Black Spirituality Religion : Why was Cain's offering not respected?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by UBNaturally, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Did the LORD contribute to the hate of Cain for his brother Abel, and his eventual murder?


    Gen 4:1
    And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

    Gen 4:2
    And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    Gen 4:3
    And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

    Gen 4:4
    And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    Gen 4:5
    But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    Gen 4:6
    And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

    • Was the LORD not a vegetarian?

      Meat = Yum Yum to the LORD?
      Vegetable = Yuck to the LORD?

    Did Cain bring rotten produce as an offering?
    What kind of respect was Cain not getting in relation to Abel?

    The text doesn't really elaborate on the criteria for these desired earlier offerings

    This is the only context that can be found:

    Gen 4:7
    If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


    Cain didn't do well by bringing the LORD fruits?
     
  2. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This kind of offering had to be an unspotted lamb for the slaughter, symbolic of Christ's blood, going to the slaughter like a lamb, his blood Atonement for us all. He being unspotted or without sin offered to redeem us.
     
  3. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Shew this in the writings and where this was mentioned to Adam, Eve, Cain, or Abel.

    Thanks in advance
     
  4. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I wrote extensively on this topic about 8 years ago. Based on my research the answer is deeper than what Black people have been taught byway of the Slave master. It's science based and historical. the answer to this question is:

    IDOLATRY!!!

    Cain not only tilled the ground for AGRICULTURE, but he tilled it much deeper! He was and became a MASTER METALSMITER [Metalsmith] as is confirmed byway of the following Biblical account of his very offspring!

    This is why the Creator did not have respect for Cain's offering. He brought him a 'dead' image of something fashioned from the ground! As the Bible is flooded with scriptures that pertain to how the Creator loathed Idols and Idol worship. But many people in the ancient days were obsessed with Idols due to the idea of 'death' and 'ending' of which was foreign to them at various points in history.

    Cain and his descendants both correlate to agriculture and metalsmithing. In fact, his descendants brought a the era of PLANTER-GATHERING in which people went from hunting all of the time to a more sedentary lifestyle where crops were made and farmed. His descendants also became known for cattle farming. And because of all of this in addition to metalsmithing, the Cainites became the very first people to develop a civilization that became known as the first CLASSICAL AGE.

    So, the creator did not have a problem with agriculture. But this scripture here:

    Gen 4:7
    If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
    __________________________________

    It refers to "sin lieth at the door", meaning his future wife!--the Seed of Satan. She was older than him, and she was the one to introduce IDOLATRY to him. Because Cain, as the firstborn son of Adam, was also of 'the priesthood' and etc. and when he bonded with Satanism, it would be through Cain, that Satanism gained access to the things of this earth that was supposed to go to God's creation. This portion of the Bible is deep, but critical to understand. Satan government is Matriarchal. God's government is a priesthood. And the reason for the Matriarchal system is also connected to science. Anyway, this is what I've researched.
     
  5. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ok, I can dig all of that...

    But within context how does one get from:

    "Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD"

    To...

    Cain brought an idol that was fashioned from the ground?


    When I read "fruit", I don't think of dirt, timber or stone.
    Mind you, Cain was later cursed to barren lands, so this could be why he was a planter/gather as so the story goes.

    Now as for the "seed of Satan"... this may be outside of the scope of the rejection of the fruit offering, but will entertain it further.

    Thanks for the input, and let's continue this dialog


    Respect
     
  6. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Evidence: This was a "sin" offering, not a tithing. If it were a tithing offering it would be one tenth which would be more than one lamb and more than one squash. The prophets of the old testament, Moses being the first books of the Old Tesstament; "We have found of whom Moses in the law (Old Testament) and the other prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the (step) son of Joseph." This shows that the Old Testament prophets knew all about Jesus Christ, of corse.

    Speaking of Jesus "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter" Isa. 53: 7 He is the blood offering to redeem us and make it possible for forgiveness that we can become worthy for Exaltation with the Father and the Son. "When the Father shalt make his soul an offering for sin. Isa. 53: 10
     
  7. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    How is this to be considered evidence?

    Not to mention that it adds more confusion and questions:

    First-
    • One claims this was a "sin offering"...

