Black Spirituality Religion : Why Is The Black Stone Black ?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by IssaEl21, May 31, 2004.

  1. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Muslims Believe That Black Is Evil And A Sin . They Say The Black Stone Was Once White And Over The Years As Evil People Kissed Or Touched It , It Turned Black ,
    Says The Prophet ; The Black Stone Descended From Heaven It Was Whiter Than Milk ; But People's Sins Have Blacked It < Tirmidhi From Ibn ' Abbas , Kitab Al Hajj , Chapter 49 > Yet , If You Really Get Close To The Stone , You WouldSee That It Is Not Black But Dark Brown As You Can See In Many Muslims Books , Isn't That What They Call Nubians In This Day And Time '' Black '' Even Though Thy Are Brown ? So What About The '' Dark Skinned '' Arabs Wh Make Pilgrimage And Kiss This '' Black '' Stone Whose Color Is Symbolic Of Sin ? This Is Subliminally Suggesting Black Is Evil Which Would Include Them Also . Isn't This A Racist Concept Which Has Been Incorporated Into You Pligrimage ? :read:
     
  2. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I am not apprised of any racial connotations re: the Ka'ba, IssaEl21. The Qur'an says the following:

    “Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the Station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma’il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves therein in prayer." (Sura 2:125)

    The Ka’ba is a cubed-shaped temple rebuilt by Abraham and his son Ishmael that stands in the middle of the Great Mosque of Mecca. It is reverently draped in black cloth throughout the year, and it beckons every Muslim in the world to come to its sacred ground.

    The Ka’ba is the canonical center of the Islamic world, and every pious act - particularly prayer - is directed toward it. Once a year it plays host to the greatest convention of religious believers, and stands ready to sanctify the Umrah traveler through the balance of the year.

    Placed into the Eastern corner of the Ka’ba rests the Hajar al-Aswad ("The Black Stone). During the Tawaf (“performance of the Hajj”) pilgrims kiss or touch the black stone as they circumambulate the Ka’ba.

    There is no indication as to where this stone originated, although the general consensus of opinion among Muslim scholars is that it is probably of meteoric origin. But since it pre-dates the revelation of the Qur'an and Muhammad's Prophethood, it must stem from the time of Abraham...since the Hajj traditions are traceable to the patriarch of monotheism.

    It is remarkable, however, that even though the temple contained 360 idols worshipped before Muhammad's Prophethood, the black stone was never kissed or made an idol of worship. In fact, the Ka’ba was never worshipped by the idolaters prior to Muhammad's Prophethood. The building contained idols of worship, but the building itself was never an object of worship.

    It is a historical fact that the Ka’ba was rebuilt by Abraham. In addition, since the stone has been there ever since, it stands to reason that Abraham placed the stone in the Ka’ba. The Black Stone is in fact the cornerstone of the Ka’ba, and is there as an emblem of the progeny of Abraham that was rejected by the Israelites and became the cornerstone of the Kingdom of God.

    The Psalms contains a clear reference to it:

    “The stone which the builders refused is become the headstone of the corner.” (Psalms 118:22)

    Ishmael was looked on as being rejected by God, or so the Israelites believed. Yet it was a progeny of Ishmael that the Last Prophet, “the headstone of the corner” was to arise.

    While David referred to it as “the stone which the builders refused,” Jesus spoke of it more plainly in the parable of the husbandman, telling the Israelites that the vineyard, which in the parable stands for the Kingdom of God, would be taken away from them and given to “other husbandmen:” that is, to a non-Israelite:

    “Did ye never read in the scriptures. The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?” (Matthew 21:42)

    “The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

    That by the rejected stone in the prophecy (21:42) was meant a rejected nation (21:43) is made clear by Jesus Christ. That this rejected nation was none other than the Ishmaelites has been borne out by history.

    The Black Stone, therefore, passes for the mithaq, the primordial covenant” between the Creator and His created. And in the whole world there is only this unhewn stone, the stone, “Cut out of the mountains without hands” (Daniel 2:45), and that is the cornerstone of a building, which in point of importance, stands unique in the world.

