Africa : OVERCOMING PERCEPTIONS: African immigrants seek ties, harmony with American blacks

MississippiRed said:
I don't think the Mexicans want Blacks out of the West because of fear...Mexicans in CA have nothing to fear from any ethnic group we're not going to take their jobs or overrun their neighborhoods Mexicans here have whole self contained self sufficient communities and that's not just the Mexican it's most ethnic groups that have a foothold in CA but we don't have that so as far as having something to fear I don't see it...from what I've seen it's the same old racial tension where there are always factions within a group that will hate certain factions of another group and there are certain groups of people in the Mexican, Asian, Pacific Islander, African community that just hate Black folks and for any number of reasons ...I've had issues both physical and non-physical , with almost every minority group in CA but I also am close friends with folks from some of those same groups.....As far as African immigrants go where I live there is a large community of Ethiopian and Nigerian immigrants and this is what I've seen .....for the most part the ones I've met are arrogant and talked down to me as if talking to a child in 1 restaurant I was almost refused service and even with that it was like I was in a zoo and I was on the wrong side of the cage everyone in the spot was just staring at me watching me eat waiting to see what I was going to do.....1 little kid even pointed and that's cool because at times I get the same treatment from CA Black folk maybe it has to do with me carrying the slavemaster's blood but I've personally stopped trying to forge unity with groups and opt to deal with individuals instead and think I'm even moving away from that choosing to spend more time fishing with my kids or dogs....but I digress......

The Africans I've met on a personal level have been maybe a 75 25 deal with 75% being complete arses and 25% being good folk where we could sit and have a conversation and ask honest questions in order to learn about one another anyway that's just from my own personal experience ..


Red
Are you kidding or do you date a Latina? The Mexican/Black rivalry in southern Cali is to the point of a staredown, then interaction. Only in northern Cali are things cool, because the nortenos(red) collaborate with the brothers. Have you heard of the 'eme' gangsters coming in from El Salvador expanding throughout the country, and committing terrible crimes. (Salva-truce) or whatever they call themselves, are now invading northern Cali and are going against the Black crips, and Latino nortenos(red). Belive me many southern Cali Latinos/Mexicans hate Blacks' guts. Why do you think the drug trade fell into the hands of Mexican gangs? Black controlled practically all drug trades in s. Cali in the 90's. Not that this is anything to brag about. Now the rumor is-the Black crips (rollin' 60's) stole around 150 kilos of dope from the Mexican surenos(18th st.), now some Mexicans are shooting/fighting any Black man who wears the crip attire (white tees, jeans). There were even incidents where they were shooting at cars on the freeway from a ped. overpass, school fights instigated by Latinos etc. You may wonder what this has to do with the 'paisas'(regular old-school working immigrants/border brothers), but for almost every one of them, they most likely have one gang member in their family who influences the hate towards us. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an 'inside' job who stole it, they can get us to fight each other, they want us all gone anyway. Just when the Black-on-Black feud has laid to rest, now it's Blackvs.Brown. If you think Mexicans/Latinos are so cool, ask the ones in confinement who they'll side with in a jailhouse brawl:eek: Sure you may have had a dealing or two with all minorities, but the problem is Black/Brown are both struggling to gain nation-wide respect, and since the Mexicans are the newcomers to the game, they may feel we can overshadow them politically.
 
spicybrown said:
Are you kidding or do you date a Latina? The Mexican/Black rivalry in southern Cali is to the point of a staredown, then interaction. Only in northern Cali are things cool, because the nortenos(red) collaborate with the brothers. Have you heard of the 'eme' gangsters coming in from El Salvador expanding throughout the country, and committing terrible crimes. (Salva-truce) or whatever they call themselves, are now invading northern Cali and are going against the Black crips, and Latino nortenos(red). Belive me many southern Cali Latinos/Mexicans hate Blacks' guts. Why do you think the drug trade fell into the hands of Mexican gangs? Black controlled practically all drug trades in s. Cali in the 90's. Not that this is anything to brag about. Now the rumor is-the Black crips (rollin' 60's) stole around 150 kilos of dope from the Mexican surenos(18th st.), now some Mexicans are shooting/fighting any Black man who wears the crip attire (white tees, jeans). There were even incidents where they were shooting at cars on the freeway from a ped. overpass, school fights instigated by Latinos etc. You may wonder what this has to do with the 'paisas'(regular old-school working immigrants/border brothers), but for almost every one of them, they most likely have one gang member in their family who influences the hate towards us. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an 'inside' job who stole it, they can get us to fight each other, they want us all gone anyway. Just when the Black-on-Black feud has laid to rest, now it's Blackvs.Brown. If you think Mexicans/Latinos are so cool, ask the ones in confinement who they'll side with in a jailhouse brawl:eek: Sure you may have had a dealing or two with all minorities, but the problem is Black/Brown are both struggling to gain nation-wide respect, and since the Mexicans are the newcomers to the game, they may feel we can overshadow them politically.