    So this would mean that Cain should have brought some of Abel's sheep instead, correct?
    Even still, there is no mention that this was considered a "sin offering", but I'll accept this opinion as conjecture for now until the writings are presented.

    Second-
    • The prophets of the old testament, Moses being the first books of the Old Tesstament; "We have found of whom Moses in the law (Old Testament) and the other prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the (step) son of Joseph

    This is alot of "using new authors to prove the old authors knew something of the future"

    Only place one finds the mention of the prophets knowing about "Jesus" is in the New Testament:

    Jhn 1:45
    Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

    • The closest thing we will find in the Old Testament that Philip may have been referring to in relation to Moses would have been the passages of Deut 18:


    Deu 18:15
    The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    Deu 18:16
    According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

    • Notice, this is a reference to when the children of "Israel" heard the voice of the LORD, and they were afraid and retreated from the request in which Moses was seen fit to act as an exclusive mediator. (Exodus 20:18-22)

    "Raise up unto thee a Prophet", which would be the common theme of the prophets.

    Not to get off the topic of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel bringing forth offerings and the text that represents what these were and were for, and why Cain's was unsatisfactory....

    But will entertain these side comments for a bit more


    Also, written in Isaiah

    Isa 49:1
    Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

    Isa 49:2
    And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

    Isa 49:3
    And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.


    Isa 49:5
    And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

    Isa 49:6
    And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    Isaiah is speaking of himself, "Judah and Israel", which is the context



    Isaiah 53 is a reference to Judah and the suffering it was going through, but wont claim it wasn't a subtle reference to the Messianic concept. Not going to extrapolate these though as it would stray completely away from the topic of the offerings of Cain and Abel.


    To clarify, one is stating that Cain's offerings were supposed to be burnt meat offerings for sin?
    But again, would like to see where this is written as there is really no details as to this ritual prior to Abram and Isaac.


    Thanks
     
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  8. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you. I would absolutely LOVE to continue on this subject in dialogue. This topic Cain and his descendants is one of my favorites.

    And, yes, I can certainly understand why it would seem odd, that this scripture could relate to "fruit" coming from the ground as dirt, or stone, or timber. But because I've done so much reading and research in the past in this regards, I still do believe that is exactly what it means. Also, like you, it just seems weird that the Creator would reject Cains' offering if it really was "fruit" in terms of agriculture.

    Again, if you read the Genesis about Cain and his descendants, they definitely became agriculture farmers, cattle farmers, and also master metalsmiths. So in terms of "fruit of the ground' in regards to "metalsmith" and also "stone works" and etc. I would love to share much more about why I do believe Cain brought the Creator an Idols fashioned from something like stone, clay [ie. pottery] or some kind of metalwork or etc. In order to understand my approach, it is crucial to put both Biblical historical accounts on a timeline and compare it with secular historical timelines, and then more truths might come to light.

    I base my Biblical research on timelines that stem from the time of the Roman Empire and then, I counted backwards and then forwards, and contrasted and compared, and saw that the Bible account matches secular accounts to certain issues exactly! I also believe that secular historians and scientists LOATH the Bible accounts because of how it pertains to the presence of Black people and it highlights White Supremacy. So, they have spent a lot of time trying to hide history behind terminology and etc. so, I like to highlight certain terms in regards to the history of Cain and his descendants and their connection to METALWORKS and the fruit of the ground they highly prized and were obssessed over, namely:

    the AMRATION PERIOD
    the NAQADA PERIOD
    the GERZEAN PERIOD
    the BADARIAN PERIOD,
    the COPPER AGE [CHALCOLITHIC AGE] and
    the JOMON CIVILIZATION and etc.


    Based on a general guideline, Cain would have lived during the 3000s BC. But more specifically, Adam would have been created around 4022 BC, and therefore Cain would have been born around 3900-3800s BC. Now, based on the Bible, Cain's descendants that were masters of Metalsmiths and that developed a Classical Civilization would have peaked around 3500BC. Now then, if you read about the secular periods that I've mentioned, you will see that the history of Cainites match this time period exactly!

