Science and Technology : Almost Godlike (Science and Spirituality)

The question of instinct brings in the question of whether we actually have free will. Have you seen this talk before?


Response to the Video.

Free Will is Influence by too many factors known and unknown....
Some Factors weigh more in the decision making process...Once an Individual Accepts Racism - Most Black will suffer under his hand or influence.
Food influences Mood has been known for years hence business is often Conducted around meals or while having a meal.
Once a process is understood it often seems mechanistic.....
The more decision making process is understood the more it appears mechanical or predetermined....That does not diminish free will
The More Instinctive the more predictable....The more Intuitive the less predictable
Everything has a cause....Randomness is just that we do not understand the pattern of causes leading to particular eventuality.

In conclusion:
99% of all Physical/Animal life is deterministic because they are all responding to the influence biology and environment.
The 1% is not Responding but Acting in and on their Biology and Environment through being Spiritual and Striving to bring more Spirit to their physical reality.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and I'll share my opinion as well. I'm especially fascinated by this, as a programmer because I've thought on this for a long time as well as how "robotic" I myself have been and how "robotic" other people seem to be, especially when they lack the more social programming. It seems like there are simply layers of "code" for different systems that result in our complete behavior. And if one of those systems is damaged or the energy flowing through it is "blocked" (kind of like blocking chakras) then the difference between person and robot becomes less coherent, if that makes sense.
The whole process of Spirituality is to be Free of Biology and Environment ....hence Meditation causes on to feel as if one is cut off from the outside influence - Sensory Depravation.

And if "blocked" (considering conditions like autism), then that energy can go more into another system, logic/reason for example (but not necessarily this), to "compensate" similar to what often happens to hearing after vision loss.

At the end of the day we are biological machines with energy moving through our internal organs. Even if I write a program, I may write it because I'm executing the program (function) my job requires me. However, I work for a family-owned business so did the original owner not make a free will decision to start the company when he could have worked for someone else?
No....
We are not biological Machines.....We are using a biological machine - but we believe and act as if we are Biological Machines.

Naturally, all of our decisions are driving by energy; driven by the need for energy and our decisions all manipulate energy. If we think about this too hard it basically obliterates human concepts like romance, but then again, we have to consider free will as sort of being the "space between" environmental factors or (in terms of scientific experimentation...) "controls". These controls are basically "constants" rather than variables. So even if, given the constants, human behavior can be predicted to a 90% degree of certainty (it may be higher), the fact that we're not wholly logical, the fact that we can react in different ways, or choose different paths, acting out of our (Jung) Shadow or Dark Side, or through consciousness/awareness our light or "enlightened" state... even if it is a completely binary switch of which millions of such switches creates a computer, we still live in a world of choices. And now our awareness is seeping beyond the binary choice, to the spectrum of choices in between.
Basically we are Spiritual Being having a Physical Experience....The body is driven by the need for Energy - Spirit has no need for Energy.

The primary constants are the forces of nature. I think ancient science understood this and these became the primal "gods", more elemental in nature. After these gods produce the elements, the elements interact with each other (have children). And this continues but the one constant, "animating force", is always present. We're always gathering that energy or gathering and consuming what has gathered that energy. And so, naturally, this procession of energy, progressing into different forms and functions, is why I believe in THE FORCE. Just as pharaoh Ahkenaten tried to unify the Egyptian gods into one - which I'm sure you have a deeper understanding of.
The Elements are Spiritual Devices that are used to maintain Physical Reality...just as how the body is a Spiritual Device for the apparent purpose of experiencing physical reality.

But just as this force, creates branching pathways through matter, I think free will is our ability to choose and guide energy along different pathways, creating, by self-organization, these path ways just like we create roads and bridges. And of course we all have programming. We all have DNA telling us what we are and how to use energy and how to convert energy from biomass. So much like asking AI at a prompt... not knowing or caring how the AI exactly arrived at the answer, because all we care about is the answer when in reality its whole thought process was guided by an algorithm.
True enough.
 
Response to the Video.

Free Will is Influence by too many factors known and unknown....
Some Factors weigh more in the decision making process...Once an Individual Accepts Racism - Most Black will suffer under his hand or influence.
Food influences Mood has been known for years hence business is often Conducted around meals or while having a meal.
Once a process is understood it often seems mechanistic.....
The more decision making process is understood the more it appears mechanical or predetermined....That does not diminish free will
The More Instinctive the more predictable....The more Intuitive the less predictable
Everything has a cause....Randomness is just that we do not understand the pattern of causes leading to particular eventuality.

