Black Women : Creating a Respectful Distance Between Black Men and Women

Discussion in 'Black Women - Mothers - Sisters - Daughters' started by Thinking70, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. Thinking70

    Thinking70 Banned MEMBER

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    Do we think that black men and women have enough social ‘space’ between them to enable them talk about and dialogue with each other on a variety of issues and in a number of constructive ways?

    I always get the feeling that we are expected to somehow ‘cleave’ to each other unreservedly, both politically and socially, leaving no ‘autonomous’ space between. This state of being, is romanticised and seen to be what will ‘save’ the community. We are told we have to prefer, overlook, make allowance etc. I think one effect is that contrary to feeling safe and satisfied with each other, things can get blown out of proportion between us e.g. men’s philandering is conceptualised as a ‘black’ illness rather than seen for the universal habit it is. After all, Black men can only be princes and knights, therefore, we can’t allow them to be normal men with normal men’s shortcomings.

    Also another result, is we have higher expectations and ‘crash’ with disillusionment when these are unfulfilled.

    I think this kind of ‘no space allowed between black men and women’ is unnatural.

    Black men and women are separate political entities. Our political interests can often lie on opposite sides even though we still have the overarching ‘community interest’to achieve. For instance, men might have no problem with a situation that enables them have more than one woman (as is the case now). Women on the other hand are much more interested in a situation where they are the sole recipients of one mans affection and resources for obvious reasons.

    The feminist movement has created a safe space for white females to criticise white men and push for change on many fronts, but raise same issues in black community and all you get is, ‘we have bigger problems’. Hence devaluation of women goes unchecked.

    Usually if you have to criticise black men or women for any issue (and I don’t mean idiotic complaints, but well analysed and articulated points) it can only be as outburst of sheer frustration, possibly after you have ‘left’ the community to be with another race.

    I noticed this while writing a book explaining interracial dating for black women. It is when in IR relationships that blacks feel comfortable to come all out with their anger and pent up frustration with the other sex.

    Is this space to dialogue a good idea, how do we create it if so?


    the website to my book is below

    << web site linked removed by Destee >>
     
  2. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Thinking70 ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

    Your interest in Black Men and Women, as the title of this thread indicates, while closing the post with a link to your book promoting interracial relationships, are contrary to say the least.

    I don't know if you've noticed, but this community is about Black folk doing whatever we must, to re-learn how to love ourselves and each other properly. The promotion of interracial dating, marrying, etc., has consistently proven itself disruptive to this community. There are many sites where interracial dating is embraced and encouraged. If this is what you're seeking, you may wanna find one of them.

    In addition, please review our forum rules - #5, as adding a link to your site in every post, is considered spamming, unless you're a Premium Member. Ignoring this rule will have all of your links deactivated.

    Again ... welcome.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  3. Thinking70

    Thinking70 Banned MEMBER

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    thanks for the info, unfortunately when one registers there are a ton of information to wade through, that the finer points can be missed out. so i have duly noted your comments on rule no 5.


    I think its time to correct the widespread impression that dating non-black at any time, means having no concern for black people. its a little outdated an idea, dont you think, especially for the 21st century.


    how did we ever come up with such a hard and fast rule anyway? if i said that eating meat meant, you didnt care about animals at all, i am sure you would see reason to contest that as a little too rigid a conclussion. however i am aware of how such reasoning is used to get people into extereme ways of thinking and radical level of selfless loyalty!

    now i am a black female myself and this is the sister forum (i presume)? i dont see how i cant be interested in issues around bwomanhood as they affect me personally.

    maybe you can help me out here, and help me undrstand, how i am suddenly detached from what happens to fellow black women!

    the main reason behind my book was indeed to confront the 'dishonesty' inherent in the black community around the issue of interracial relationships and how it affects black women. Many people, including the elders and leaders would rather ignore or play down the issue, which is of real concern to almost every black woman i have met, just because they know that by confronting it, they would have to give black women some answers!

    So many would rather claim not to notice black women putting of their needs for loving relationships, or pretend they didnt see how bw were struggling alone and dislusioned by their lot. even female leaders themselves have decided to take this 'lets ignore it' path than be honest with fellow bw. but i am sincerely conviced that this dishonesty will be the root cause of the bigger dividions emerging. in this day and age, if bw are suddenly clued into the idea that their real concerns are not central to the black agenda, they will begin to 'disconnect' with this 'black unity' stuff at an alarming rate.

    i think bw have been loyal sufferers for quite a while but the newer generation are more in touch with their own needs and desires, and we might like to think about the fact that blind loyalty has its limits!

    how can we claim to be a community when the needs of our women are neglected and ignore because they present hard questions. are we not brave enough to confrnt the issues?

    i would rather say my book explores the issue of interracial relationships without fear or favour rather than encourages it, and women have come away from reading it, claerly knowing both sides of the argument to be able to make their own personal decisions for or against.
     
  4. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    I'm glad you duly noted rule #5. I hope too, that you'll duly note the fact that promoting interracial relationships on this site has consistently proven disruptive. As a result, those with this discussion / agenda, usually get banned or leave on their own.

    If you believe your bringing this to us, will produce a different outcome than all those before you ... please continue.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  5. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  6. Thinking70

    Thinking70 Banned MEMBER

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    the truth is that this particular topic wasnt even about interracial dating, i just mentioned it in passing and maybe to flash my credentials as a writer (ha ha).

    i am happy to turn this back to the discussion about creating a safe space to constructively address the issues between bm and women (that is unless you think i have lost the credibility to do so).

    maybe you have thoughts on the idea of how we can go about dialoging (every community needs to because every communtiy has its internal issues), in a way that defensiveness on the part of men and womendoesnt become a problem, and the issues can be recieved and addressed not rebuffed.
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In all honesty it is difficult to have an geniune discussion with someone who you know (or strongly suspect) is not fully committed to the topic. What you considered to be "showing your credentials" others viewed to be "showing your hand". Only a fool would enter into a poker game, when they know their opponent intends to cheat.

    I have many thoughts on that subject which I've shared in countless threads throughout this wonderful forum Destee has created.
     
  8. Thinking70

    Thinking70 Banned MEMBER

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    this may sound very strange to you, but i was actually addressing my post to destee, because i feel she is someone who doesnt just shut down discussions or make snap judgements and is open to the idea that 'just maybe', there might be something 'else' or a new perspective to be had on what we dismiss as old issues.

    i think it kind of comes with a level of maturity, the ability to hear people out and not dismiss them because we have 'preset' conditions about who should comment on issues. fresh thinking and diverse views are always necessary, if a communtiy are to move ahead!

    close mindedness can lead one down a cul-de-sac.
     
  9. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ultimately it doesn't matter if you were addressing your post to myself or Destee, because the point I made remains the central issue (a point Destee herself alluded to). It is difficult to have an geniune discussion with someone whom you know already know is not fully committed to the topic. Refusing to do so is not demonstrating a lack of "maturity", it is showing a lack of naivety (which few people here are).
     
  10. Thinking70

    Thinking70 Banned MEMBER

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    If you dont mind, (and i say this respectfully), i hope you let her tell me this herself because i got a different impression from her post to me. People who create Measage Boards are visionaries and can be quite 'visionary' and dynamic in the way they see their boards developing, while others might be stuck on 'the way things have been' and protecting protocol and convention. sometimes visonaries sit back and mulls things over in ways that others dont.

    anyway lets agree to leave it here between you and me, as i think we have said all there is to say to each other.
     
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