Black Spirituality Religion : Why Our People Won't Embrace Their Own Heritage

uplift19 said:
First, I am not a brotha



I think you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that any material comfort should make us complacent, nor am I "closing my eyes to the plight" of my people. I am just saying, which I think is being taken a little too far here, that this is where I am and it is here I must make a difference. I have to reach my people where they are, and I think we are in disagreement about what that "spiritual anchor" is that will change their reality. I am not a materialistic person who thinks I can amass wealth or anything, not sure how you got that impression. I was simply commenting on a human level, not a political/spiritual/revolutionary one, that the little house where I grew up was not evil just because it is in America.



MTV cut him off, but he was not killed. He still enjoys his ridiciulous amount of wealth and if we want to point fingers at materialist then maybe we should direct them to him instead of me, just because I like my modest dwelling :) Or maybe I'm missing something here, maybe everyone else is living in some authentically African cottage or house that makes them better than me even though it is still in America. What are we really talking about here?



Wow, maybe I shouldn't have tried to discuss something so basic in such a politically charged forum. The point I was trying to make was about my small life, not about the international implications of our suffering.

I am not sure how this got to this point, but I (again, I'm not a man) think global issues affect me. This is not at all what I'm suggesting. I'm just not seeing any solutions suggested here except for embracing Africa in some idealistic way. This I do not understand, for as I have stated Africa itself is in peril just as Black folks are all over the globe. There are more people of African descent in Brazil than here, so why not start closer to home?



But again, just as my example of Oprah, where are we going back to? And if we find out precisely from whence we came, how significant will it be to our current situation? Oprah is not moving her girl's school to Liberia. I am not sure where this impression that I do not understand the universality of Black folks and the fact that we were present at the begininng of time came from. I think that we have to be balanced, and look at the whole picture instead of picking a period of time that we are comfortable with.



After all of that, I think you're finally getting to your point. What religious system are you referring to that supported our enslavement? There were so many hands in slavery that no one is exempt from their role, regardless of their spiritual persuasion.

It is obvious that the so-called Christianity white folks fooled our people into believing as slaves will not liberate us. I am not suggesting this either. So I wonder, what is the real disagreement here?

This is impressive sister Uplift19. You have a very balanced and clear thought process. I enjoy reading you! :coffee: :coffee:
 
Before heritage there is identity.Now,some of our people reject their own heritage because they do not know their identity,or refuse to acknowledge anything that came before them and the individuals who tell them what they can and cannot be refuse to allow them to think that they can be anything they chose to be. A man once said that "Slaves and dogs are named by their owners,free men name themselves."People have a tendency to grow affectionate to any country that they live in when their ancestry takes them back to another continent or group of people.That is overstandable,but affection to a country and affection to the controllers of the country are two different complexes. It is a degree of brainwashing involved and some people always say that "You are being stuck in the past" but what they fail to realize is that you have to look at what you passed and possibly forgot in order to move forward and be able to see what is beyond your immediate vision.

People will not embrace their heritage until they find (or imitate anothers) identity,on an individual basis and a communal.Since many people embrace the concepts of outsiders to their own as the gospel,they will continue to embrace the outsiders concepts of identity and therefore heritage.How exactly do we get them to embrace a heritage that flows throught their veins rather than a heritage and identity that flows through social construction as well as ideas?That is a good question,the answer may start with the individual and not with the group,we are constantly changing ourselves to be ourselves in the form that is dormant within us all,those who acknowledge it will know it and embrace it,those who completely ignore it will continue to live in the darkness.Those who are looking for it but do not always have the $$$ to get what they need(like me) are only waiting for the time to come when it can be embraced.Brainwashing was and still is being done to us,but is is a process,I guess the evaluation of someones identity can undo the process.


The benefits of looking back are in terms of defining what you are and what you are not,what concepts or pratices to throw away and what ones to keep,lastly what you still have to be as an individual and as a community being that the discovery or uncovering of oneself will allow one to think "outside the box" or just blow the box to pieces altogether.Once the box is destroyed,new ideas and concepts will sprout as solutions and possible solutions to future adversity.
 
Sista uplift19(I apologze for my mistake),

SAMURAI36 said:
I know of numerous Africans who are willing to take people with them when they go home, for the sake of experiencing their home with them.


uplift19 said:
That may be a moving experience, but what will it change about the present reality of Black people in the Americas?
Throughout this thread you have suggested more or less subtly that African spirituality would not make a difference in the lives of African Americans. This is where Sam and I are coming from. In this entire forum we both have proactively promoted African spirituality. So naturally we would ack anyone to explain the suggestion that our people would not benefit from our own heritage.

When Sam questioned you you mentioned how happy you are with your house and other material things. You may not have intended to do so but this seems to suggest materialism on your part.

In your initial post you mention that all the Africans you know practice Islam or christianity. This statement seems to imply that an unknown number of Africans represent a statistically significant abandonment of African spirituality on the African continent so why should we in America embrace what the Africans themselves have abandoned. Again, this may not have been your intention.

Yes, this thread is about African spirituality and why our people do not embrace it so in a way you have only offered another reason to the ones mentioned in my first post. Because you chose to be the "devil's advocate" you put yourself in the position that when Sam and I addressed the issue we also addressed you as an advocate of that issue.

