Black Spirituality Religion : Alright Brutha Sam...

[Ralfa'il]

You said:

For the sake of collecting your "victory trophy", why don't you do me a favor, and "prove" once more, these "facts" that you claim to have.

PROVE once more that Hebrews are not Hyksos.

PROVE once more that Canaanites are not Black.

PROVE once more that Kemetians (you can't even bring yourself to use the proper name--go figure) worshipped snakes.

Do me this one last favor, and I'll bear witness to everything you say.

Now, in order for you to PROVE anything, you have to provide DOCUMENTATION--Not GOOGLE websites, and not the BIBLE.

Now, you can do as you always do, and talk around my request with more senseless banter, but if you do not do this, then your refusal will be taken (by all who read this) as your concession.

I'll be waiting.

You must be mistaken...I'm not a pimp or sweet talker...I'm a sharp shooter who only comes with direct facts and VERIFIABLE information.

Not some weird rocked-smoke mythology developed in the basement of my ghetto dwelling.

You..my friend...are the one who likes to flood us with a ton of useless information.


But I didn't start this thread for sissified bickering, I started it to end the argument over whether or not Canaanites were black, Hebrews were hyksos, and Egypt has snake worshipping religions.


Now...unless you want to meet up at the corner liquor store for me to show you face to face how wrong and misinformed you've been concerning your own "beliefs"....then websites will have to do.

I suspect you put that little "clause" in the contract about me not using website, the bible or any other valuable reference material in there because you know it's impossible to prove anything to another over the internet without incorporating these tools.

Never the les, let us get down to business.......




Now you said PROVE once more that Hebrews are not Hyksos:

I said no Hebrews WERE NOT Hyksos because Hyksos were Assyrians who invaded Egypt after the Hebrews/Israelites settled there.

Both were Asian, but weren't the same.

Even Isaiah chapter 52 verse 4 said:

For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

Why would the Assyrians be oppressing the Hebrews in Egypt unless they were RULING Egypt at that time?


More evidence of who the Hyksos were...and were not...


"In the 12th Dyn., c. 1991 B.C. the grandson of Mentohotep II was succeeded by the vizier Amenemhet. He began a time of co-rulers. This meant that they would rule with the p. and replace him once he died. During this dynasty:

1. ship building (Lebanon Cedars) for trade

2. canal dug from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean

(Wadi Tumilat Canal)

3. canal dug around first cataract to increase trade with the

Nubians in the south.

4. drained marshes at Fayum, reclaimed 27 000 acres of

arable land.

5. built monumental city - Heliopolis (sun city) NE of

Memphis.

6. attracted the Hyksos (Palestinians, Syrians and

Phoenicians) to work as artisans. They built a kingdom,

Avaris, in the delta region. They had better bows

and arrows and the horse-drawn chariot. In 1 674 B.C.

they overtook Memphis. They permitted the E p. to stay

as a puppet.

They ruled for 100 years. Then Kamose (E p.) attacked them secretly. He regained control but fell short of driving them out of the delta area. His brother, Ahmose, did so. "
http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/waymac/History A/A Term 2/1. Egypt/Egypt_ancient_world_notes.htm


Again, a clear distiction is made of who the hyksos were.

They were the Canaanites/Syrians(assyrians) and other Asiatic people but not Hebrews.





