Black Spirituality Religion : Why Israel Thought The Egyptians Had Many Gods

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by river, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    I've been thinking about this based on the knowledge I've gained at this site. I'd like to share some thoughts with you. Note that I'm not saying this is what actually happened but this is a probable hypothesis given the facts and assumptions that we have.

    First I start with the premise the ancient Kemet recognized only ONE Supreme Being or God. They gave this God many names according to the divine principles associated with his attributes and interactions with nature and man. This is where the Israelites got the notion of giving God many names--Jehovah Rapha, Jehovah Jireh etc.

    Now the Hyksos (Israelites) sojourned in Kemet as nomads. Therefore they were exposed to the open practices and ceremonies of Kemetic spirituality but were not privy to the esoteric meanings behind these practices.

    Moses (or the body of leaders represented by the name Moses) having grown up in Pharaoh's court would have a deeper understanding though not necessarily a complete understanding of Kemetian spiritual matters (Acts 7:22). He also knew his people--what they could and could not fathom. This is why in the wilderness he was able to give the people an exoteric version of what he had learned in Kemet.

    These are people coming out of a nomadic traditian who had really no sense of themselves as a people with a distinct culture. It was necessary for Moses to make them believe his teachings belonged to them as a people in order to establish them as a people. They would not have embraced his teachings as hand-me-downs from another people. Nor could they have understood the deeper esoteric teachings in which Moses had been educated.

    For this reason an "our God against the gods of the Egyptians" situation was created.

    This is unfortuanate. Both Moses and Jesus tried to move the people forward into the esoteric truths behing the Mosaic Law but the leaders--the Pharisees, Sadducess and scribes--who profited so much from the exoteric exercises of the religion would have none of this.

    Anyone want to offer an opinion or addendum to these ideas?
     
  2. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    Talk to me, scholars and teachers
     
  3. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Messages:
    6,489
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    priest
    Location:
    new jersey
    Ratings:
    +1,064

    You've made a number of excellent points, I will have to meditate on this.
     
  4. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    I look forwar to the end result of that meditation. It's sure to bring up something poignant.

    Hotep
     
  5. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,630
    Likes Received:
    38
    Ratings:
    +39
    Peace and respect Sister river,

    I don’t want to debate this in the idea of, “what is one compared to four or a multitude”

    I think the overall construct is flawed, in other words we have to always choose in the confines of an ingrained dialectic…. basically, if god is not one, then he is many…if he is not many, than he is one…If he is not pure spirit, than he is anthropomorphic and if he is not form, than he is ethereal spirit. If not he, than she is the greatest and if that don’t work, god is given both sexual organs…

    All of this is the convolution of mankind…I’m not really a polytheist or a monotheist, but like I said before, “show me one of anything in the universe” …each manifestation of a human being is unique with certain universal characteristics and some particular designated natures (i.e., male and female)…well so is the cosmos and the perceived or unperceived higher order of things…let’s keep god or the gods in the group with us and not remove god from the order of things.

    Ase!
     