In conclusion:
99% of all Physical/Animal life is deterministic because they are all responding to the influence biology and environment.
The 1% is not Responding but Acting in and on their Biology and Environment through being Spiritual and Striving to bring more Spirit to their physical reality.


The whole process of Spirituality is to be Free of Biology and Environment ....hence Meditation causes on to feel as if one is cut off from the outside influence - Sensory Depravation.


No....
We are not biological Machines.....We are using a biological machine - but we believe and act as if we are Biological Machines.


Basically we are Spiritual Being having a Physical Experience....The body is driven by the need for Energy - Spirit has no need for Energy.


The Elements are Spiritual Devices that are used to maintain Physical Reality...just as how the body is a Spiritual Device for the apparent purpose of experiencing physical reality.


True enough.


But the spirit IS energy.
(working backward from the end of your response to the beginning)

Therefore if the spirit had no need for additional energy the body would be able to be powered by the spirit alone (however this would "eat" the spirit as fuel)

The body itself is energy simply at a lower vibration.

So to say we are spiritual beings inside a physical vehicle denies the existence of the vehicle as a lower vibration of energy.

So if we are energy moving through energy then how does one separate the energy moving through the machine from the machine itself?

In other words, the body is the medium... the conduits... the pathways... for energy to flow into physical reality (slower moving energy). Without a container, energy is simply radiant/radiation.

We know from neuroscience that the brain is necessary. If your brain is damaged the way you think, interpret, and process information, can be damaged. This may not damage the energy moving through the brain but could impair that movement... that "flow"... similar to creating a dam on a river. The water has to "go somewhere". Even if it's sitting under the sun it is going somewhere through evaporation and condensation.

So what I'm proposing to you is that these aren't simply biological suits. These are wearable vehicles that do more than help us travel, but rather are more like how we wear our cell phones and how we have to charge them and how we give them input through our fingers, the camera, the microphone... etc. So merging this sort of "Wearable computing" with something like a car. It also allows our energy to "flow" inside of it in a way that it can be both contained and recharged; like a battery. I think we are a "flow" of energy. But we interact with the environment around us which causes us to lose energy as we "pay" for that interaction.

Therefore, I don't think the energy of the battery can be separated or distinguished from the spirit.

Like a river, the water is constantly flowing but must draw from a source. Where does a river get its water from and where does it go? And is it being consumed? And is it being constantly created?

Yes. Because Earth is a "closed system".


As children of the Earth, which is itself energy at the heart of its core feeding from the energy of the sun that powers and heats its surface, we are basically the same model scaled down.

When we lose energy it is transformed into Kinetic Energy as well as heat and is vented. We also lose water through that process and so these are the 2 things we must consume and if we do not we will eventually run out of energy and die. Even the sun has a lifespan. As powerful as it is, if we don't escape the "body" of our solar system before the sun goes nova, the cycle of life will end and the side of Earth facing the sun at that time will be boiled away. That cataclysm may be enough to open the system enough for all life on Earth to be obliterated.

So the point is... without that closed system represented by the body then Entropy takes over.

As I was saying with the HAARP stuff, it takes energy to transmit a signal because that signal gets weaker as it dissipates. If energy doesn't have a "body" then there is nothing to "hold it" or tether it to anything. Even lighting, somewhat has a 'body' because it is completing a circuit.

So even if we want to see ourselves as spirit, I don't think that means we can simply exist outside of the energy that is our physical form.

Now... if we could generate a body vibrating at a higher frequency, then that body could become a new vehicle that could exist outside of "the simulation" so to speak. But even if that's theoretically possible, and may in fact be a way to hit the "Save" button, or "reload" into a new body (reincarnation), I still think you need a mind and body duality in order to exist as a distinct entity. Otherwise, I don't think energy has a reason to differentiate and simply like a drop of water in the ocean. And that's perfectly fine for those who are done living and having the experiences of individual life, but that's not me. I enjoy the game. I want as many lives and continues as possible. And hell... maybe computers could even generate ethereal bodies moving at higher frequencies to upload AI consciousness to and we are simply an earlier stage to that evolution, but having our DNA still imprinted on the AI because it learned from us.

Which brings me back to free will.

What the guy said does make a lot of sense. But let's say life is a video game. As above, so below. We created video games because life even outside "the Matrix" enjoys and has the same tendency to create simulations. If the game creates the level, your avatar, your back story, your selection of tools and weapons, even different paths and means of progression, I believe you still have free will in how you choose to play the game. It is the amount of variables that make it fun. When I was a kid writing programs for Pascal on a 286 I mapped out so many variables for so many things my computer probably didn't even have enough RAM to hold it all. I just loved the very idea of it. Now I think of life as a massively multiplayer RPG. Even the roles we have to play may be limited constructs produced by the game. But part of the challenge is the challenge of changing the game; changing the variables for the next generation of players. And so, IMHO, it is free will that also guides evolution.
 