"To the degree that the below maps shows Hyksos settlements (Maskhutah and Sahaba) near the eastern mouth of Wadi Tumilat, perhaps the presence of Asiatics here in the 16th century BCE accounts for the Semitic terms found in the bible, terms like Baal Zephon, Migdol, Yam Suph, and Pi-ha-Hiroth ? A cylinder seal has been found at Tell ed Daba of the Hyksos weather god, Baal Zephon standing over two mountains and a snake below them representing the sea, or Yam, who he defeated in Ugaritic myths. A ship also appears on the seal. Did the Hyksos see the two "slight" elevations flanking the eastern mouth of the Wadi Tumilat depression as being Baal Zephon's two "mountains" ? Was the nearby Lake Timsah Baal's "Yam" ? At Tell el Maskhutah Edouard Naville found a stele erected by Ptolemy II dedicating a Temple to Tum, the god of Succoth (Egyptian Tjeku), the temple was called Pikerehet, which Naville suspected preserved the Exodus' Pi-ha-hiroth, pronounced Pi-ha-kheeroth. Did the Egyptians come to transform Semtic Pi-ha-Hiroth pronounced pi-ha-khiyroth) into Pikerehet ? Or did the Hyksos transform Pikerehet into Pi-ha-hiroth ?"
http://www.bibleorigins.net/MapofPihahirothEthamShurYamSuph.html


The Hyksos worship snakes and other animals and actually introduced much snake worship into Egypt (something else I proved you wrong on).

They worshipped and called their gods "baal" just like the Canaanites and Philistines you read in the bible.

The Hebrews didn't worship more than one god NOR did they call their god "baal".

They called the One God they worshipped Yahweh and the other deities were know as "el".


Jesse Jackson said: But don't stop there....let us keep on...

 

[Ralfa'il]

Now you said PROVE once more that Canaanites are not Black.

I told you that the Canaanites were just another name for the Philisitines and Phoenicians.

I told you that they were related to the Berbers of North Africa and both came from the islands of Greece. They were known as "sea people" by the Egyptians and WERE NOT BLACK!




Here is the evidence that the Canaanites were Phoenicians which you probably already know:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/histcult.html

http://phoenicia.org/history.html




More famous quotes on the Canaanites not being black:


"Jefferson Davis is categorical in pronouncing four million Americans, and all their descendants for all future time, to be "the degenerate sons of Ham," fit only to be slaves. This implies that Negroes were descended from the Canaanites. But the Canaanites were not black! Neither were the great majority of the many millions of slaves in the ancient world. We mention these facts as conclusively refuting Davis¡¯ thesis, even if there is someone not under legal constraint who is inclined to accept the lunatic notion that anyone today can be justly enslaved because of the episode described in the ninth chapter of Genesis."
http://www.gongfa.com/jaffarenziyou.htm



"It is generally agreed that the Canaanites were not black. In the main, they moved into Asia Minor and at least as far east as the Tigris and Euphrates valley....Other descendants of Ham went south into Africa. but not the Canaanites...since the terms of the curse were fulfilled with regard to the descendants of Canaan only, the Negro is not included within the compass of the curse, and the curse has no relation to the color of the Negro’s skin." (The Bible and Race, by T. B. Matson p. 1 12-1 14)
http://www.newtestamentchurch.org/OPA/Articles/1997/08/OPA19970803.htm




"In the Tell-el-Amarna tablets Canaan is found under the forms of Kinakhna and Kinakhkhi. Under the name of Kanana the Canaanites appear on Egyptian monuments, wearing a coat of mail and helmet, and distinguished by the use of spear and javelin and the battle-axe. They were called Phoenicians by the Greeks and Poeni by the Romans. They were famous as merchants and seamen, as well as for their artistic skill. The chief object of their worship was the sun-god, who was addressed by the general name of Baal, "lord." Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, "lords."
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/canaanites.html





Here are pictures of Canaanites as they saw themselves and how Egyptians saw them:


http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/bandstra/RTOT/CH6/CH6_TC.JPG

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/westasia/history/pictures/phoenician.jpg

http://research.haifa.ac.il/~hecht/womanwindow.jpg



Do they look like black people to you?


As I said before, the only reason so many negroes are running around trying to make the Canaanites by black is because they have an inferiority complex and figure since thier former white masters told them Canaan was cursed black...then they must be black.

The is NO EVIDENCE to say that the Canaanites were black outside of a racist Talmud.

You can't even find black Philistines or images of black Canaanites no where in archeology.

This is completely ingrained in the minds of ex-slaves.


But stay tuned...because it gets better....

