Black Spirituality Religion : How Do Atheists Feel About Non-Abrahamic "Religions"?

[jamesfrmphilly]

"The White Man isn't the Devil because he's White. He's White, because he's the Devil".

​

 

[Gorilla]

I think you are putting your carriage before the horse. Further, it sounds like you are mixing and matching inductive and deductive reason as it suits you.

You've made some HUGE generalizations about African spirituality as a whole here, and yet you evade the Q's when you are confronted with them. All the while, wearing the cloak of "Science" as your shield.

I don't think it's inductive or deductive reasoning that or my supposed use of it that's the problem. I think it's that I equally don't subscribe to literal religious notions about the way the world is regardless of where they come from. Providing a belief system that's African or Asian doesn't change that for me as it seems to for others.

I understand that people's interpretation of those faiths are how they try to get more flexibility with them, but it just seems unnecessary if my interest is actually learning about the Universe.

 

[SAMURAI36]

I don't think it's inductive or deductive reasoning that or my supposed use of it that's the problem. I think it's that I equally don't subscribe to literal religious notions about the way the world is regardless of where they come from. Providing a belief system that's African or Asian doesn't change that for me as it seems to for others.

I understand that people's interpretation of those faiths are how they try to get more flexibility with them, but it just seems unnecessary if my interest is actually learning about the Universe.

Okay, if you say so. There is clearly more at work here (I'm not the only one that sees it), but this is the redactive position you are prepared to take, thus so be it. You are convinced that African spirituality cannot do something, but begrudgingly admit to not having enough info about African Spirituality to begin with, in order to make such a claim.

For the record, I predicted this outcome from the onset, at least from you. Which is why I knew that your questions wouldn't serve the convo well. I was trying to avoid the circular discussion. But alas, here we are.

The "Universe" you are looking to see, will only be seen thru the lens of the White Man's telescope (this is meant both literally and figuratively). That is only going to show you but so much. And it WON'T show you the one place you should be looking.

 

[Gorilla]

Okay, if you say so. There is clearly more at work here (I'm not the only one that sees it), but this is the redactive position you are prepared to take, thus so be it. You are convinced that African spirituality cannot do something, but begrudgingly admit to not having enough info about African Spirituality to begin with, in order to make such a claim.

For the record, I predicted this outcome from the onset, at least from you. Which is why I knew that your questions wouldn't serve the convo well. I was trying to avoid the circular discussion. But alas, here we are.

The "Universe" you are looking to see, will only be seen thru the lens of the White Man's telescope (this is meant both literally and figuratively). That is only going to show you but so much. And it WON'T show you the one place you should be looking.

A few things make it clear that you've already come to a conclusion that needed to be maintained instead of formed through discussion. At first I was ignorant about Dharmic religions, now I am just ignorant on ATRs. So I don't think the we're looking at actually matters when you have to maintain that already formed conclusion. Your representation of Spinoza's view (after being wrong about asserting that I shared them) was an example of this. Before knowing anything about him in meaningful sense you already had a conclusion ready.

That's what makes these discussions circular for you and that's the disconnect between us. It's a disagreement I am completely fine with. Some people are not comfortable with uncertainty or harsh conclusions and instead want to exchange them for palliative outlooks.

 

[SAMURAI36]

A few things make it clear that you've already come to a conclusion that needed to be maintained instead of formed through discussion. At first I was ignorant about Dharmic religions, now I am just ignorant on ATRs. So I don't think the we're looking at actually matters when you have to maintain that already formed conclusion. Your representation of Spinoza's view (after being wrong about asserting that I shared them) was an example of this. Before knowing anything about him in meaningful sense you already had a conclusion ready.

....Says the person that has made such conclusions about Spirituality as a whole. You don't see the irony of this?

That's what makes these discussions circular for you and that's the disconnect between us. It's a disagreement I am completely fine with. Some people are not comfortable with uncertainty or harsh conclusions and instead want to exchange them for palliative outlooks.

And the hits just keep coming. You couldn't tell me a single thing about ATR's, despite A) being given info about them, and you attempting to downplay, and B) Being asked directly for what--if anything--you know about them.

You quote my statements, but you don't actually respond to them.Instead, you attempted to hide your own ignorance by diverting the convo to science (and focusing on the minutia therein), a point that was never in contention in the first place.

They have a name for this disingenuous tactic of debating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

To this very moment, you can't tell me 5 solid things about any ATR (let alone Kemetic), especially that which you haven't learned from White folks.

And no, I continue to posit that you DON'T know much about the Dharmic systems, least of which you can readily demonstrate here. You asked about the Samsara, I countered with the Chakras, and you ignored it. You asked about the Kemetic, and I offered Shu and Tefnut, and you ignored it. I presented to you Black scholars past and present, like Diop and RUNA (whom you obviously have no knowledge of), and you counter offer with Hawking, Einstein, Spinoza and the like... White men who would just as soon toss all of our Black ***** in a Black Hole, than teach us about one.

You had/have every opportunity to take the conversation down a path of learning about systems with which you are obviously unfamiliar, but you have refused at every turn. Instead, you opted to answer Q's with Q's, and call foul when I didn't play your game.

As I said, this not my first rodeo.

This is not a verbal discussion, where you could easily say "I never said or did any of that".... But it's all written out here, for everyone to see. And as folks have said, they see the exact same thing that I do.

See, I've learned a long time ago, that the beauty of message board forums, is that you always have an audience. Convo's that you think are just between you and one other person, are being read by different people. And for however many people you think are reading them, there are that many more people that are actually reading them.

Thus, I'm not the only one here, that sees that you have written off African thought, and the great Black Minds, past and present, that posited such a mindset, in favor of Whites and Jews and others.

But, feel free to continue to tell me that I(we) don't now what I'm talking about, despite the 16 pages here, where you've proven this to be accurate.