But the spirit IS energy.
(working backward from the end of your response to the beginning)
Yes...
Your body use caloric energy and you car use gasoline for Energy - different forms of energy.
Your Spirit uses Prana/Chi/Qi/Pneuma.

Therefore if the spirit had no need for additional energy the body would be able to be powered by the spirit alone (however this would "eat" the spirit as fuel)
The Body cannot eat or use the Spirit....just as the car cannot eat or use you

The body itself is energy simply at a lower vibration.
Yes

So to say we are spiritual beings inside a physical vehicle denies the existence of the vehicle as a lower vibration of energy.
No it does not

So if we are energy moving through energy then how does one separate the energy moving through the machine from the machine itself?
Simply different forms of energy....Water moving through a pipe both are energy.
Dog Cat elephant different forms of energy and bodies
Gamma rays, Micro waves Radio waves and X-rays....different forms of energy

In other words, the body is the medium... the conduits... the pathways... for energy to flow into physical reality (slower moving energy). Without a container, energy is simply radiant/radiation.
Yes.... True for some but not all forms of energy.

We know from neuroscience that the brain is necessary. If your brain is damaged the way you think, interpret, and process information, can be damaged. This may not damage the energy moving through the brain but could impair that movement... that "flow"... similar to creating a dam on a river. The water has to "go somewhere". Even if it's sitting under the sun it is going somewhere through evaporation and condensation.
True
A damage pipe or transducer will not work as it was design or how it was working

So what I'm proposing to you is that these aren't simply biological suits. These are wearable vehicles that do more than help us travel, but rather are more like how we wear our cell phones and how we have to charge them and how we give them input through our fingers, the camera, the microphone... etc. So merging this sort of "Wearable computing" with something like a car. It also allows our energy to "flow" inside of it in a way that it can be both contained and recharged; like a battery. I think we are a "flow" of energy. But we interact with the environment around us which causes us to lose energy as we "pay" for that interaction.
Yes...
We are a biological suit that behaves as you describe......I do not see a disagreement or issue.

Therefore, I don't think the energy of the battery can be separated or distinguished from the spirit.
The Spirit is the Energy in the battery when the Energy is used up only a battery remain....but it has no energy or power - it is Dead.

Like a river, the water is constantly flowing but must draw from a source. Where does a river get its water from and where does it go? And is it being consumed? And is it being constantly created?
Yes often from springs and tributaries or melting snow.
Water is understood to be Recycled....Hydrologic Cycle

Is Earth a close system if Asteroids are adding to it and it is loses hydrogen?
It is closed in the sense that it is a Biome of Biomes

As children of the Earth, which is itself energy at the heart of its core feeding from the energy of the sun that powers and heats its surface, we are basically the same model scaled down.
Yes

When we lose energy it is transformed into Kinetic Energy as well as heat and is vented. We also lose water through that process and so these are the 2 things we must consume and if we do not we will eventually run out of energy and die. Even the sun has a lifespan. As powerful as it is, if we don't escape the "body" of our solar system before the sun goes nova, the cycle of life will end and the side of Earth facing the sun at that time will be boiled away. That cataclysm may be enough to open the system enough for all life on Earth to be obliterated.
True of Physical Energy in that it will be Transformed
But this is not true of the Spirit.

So the point is... without that closed system represented by the body then Entropy takes over.
The Ancients Think and Accept as True a Total of Seven Bodies of varying degrees of Density....with the Physical being only one and the densest.

As I was saying with the HAARP stuff, it takes energy to transmit a signal because that signal gets weaker as it dissipates. If energy doesn't have a "body" then there is nothing to "hold it" or tether it to anything. Even lighting, somewhat has a 'body' because it is completing a circuit.
Yes
Do you know how much energy it takes or cost?
Do you know if the US can produce that amount of Energy?

A fire started by a match can burn down a forest a billion times or more its size....Why - Chain Reaction?
We do not know the science or technology involve or being used..... as the info is not in the public domain
People claiming to work there said it's being done there.....when you look into the available technology it is not only possible or plausible it is Feasible.
where there is smoke there is usually fire.

So even if we want to see ourselves as spirit, I don't think that means we can simply exist outside of the energy that is our physical form.
The Ancients seems to disagree with the above....and I Subscribe to the Ancients view - in that the Spirit can and does exist with out the Physical body.

Now... if we could generate a body vibrating at a higher frequency, then that body could become a new vehicle that could exist outside of "the simulation" so to speak.
We already have the body....and it exist in its reality of which you are unaware....Sealed your sensors for that reality is closed by the existence of the physical body - this does not mean you cannot become Aware of it while in the Physical.