 

[Ralfa'il]

One of the biggest controversies that both you AND Sekhemu challenged me on was whether or not snake worshipping was practiced in Egypt/Kemet.

I didn't say ALL Egyptians worshipped snake, nor did I say this had always be custom in Egypt.

What I said was, serpent worship was practiced in Egypt at various times in it's history and this was primarily introduced through the Hyksos/Asian invasion.

Some of you went on the war-path, and I had to buck you down in sista Purple's thread with a ton of information to raise you up off my back.

Once again:


"The wide acceptance of the importance of the cobra in the pantheon of the Egyptians can be seen in the common application of the cobra to the foreheads of statues of Egyptian royals and on burial sarcophagi. The cobra seen upon statuary is known particularly as Wadjet. This name, however, blends over the millennia of Egyptian civilization with Isis, via the intermediate name Ua Zit, meaning "supreme queen," through Au Set, and back again into Isis. What matters for this discussion is the devotion of the Egyptians to a female deity, and what that tells about their beliefs surrounding generation.

While a Goddess is worthy of respectful devotion, the cobra enjoyed a familiar devotion which would seem inappropriate to a woman-like deity. "

http://www.viewzone.com/snakex.html




"Animal worship is a cult that appears in many ancient (nature) religions. In these cults animals are regarded as representatives or appearances of the deity, or are attributed divine characteristics. It is partly based on the fact that animals possess qualities that humans lack or have in lesser measures, such as strength or speed, and which inspire fear. Another factor is the mysteries that surround certain animals and this also gives cause for worship. An example is the snake. It is feared, yet in many cultures it is held sacred; it has healing properties or is associated with healing (it is the symbol of the healer god Asclepius) and it is a symbol of immortality (the shedding and renewing of the skin). Important snakes in mythology are the Egyptian Apophis, the world-serpent Jormungand, Ananta of the Hindus, and of course the great Quetzalcoatl of the Aztec.

In ancient Egypt, animal worship was an important part of their religion. The goddesses Hathor and Bastet appeared as a cow and a cat respectively, and Horus as a falcon. Cats were regarded as household deities, and in Memphis the holy bull Apis was worshipped as the companion of the god Ptah. Amon of Thebe was accompanied by a ram, and the scarab was a representation of Khepri, and so forth. "

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=snake+worship+egypt


And look....Egyptians actually practiced a RELIGION!



"Snakes are mostly feared and persecuted in contemporary Egypt. The article raises the question how this attitude is rooted in history and compares the religious treatment of snakes in pharaonic Egypt with the islamic period.
The first part discusses examples for the appareance of snakes in pharaonic Egypt. Snakes are attested in funerary texts from the pyramid age onwards. In magic snakes are fought by spells and magical objects but also invoked for protection. There are cults of snake godesses (Renenutet, Meretseger). Femal deities in general have the tendency to appear in form of a snake.
The second part deals with the attitude of the islamic population of Egypt towards snakes. Snakes do not play any role in official Islam. Nevertheless there are accounts on holy places dedicated to snakes and the veneration of snakes in houses. Further the Sufi of the Rifâ’iyya-Tariqa are specialists in snake charming.
It appears that many parallels exist between the treatment of snakes in pharaonic and in contemporary Egypt. "


http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/nilus/net-publications/ibaes4/abstracts_e.html



Any REAL Egyptologist worth his weight in salt would have known that snake cults were abound in Egypt/Kemet; instead of giving the ancient civilization a false history and romatic spin.

We have to look at history and the facts instead of just going by something some negro dreamt up in the clinic while he was going through rehab and decided to use as material to start a new ghetto-fab religion.

 

[SAMURAI36]

First off, allow me to say that you are one petty dude.

Instead of starting this thread off with an intellectual introduction, you begin instead with this non-sense:

You must be mistaken...I'm not a pimp or sweet talker...I'm a sharp shooter who only comes with direct facts and VERIFIABLE information.

Not some weird rocked-smoke mythology developed in the basement of my ghetto dwelling.

