of the situation or the lack of professionalism. I have never left dissatisfied.