I hope this will help you better understand why we said what we said.
 
This is a very nice thread and a very thought provoking thread that deserves a little of my attention. Let us first deal with the facts as they realte to reality...and this is for the realist.

1. What we are encountering and claim that we are living in America is not reality. What in this country outside of death is real? Do we have real education? No. Do we know real health? No. Do we basically have a real diet? No. Do we have a real image of self that instills and fosters the continuity of who we are as a people? No. Do we have a real religion? No. Do we have any sense of values that inspires our growth and development as a people? No.
Do we have in "our tiny little bubble" of life, any real concept of living? No.
Is there a difference between life and living? Yes. Is there a difference betwwen religion and spirituality? Yes. Is there a difference between reality and illusion? Yes....between reality and artificiality? Yes.

2. Having said that, maybe we need to understand the difference between ARTIFICIALITY AND REALITY. We've been accepting one for the other and calling it living when it's not. I challenge you to travel the world and see how and why people feel the way that they do about America? Even in Europe itself which is the Mother of America, she acknowledges that her child (America) has become something that even she no longer recognizes as being something that came from her womb. What does this say in reality?

3. As for the fact that the realist now finds themselves in America and encased in the illusion of America should in itself be the most upsetting thing there is, if they are a realist that is. The past, the present and the future are not some seperate entities. They are a continueos thread bound together which can not be cut. To cut the past leaves you no realistic understanding of the present or of self. to cut the present leaves you no realistic understanding of the future, where you may be going or how to get there. The thread is connected always.

4. Because it is connected, it allows you to understand if your "present is a correct one based upon the past"...and if it isn't correct, it allows you to alter it so that your future can be as it should be as opposed to how others would have it be for you...not only for you, but for your children and their children. The realist should know that our ancestors fought tooth and nail to try and retain who they were, where they came from, what their language and culture was. The realist should know that our people had these things "FORCED OUT OF OUR ANCESTORS".

5.The realist should acknowledge that; "you just aren't going to TAKE SOMETHING FROM ME THAT ISN'T YOURS, CAUSE IN REALITY, THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY I GET TO TAKE IT BACK, I'M TAKING IT. THAT IS THE REALIST!!! The realist has the mentality and attitude that says; "f@ck what you gave me...where's my chit???!! Where's my chit that you stole??!! Where's the chit you took from my mother, my grandmother, my great grandmother and so on??!!! Where is it?!!! That's the realist. If you encouner someone promoting where we are right now and who we are right now...they are not a REALIST. THEY ARE AN ASSIMULATIST...with no fight, no courage, no understanding, no pride, no motivation or foundation of self that keeps them rooted to reality. The assimulatist will assimulate to where ever they are, how ever they are defined and whatever is given them. They are not rocking any boats and d@mn sure have no understanding as to why anyone else would want to rock it. In their minds, "we're already out in the middle of the water, what we going back for now??...lol"

I will return to deal with the religious aspect and why our people are having a hard time accepting our heritage, cause there's a little trick to this
.
 
river said:
Throughout this thread you have suggested more or less subtly that African spirituality would not make a difference in the lives of African Americans. This is where Sam and I are coming from. In this entire forum we both have proactively promoted African spirituality. So naturally we would ack anyone to explain the suggestion that our people would not benefit from our own heritage.

This is what I pointed out, that you and Sam accused me of materialism, lack of idealism, loving Rome, and a whole host of other things simply because it seems we do not agree. It is possible for a person to have ideals even if they are not your own?

How do you define African spirituality and what you believe is "our own heritage"? (Not just in a compare/contrast view of western religions.)


When Sam questioned you you mentioned how happy you are with your house and other material things. You may not have intended to do so but this seems to suggest materialism on your part.

I was just attempting to bring up a thought of mine regarding our own human nature that was ultimately politicized. I explore the things that come to my mind without always having some grandiose ideal to connect it to. It was just a point of discussion and something I was reasoning through, which is what I thought this was all about.

In your initial post you mention that all the Africans you know practice Islam or christianity. This statement seems to imply that an unknown number of Africans represent a statistically significant abandonment of African spirituality on the African continent so why should we in America embrace what the Africans themselves have abandoned. Again, this may not have been your intention.

Again you are reading implications where there are none. I spoke of my personal experience, and made it clear that my experience in no way is representative of any statistical significance. I was hoping those of you who advocate for these vaguely defined (in my mind that is) African traditional religions would be able to provide more insight and maybe even data about what this group of people is all about and how many of them (you) actually exist. I am not seeking to cause dissension, but am sincerely raising points of inquiry that are being viewed as attacks.

I do take issue with an oversimplified view of what is and is not African. Ethiopians were Christians before missionaries, some Africans were muslims before they were slaves in America, and yes, some Africans practiced what are called "traditional" religions.

Yes, this thread is about African spirituality and why our people do not embrace it so in a way you have only offered another reason to the ones mentioned in my first post. Because you chose to be the "devil's advocate" you put yourself in the position that when Sam and I addressed the issue we also addressed you as an advocate of that issue.

My initial (and very short :)) post was to play devil's advocate, yes. But it was also to address a point of view that is different from yours, and how you would address that point of view.
 

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