Instead of useless banter, , why don't you begin this discourse with something intelligent?

Would you begin a dissertation at an academic institution with silly talk about "Liquor stores" and what-not?

It's impossible to take you seriously.

Now...unless you want to meet up at the corner liquor store for me to show you face to face how wrong and misinformed you've been concerning your own "beliefs"....then websites will have to do.

Interesting, the place that you would choose for such a rendez-vous......You're telling on yourself here........Why not a library to meet? Wouldn't that be far more appropriate for such a transaction??

Especially considering the fact that the only thing you could offer me in the way of "PROOF" is a list of books--which you have yet to EVER give me?

I suspect you put that little "clause" in the contract about me not using website, the bible or any other valuable reference material in there because you know it's impossible to prove anything to another over the internet without incorporating these tools.

Wrong, I put that "little clause" there, because I know that you haven't read a single book about Kemet.

Without KING JAMES and GOOGLE, you'd be lost in these discussions. I asked you before to give me a list of the books that you'd read about Kemet, and conveniently you never even responded.

But enough of the digression, let's get to your "KNOWLEDGE":

Even Isaiah chapter 52 verse 4 said:

For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

You've already failed my request, because I asked that the Bible be kept out of it, and yet you start your "proof" with it.

Thus, nothing you say henceforth is valid. But let's continue for sport's sake:

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/waymac...world_notes.htm

One of your problems with your participation in "intellectual" discussions, is that you don't even know how to identify whether somethings serves as a "source of reference".

In this first "reference" you gave, there is no bibliography, not even a NAME as to who wrote it.

For all we know, YOU could have written this, and registered it to give it a URL, and posted it here.

Where did it come from? Who wrote it? What is their source? Do you even know?

I don't BELIEVE that you have ever read a single book on Kemet.

There is no correlation with anyother sites, just one single page with some info on it.

And speaking of that info:

In the 12th Dyn., c. 1991 B.C. the grandson of Mentohotep II was succeeded by the vizier Amenemhet. He began a time of co-rulers. This meant that they would rule with the p. and replace him once he died. During this dynasty:

1. ship building (Lebanon Cedars) for trade

2. canal dug from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean

(Wadi Tumilat Canal)

3. canal dug around first cataract to increase trade with the

Nubians in the south.

4. drained marshes at Fayum, reclaimed 27 000 acres of

arable land.

5. built monumental city - Heliopolis (sun city) NE of

Memphis.

6. attracted the Hyksos (Palestinians, Syrians and

Phoenicians) to work as artisans. They built a kingdom,

Avaris, in the delta region. They had better bows

and arrows and the horse-drawn chariot. In 1 674 B.C.

they overtook Memphis. They permitted the E p. to stay

as a puppet.

They ruled for 100 years. Then Kamose (E p.) attacked them secretly. He regained control but fell short of driving them out of the delta area. His brother, Ahmose, did so. "

This is why I asked you in another thread, precisely what time period did your mythical ABRAHAM come to Kemet, and when did your mythical MOSES lead the exodus from Kemet.

You obviously don't know, because at every historical turn, the time period that the HYKSOS invade and leave Kemet, overlaps with the so called Biblical time period of your "Prophets".

Even your Bible says that the "Hebrews" went from Kemet to Phoenicia.

Come 1500-1000 BC, Phoenicia was no longer a Black nation, just like come 1000-500 BC, Kemet was no longer a Black nation.

You quote from the STRONG's concordance later on here; if you had actually read that BOOK (re: you won't find it on GOOGLE), then you'd see when both ABRAHAM and MOSES were theoretically "born".

According to this "info" above from this generic web page, the ASSYRIANS would have been coming into Kemet at the same time that ABRAHAM did.

But wait, that can't be right!!

Anyways, let's continue with your bullet-riddled "info":

Again, a clear distiction is made of who the hyksos were.

They were the Canaanites/Syrians(assyrians) and other Asiatic people but not Hebrews.