I don't date a latina ...and I know the Mexicans and Salvadorans I'm around are cool as we've been to war together.....Mara Salvatrucha has Black American members, they are not La Eme but do have an understanding with La Eme, 18th Street is not a Sureno cliqa it is the largest Mexican gang in Los Angeles County and also has Black members ...the Black on Black gang beef is not laid to rest and some Mexicans fight Black folks anyway regardless of set or the lack thereof...no body stole 150 chickens from anyone and the Mexicans are not shooting Black dudes wearing white tees and jeans....most crips wear more than white tees and jeans ...a lot of folks wear that ....crips usually have a blue flag or blue shoes..or white shoes with blue laces or not just white tees and jeans.....Nortenos don't like Blacks no more than any other cliqa...Mexican and Black relations are like Black and any other race relations some folks you can work with some you can't...the drug trade wasn't run by Blacks in LA in the 90's we had our part Mexicans had their part...Mexicans humped the dope over and it was pushed in spots by whoever owned that spot...Blacks, Mexicans, Samoans, Asians ......there are always going to be conflicts between cliqas and sets whenever they meet up or look to long or bump somebody that'll never change the same thing happens among Black gangs from what I've seen you live in Sac so as such I'd think you could tell me about West Sac and Del Paso Heights but you don't know as much about Mexican gangs in Southern Cal and Northern Cal as you may think nor do you know as much about the dope trade down there and the work between Blacks and Mexicans in that trade as you may think..I'm not speaking from rumor I know Members of XIV, Sur13, La Eme,Red Machine and MS13 Mara Salvatrucha...and have know some of them since I got to SD in 89....Mexicans in CA aren't jealous of Blacks they have what we want and need ...they have self sufficient communities we don't ..they have political power in CA we don't and as such what would they be jealous of us for.....when we have those things ...much like we do in some of the Southern States maybe then that will be the case but for now we are irrelevant to them....

MississippiRed
Save Tookie Williams
 
African immigrants face bias from blacks
Tension climbs highest in poor communities

Monday, February 13, 2006
By Ervin Dyer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

In 1989, Zedueh Doerue, a proud and traditional-minded father of eight, smuggled his family out of civil-war ravaged Liberia into Guinea, a more stable West African nation to the south.

http://www.post-gazette.com/images3/20060213rrimmigrants0213_120.jpg
Zedueh Doerue:
"I don't understand it."

Before long, Guinea, a former French colony, began to slide into political unrest as well, and Mr. Doerue was jailed and harassed as an insurgent because he spoke English.

Four years ago, a Catholic refugee resettlement program brought him to Pittsburgh, where two of his children were born. Now, working as a nursing assistant and living in a two-story Bon Air home, Mr. Doerue and his family would seem to have left danger and chaos behind.

But Mr. Doerue, 44, said that for the last year he's been continually harassed, his children have been bullied by neighborhood thugs, his car damaged and the windows on his home have been repeatedly broken.

Mr. Doerue has called police because he feels "hunted" by the perpetrators, who he claims are mostly black youths.

Police are unclear on the motives for the attacks, and Mr. Doerue said, "I don't understand it."

He's not alone. Many sociologists and researchers are trying to understand the relationships between black Americans and a recent boom of immigrants who have come to America from Africa and the Caribbean.

It is not always an easy transition and black Americans and the immigrants find they are being forced to confront complex issues of identity, ethnicity and community.

"As a general trend, the two groups are having tensions," said Jacqueline Copeland-Carson, a scholar with the Hubert H. Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota and author of the book, "Creating Africa in America."

The tensions can be especially raw and violent in urban communities struggling with poverty, she said, as black Americans who feel economically trapped clash culturally with immigrant Africans who have escaped turmoil worse than Hurricane Katrina and may have stereotypical views of black Americans as being lazy or glorifiers of gangster life.

There are other barriers that create problems, too, said Ms. Copeland-Carson, who studies contemporary immigration issues.

These include widespread ignorance about the history of ethnic groups and nationalities and not understanding how others define their identities.

For example, she said, in Nigeria alone, there are more than 250 ethnic groups. Africans don't come here with the same racial notion of "black" identity that African Americans have formed, said Ms. Copeland-Carson.

Furthermore, she said, when immigrant Africans move into communities of concentrated poverty, where people are already struggling with low-wage jobs, they are often seen as economic and political threats.