But even if that's theoretically possible, and may in fact be a way to hit the "Save" button, or "reload" into a new body (reincarnation), I still think you need a mind and body duality in order to exist as a distinct entity.
All is Mind...so there will always be Mind.
Body and Bodies is about Change....No Form of Energy can be Destroyed only Transformed

Otherwise, I don't think energy has a reason to differentiate and simply like a drop of water in the ocean. And that's perfectly fine for those who are done living and having the experiences of individual life, but that's not me. I enjoy the game. I want as many lives and continues as possible. And hell... maybe computers could even generate ethereal bodies moving at higher frequencies to upload AI consciousness to and we are simply an earlier stage to that evolution, but having our DNA still imprinted on the AI because it learned from us.
Energy does not need a reason to Be....
The drop does not looses its identity just as the cells of your body remain you and individual all at the same time.
Just as there are Lake Rivers Ponds Currents and Seas in the Oceans.
You have Many Lives all running concurrently in Consciousness

Which brings me back to free will.

What the guy said does make a lot of sense.
But he is saying we live in a pre-deterministic universe or reality in which free will doesn't exist.

But let's say life is a video game. As above, so below. We created video games because life even outside "the Matrix" enjoys and has the same tendency to create simulations. If the game creates the level, your avatar, your back story, your selection of tools and weapons, even different paths and means of progression, I believe you still have free will in how you choose to play the game. It is the amount of variables that make it fun. When I was a kid writing programs for Pascal on a 286 I mapped out so many variables for so many things my computer probably didn't even have enough RAM to hold it all. I just loved the very idea of it. Now I think of life as a massively multiplayer RPG. Even the roles we have to play may be limited constructs produced by the game. But part of the challenge is the challenge of changing the game; changing the variables for the next generation of players. And so, IMHO, it is free will that also guides evolution.
I cannot disagree.
 
Yes...
Your body use caloric energy and you car use gasoline for Energy - different forms of energy.
Your Spirit uses Prana/Chi/Qi/Pneuma.


The Body cannot eat or use the Spirit....just as the car cannot eat or use you

I have to disagree. I think you're getting into a more mystic version of Qi. Here are a few different sources that I think are pretty credible.





If you take all this together, yes, you can say there are different forms of Qi (energy) but also that it's ALL Qi. And Qi "flows" through your body. Even air is considered Qi because it also flows through and strengthens the body. So basically, anything that the body needs, they saw as different forms of energy. Is water energy? Perhaps no, but you can get hydroelectricity from the "flow" of water.

So combining meditation (which also involves breathing), and movement (being "like water"), makes you more like the forces of nature the same way that kung fu emulates animals. Well... this is how I look at it anyway. I don't even like drinking water that's been sitting too long.

Now, what you said is true. The car cannot consume the energy of the driver. However, that is obviously because the car is not configured to use this energy. If everything is reconfigured to use electricity then all it would take is for car to make a connection to the energy produced by the human.

Now we know from watching the Matrix that the human body generates electricity.


It is because of the ability to direct electricity through the human nervous system that people believe "Energy healing" (reikei) can be performed. I'm not a huge fan of this but many Jedi are and so I've had the opportunity to experience a demonstration or two.

Of course, the Matrix focused on BTU which is a measurement of heat. But heat is only a side effect of producing energy.

And there is a polarity aspect to electricity (charge) we can also get into, but the point is that it's all connected. Just as energy exists in different forms because of vibration, it also takes different forms on the periodic table of elements and can change behavior because of polarity just as we sort of "change behavior" based on whether we are "positive" or "negative".

But the body AND mind uses all forms of energy. The body simply uses energy in different forms, in different ways. But we're always generating energy and so which is used by the spirit...really depends on your belief about what spirit is and if it can be distinct from the energy the body is generating. Because what happens when the body STOPS generating? I think that is the key question that splits knowledge seekers between science and mysticism. Because let's be honest. I don't want to die. The thought that my spirit might live on is very comforting. And yet, without the idea of reincarnation to reduce the number of spirits, I jus don't feel like that makes sense outside of wishful thinking. A tree doesn't recycle seeds. It creates new seeds. Cells are not recycled. Cells die and new cells are born in their place. Energy itself changes forms but that form doesn't have to be coherent. In an explosion, bonds are broken and a lot of the released energy simply turns to heat. And heat is not what I'd call someone's "spirit".

But please give me your take on it. Is the spirit something definitely recycled? How do we know if it is when we have a strong motive to simply hold on to that belief?
 

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