Listen to this faulty logic (shakes head):

This generic web page that you quote from, lists everybody within Southwestern Eurasia as a "HYKSOS".

Everyone except the "Hebrews" (who came from Eurasia as well), that is.

Conveniently ironic though, that there is NEVER a name for the "Hebrews" anywhere in Kemetic literature, while there is this generic term for everyone else.

To the degree that the below maps shows Hyksos settlements (Maskhutah and Sahaba) near the eastern mouth of Wadi Tumilat, perhaps the presence of Asiatics here in the 16th century BCE accounts for the Semitic terms found in the bible, terms like Baal Zephon, Migdol, Yam Suph, and Pi-ha-Hiroth ? A cylinder seal has been found at Tell ed Daba of the Hyksos weather god, Baal Zephon standing over two mountains and a snake below them representing the sea, or Yam, who he defeated in Ugaritic myths. A ship also appears on the seal. Did the Hyksos see the two "slight" elevations flanking the eastern mouth of the Wadi Tumilat depression as being Baal Zephon's two "mountains" ? Was the nearby Lake Timsah Baal's "Yam" ? At Tell el Maskhutah Edouard Naville found a stele erected by Ptolemy II dedicating a Temple to Tum, the god of Succoth (Egyptian Tjeku), the temple was called Pikerehet, which Naville suspected preserved the Exodus' Pi-ha-hiroth, pronounced Pi-ha-kheeroth. Did the Egyptians come to transform Semtic Pi-ha-Hiroth pronounced pi-ha-khiyroth) into Pikerehet ? Or did the Hyksos transform Pikerehet into Pi-ha-hiroth ?"
http://www.bibleorigins.net/MapofPi...hurYamSuph.html

The Hyksos worship snakes and other animals and actually introduced much snake worship into Egypt (something else I proved you wrong on).

I really think that you suffer with bouts of low self-esteem, that's why you need to gloat over an imaginary victory that you supposedly had.

Anyways, where in this exerpt does it say SPECIFICALLY that snakes were worshipped?

Please underline it for me in your next response (we all know you're NOT going to do that, but I thought it would be fair to request it anyway )

They worshipped and called their gods "baal" just like the Canaanites and Philistines you read in the bible.

I don't have time to give you a breakdown of "BA'AL" in this thread, but suffice it to say that "BA'AL" is not a term that necessarily denotes a spiritual affiliation.

People and places were also called BA'AL as well. I don't expect you to know that though, seeing as how your knowledge of Semitic linguistics is non-existent.

Nonetheless, I'm still waiting for how BA'AL relates to snake worship, which is your original assertion.

The Hebrews didn't worship more than one god NOR did they call their god "baal".

According to what--The BIBLE?

Since the Hebrews supposedly came from URUQ, by way of ABRAHAM, it's safe to say that their linguistic origin was from the same region that every other group in that region was (so-called "Mesopotamic"). If they made such references, you'd best believe that "BA'AL" was a part of it, especially since they hadn't adopted the "Hebraic" language proper until they came in contact with the PHOENICIANS who they assimilated their language from.

They called the One God they worshipped Yahweh and the other deities were know as "el".

During what time period?? Do you know?

Even within the Chronology of your Bible, you don't even see YAHWEH or EL being used until after the advent of MOSES. How much time would have passed in this mythological story, from the travels of ABRAHAM till the exodus of MOSES?

Do you know?

I'm still waiting for "PROOF".

Proof of snake worship, proof of who the Hebrews were and were not, and Proof of the Canaanites.

Let me know when you have it.

Jesse Jackson said: But don't stop there....let us keep on...

Jesse is also known for making up new words on the spot, because he's semi-illiterate.

Interesting, the people we choose to model ourselves after. :deal:

PEACE

 

[Ralfa'il]

Samurai

Respect

I'm still waiting for "PROOF".

Proof of snake worship, proof of who the Hebrews were and were not, and Proof of the Canaanites.

You're not waiting on "proof"...you're waiting on "poof".

You want anyone who disagrees with you to POOF!...be gone.