When the misunderstandings loom that large, "even by speaking English with an accent," said Ms. Copeland-Carson, "[immigrant Africans] can become the enemy."

Mr. Doerue says his children were picked on and targeted simply because they speak differently.

Accents can also target immigrants as people less familiar with the system and thus more vulnerable to scams, robbery or attack.

Some of the 30 to 40 Somalian families in town have faced other hostilities from black Americans.

Their dress, mannerisms and accents mean they stand out as foreigners in many neighborhoods, said Joshua Kivuva, a University of Pittsburgh teacher and Kenyan native who helps ease the families into life here.

In Northview Heights, there are allegations that a Somalian has been threatened with a gun; in Homewood, a Somalian middle school student has had a gun pointed at him, and a Somali mother in Homewood has been told she needs to move to be safe, said Mr. Kivuva.

In Oakland, with its stew of international students and faculty, the immigrant Africans can fit in, said Mr. Kivuva, but in low-income areas open conflicts are more likely.

"I think the perception is that [immigrant Africans] are given priority for services and that causes tensions," he said.

The tensions surface not just in Pittsburgh, but across the country.

Three months ago, a 13-year-old Ghanaian boy was brutally beaten, police say, by black American youths in his neighborhood in southwest Philadelphia.

On occasion, the conflicts turn deadly.

Congo immigrant Nzubamunu Mitete, 51, a Pentecostal preacher, was robbed and murdered in Lincoln-Lemington while driving a jitney on a cold December night. Police say his attacker was a young black man.

Thirty days later, David Agar, 24, a "Lost Boy," one of the survivors of the conflict in the Sudan, was killed while leaving an Uptown club. Police arrested Todd Akrie, 26, of Windgap, charging him with robbery and homicide in the incident.

While issues of racial identity and poverty can heighten the hostility of black Americans against immigrant Africans, said Ms. Copeland-Carson, the rancor against newcomers is nothing new.

"In the early 20th century, there was enmity against Irish immigrants and Italians," she said. "This dynamic is a piece of the ethnic history of the United States."

To make it more confusing, said Mr. Kivuva, is the fact that most immigrant Africans hear from black Americans that whites can't be trusted; but, in Pittsburgh, he said, few black organizations help the Somali families that he works with.

"The person who comes to the house with bread, who comes to read to a student, who takes children to the zoo," said Mr. Kivuva, "is a white person."

The solution to help everyone get along is using common ground to build bridges, said Yinka Aganga-Williams, an immigrant Nigerian who works with local groups to ease immigrant transitions into Allegheny County.

What black Americans need to understand, said Ms. Copeland-Carson, is that their culture, from spirituals to food to healing practices, is an amalgam of African traditions. It can be revitalizing to re-link these cultures with immigrant Africans.

Likewise, black Americans who have survived in this country can help immigrants sustain identities in schools and help build political coalitions.

The glass is not half-empty when it comes to relations between the two groups, said Ms. Aganga-Williams, who warned that media stereotyping paints a picture that all black Americans are harassing Africans.

"I don't think they are being targeted. [David Agar] went to a bar, and there happened to be a bad guy there. I don't think Mitete's killer set out to kill an African immigrant that night.

"There are people in Nigeria, Ghana, wherever you're from," she said, "who get killed from this kind of robbery every day.

"I just think we never hear about the ones who have said this is my African-American friend, and he truly wants to hear about Africa."
 
Black on black crime always makes me shake my head in disappointment and disgust. However I’m curious why every case of African American and immigrant African violence or dispute happens to land in the paper, internet, or TV; when most individual cases of black on black crime receive no attention? Obviously it is on many sociologists and researcher’s agenda to try and promote disputes as more persistent than what they actually are. It is to white society’s benefit to keep our communities disconnected, because an alliance between Continental Africans and those in the Diaspora is their greatest nightmare. Still it is happening slowing but surely!
 
panafrica said:
Black on black crime always makes me shake my head in disappointment and disgust. However I’m curious why every case of African American and immigrant African violence or dispute happens to land in the paper, internet, or TV; when most individual cases of black on black crime receive no attention? Obviously it is on many sociologists and researcher’s agenda to try and promote disputes as more persistent than what they actually are. It is to white society’s benefit to keep our communities disconnected, because an alliance between Continental Africans and those in the Diaspora is their greatest nightmare. Still it is happening slowing but surely!

Thanks for the reply. I already said what I mentioned before. Everybody has their own way of understanding things. And thats how I like it to be whether for the greater good or to promote fear and ignorance. We all get to chose which side we want to promote. Until we all understand that we are all we got, dont be suprised by more of these issues gaining momentum.
 

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