  6. diakonos

    diakonos Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1
    This is an interesting thread, however some of the points that you made were not accurate.
    This is wrong. The Israelites gave God many names out of their personal experiences with God. For example, when Abraham was shown the lamb caught in the thicket of bushes that God provided him to sacrifice instead of his son, he named the place after God according to who God was to him at the time…
    Yahweh Yireh/Jehovah Jireh (The Lord will provide)
    Moses didn’t give his people “an exoteric version of what he had learned in Kemet.” He gave them what he learned from Yahweh (I Am/ The God of Abraham).
    12 The LORD said to Moses, ‘Come up to me on the mountain, and wait there; and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and the commandment, which I have written for their instruction.’ 13So Moses set out with his assistant Joshua, and Moses went up into the mountain of God. Exodus 24:12-13
    This point is also in error. The children of Israel had a sense of culture. Furthermore, Moses was exposed to this culture, prior to his exposure to Kemetic Culture. After Pharaoh’s daughter found Moses, she paid his mother to nurse him until he was of a suitable age to move in to Pharaoh's house.
    Then his sister said to Pharaoh’s daughter, ‘Shall I go and get you a nurse from the Hebrew women to nurse the child for you?’ 8Pharaoh’s daughter said to her, ‘Yes.’ So the girl went and called the child’s mother. 9Pharaoh’s daughter said to her, ‘Take this child and nurse it for me, and I will give you your wages.’ So the woman took the child and nursed it. 10When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter, and she took him as her son. Exodus 2:7-10
    Also examine this scripture
    One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to his people and saw their forced labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his kinsfolk. 12He looked this way and that, and seeing no one he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. 13When he went out the next day, he saw two Hebrews fighting; and he said to the one who was in the wrong, ‘Why do you strike your fellow Hebrew?’ 14He answered, ‘Who made you a ruler and judge over us? Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?’ Then Moses was afraid and thought, ‘Surely the thing is known.’ 15When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from Pharaoh. He settled in the land of Midian, and sat down by a well. Exodus 2:10 – 15
    Despite the fact that Moses was educated in the ways of the Egyptians, he still identified with the Hebrews. That’s why he killed a man in anger for abusing “one of his kinsfolk.” If you read further into that same passage of scripture, you will also see Moses trying to act as a mediator between two fighting Hebrews. He says, “Why do you strike your fellow Hebrew?” This is not the picture of a man who did not identify with the Hebrews(his people). Furthermore, when Moses had his encounter with Yahweh (God/The Lord), look at how God introduces himself to Moses.
    He said further, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. Exodus 3:6
    Here is the question (rhetorical question) I am asking. Why would Yahweh refer to himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob if Moses didn’t know who any of these men were? I also find it interesting that after Moses married Zipporah, he lived with Jethro, the High priest of Midian. Guess who the Midianites descended from…

    Abraham.

    So you see, Moses had ample exposure and opportunity to learn about his own culture. As far as laws and statues of Israel are concerned, the Bible shows that Moses and his Brother Aaron were given these laws, statutes and ordinances directly from God.

    The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: 2This month shall mark for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for you. Exodus 12:1-2

    The LORD said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance for the passover: no foreigner shall eat of it, 44but any slave who has been purchased may eat of it after he has been circumcised; 45no bound or hired servant may eat of it. Exodus 12:43

    The LORD said to Moses: 2Consecrate to me all the firstborn; whatever is the first to open the womb among the Israelites, of human beings and animals, is mine. Exodus 13:1-2


    ...and so on and so forth.
     
  7. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    You're like an oracle when you talk, Bro Sun Ship.

    Yes, we know that God is God and any honest notion we Have of him/her must be prefaced with a big IF. Some of us think we can find God in a book. But soon the book becomes god as we defend what it says in a misguided effort to defend God. Then God gets twisted around until he is all but unrecognizable just to fit the book.

    We can't leave God out of the picture but we can go back to the original sourrce or at least to those with whom God interacted first and realize that those who took from them got their ideas about God from tham.
     
  8. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    lend me some sugar.. l am your neighbor
    Ratings:
    +70
    peace river.

    Your whole hypothesis is awry, though. l think you have a flawed understanding of the things you have said (no pun).

    Time allows me, l'll respond point by point.

    p.s,
    were you a minister or preacher before??
    just wondering.
     
  9. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    lend me some sugar.. l am your neighbor
    Ratings:
    +70
    your response is not ignored, bruh. it's loud, clear and truth.
     
  10. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    If you can respond intelligently with historical facts that's fine. My hypothesis is based on the historical fact that much of what Moses and Jesus taught were already recorded in the Kemetian scriptures and even the Bible tells us that Moses was educated in Kemet (Egypt). It is secondarily based on the fact that outside the Bible there is absolutely no record of a Moses or of Hebrew enslavement in Kemet (Egypt). If you can refute my hypothesis by presenting evidence to the contrary it is your right to do so. However,if all you plan to do is tell me the Bible is true because it says it is true then you could probably find something more efficatious to do with your time.

    And please don't turn this into a debate thread. We know what the Bible says. But you don't know what the Kemetian scriptures say so you cannot really argue from the vantage point of knowledge.
     
Loading...