    These secular periods also are stated to overlap and there is a very important reason; it is due to how the Cainites migrated and came into other lands. So, yes, it would be true that Cain was banished to barren land, as you say, but he was not tied down! lol! Cain became 'a wanderer and a vagabond' so to speak'.

    His descendants definitely migrated down into the Southworld and not only that, but they took over the lands and dominated over the Southworld [Seth world]!

    Also, NODEAST [ie. Northeast] was a direction, however, the movement was gradual; over a period of time. So, the history of the civilizations that developed Nodeast from a point of origin [the guarded Den of Eden] 'the Middle East' area would have been ANCIENT ANATOLIA and then farther northeast and at a time when the earth was one mass. When you read about this area and the far east, it becomes obvious that these ancient people were obsessed with metals and idols and digging! The artifacts in museums today a overwhelming and around these time periods as well, which would be the 3000s BC. So, I will post some references. ... continue

    The Copper Age (3500 - 2300 BC)
    http://www.iceman.it/en/copperage
    ________________________________

    Late Neolithic/Late Copper Age 3500-2200 BC
    CHAPTER August 2011

    ABSTRACT
    By the beginning of the Late Neolithic/Late Copper Age, most of Europe was occupied by farmers. Only the coniferous and tundra areas of northern Europe remained inhabited by hunters and gatherers….
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226939736_Late_NeolithicLate_Copper_Age_3500-2200_BC
    ______________________________________________

    The Amratian culture was a cultural period in the history of predynastic Upper Egypt, which lasted approximately from 4000 to 3500 BC. [1]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amratian_culture

    The Naqada culture is an archeological culture of Chalcolithic Predynastic Egypt (ca. 4400-3000 BC)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqada_culture

    [​IMG]
    3800/3500 BC, black topped ware

    [​IMG]

    continued...
     
  9. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    MORE FRUIT OF THE GROUND from the ancient days in the northeast, that is Ancient Anatolia [Turkey]:

    [​IMG]
    Anthropomorphic "Idol" | > 3500 BC | Price $0.00 | Anatolian ..

    [​IMG]

    43,Kiliya idol, marble, Anatolian, Chalcolithic Period, circa 3300


    [​IMG]

    anatolian marble idol culture anatolian period 6000 3000 b c material

    [​IMG]

    Gold Ring "Idol" | > 3500 BC | Price $0.00 | Anatolian .

    [​IMG]

    Anatolian Head Of A Marble Kilia Idol , > 3500 BCE. The Kilia type is

    [​IMG]
    Triangular "Idol," 3500 BC | Anatolian, Syrian.
     
  10. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    So the after effect shows cause for the reasoning of the rejection?
    Cain was essentially cast out, so he created his own supposed idols, isn't this what happened?

    Pottery and metal workings could have been what was used to carry the fruits in, from the words of Martin "what the problem is?"

    The problem is that the meat offering was a "sweet savour" unto the "Lord".

    There was a need for this particular "God" to partake of flesh, it often liked it cooked through really well, no blood.

    This was an offering for a continual union.

    When Cain did not give of the "sweet savour" of flesh, the fat thereof as well, it did not please the appetite.

    Doubt this?

    Let's go to further into Genesis, and then into Leviticus:

    Gen 8:20
    And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

    Gen 8:21
    And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.


    Consider the practice of placing cookies out for "Santa", this was akin to the passover tradition of the lamb and lamb's blood. I conclude this has something to do with "Pan", might touch on that later.

    But looking further in Leviticus, we see the practice of cooking animals for the "Gods" was more like a treaty to keep the "Gods" happy and peaceful upon them.

    Lev 1:13
    But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.


    The next chapter really shows out...


    Lev 2:1
    And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:

    Lev 2:2
    And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take there out his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD:

    • They were battering and seasoning the meat to cook for the "LORD", it's right in the text.


    Lev 2:4
    And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil.

    • Even asked for some flat cakes (cornbread) to go with the fried chicken and c.r.a.c.k.e.r.s.
    • Or Fish and Chips, either way

    I mean nearly all of Leviticus 2 is about how to cook the food properly, as if these were recipes that the "LORD" gave them.

    upload_2016-3-8_18-44-18.png
     
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