    Touching or kissing the stone has a profound impact on the faithful as it is suppose to count in their favor on Judgment Day. The great Muslim traveler from Valencia, Ibn Jubayr (1145-1217 AD) describes the emotion he felt on touching the stone: “The stone, when one kisses it, has a softness and freshness that delights the mouth; so much so that he who places his lips upon it wishes never to remove them. It suffices, moreover, that the Prophet said that it is the “Right Hand of God on Earth.”

    The single most important reason for kissing the stone is that Prophet Muhammad (saw) did so. No devotional significance whatsoever is attached to the stone. The Caliph, Umar ibn al-Khattab, made this crystal clear when - on kissing the stone himself in emulation of the Prophet - he proclaimed, “I know that you are but a stone, incapable of doing good or harm. Had I not seen the Messenger of God kiss you – may God’s blessing and peace be upon him – I would not kiss you.” (Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Hajj, p.642)

    Kissing or touching the Black Stone is a reverential act of acknowledgment that God’s hand directed its placement and construction; that Abraham and Muhammad (saw) had touched and kissed the stone; and an acknowledgment that God had entrusted the cornerstone of His religious central focus for man upon that hollowed and sacred place...
     
  3. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As- Salaamu - Alaykum


    So Your Saying My Post Is Wrong Yes ? Ok :t :sand:
     
  4. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As Salaamu Alaykum

    Question , For Orthodox Sunni Muslims , Did Allah Tell Muslims To Kiss The Black Stone AnyWhere In His Quran ?
     
  5. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    No. We have known the working procedure of the Tawaf, it consists of circling around the Ka'ba seven times. Each circle begins by kissing the Black Stone, or by caressing it, which is its normal procedure. But Tawaf is not a one-man business...hundreds, even thousands, are circling the Ka'ba at one and the same time. How could each person kiss the Black Stone separately? Naturally, when so overcrowded, the kissing will have to be dispensed with by some or many of them. At such times it is quite enough therefore, to face the Black Stone from any distance, and only point at it by one's right hand, at the start of each circuit. The pilgrim then recites his formula and proceeds on.

    And IssaEl21, kissing a stone is not a sign of its worship at all. Kissing the Black Stone cannot be twisted into an idol worship, for the stone is no image, just as mere kissing is not worshipping by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone might allege that Muslims do worship a certain "idol," but the fact remains that they do not worship anything save Allah (swt). The idol and its worship simply do not exist. The Bible is kissed in courts of law...does that mean then that it is worshipped? Moreover, parents kiss their children lovingly, without any trace of worship in it at all...

    A big question that should come to one's mind are the pre-Islamic Arab idolaters who had held the Ka'ba. With all their polytheism and idolatry, they too used to circle the Ka'ba and kiss the Black Stone. Had their kissing been an act of idol worship, why then was there still a need for them - despite the presence of the Black Stone - to install 360 idols therein? This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that it is one thing to kiss the Black Stone under Divine orders, and quite another to worship a stone or an idol. Most notable, perhaps, is the fact that Muslim worshippers do nothing beyond simply kissing the Black Stone. They neither venerate it with folded hands, nor kneel down, nor prostrate themselves, nor squat before it. For all these is done only by idol worshippers before their idols...

    Ma Salaam.
     
  6. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What is the source of your information?
     
  7. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Question , For Orthodox Sunni Muslims , Did Allah Tell Muslims To Kiss The Black

    No , He Didn't , First Of All The Prophet Abraham Was Told To Encircle The Ka'ba And Worship There , Not To Kiss The Black Stone . You Won't Find It , This Is Something They Made Up ( An Innovation ) . The Kissing Of The Black Stone Is Called '' Istilam ''Which Is Said To Mean '' He Touched Or Reached The Stone ,
    [ Meaning The Black Stone Of The Ka'ba ] By Kissing , Or With The Hands , Etc ,
    ( Lane Arabic - English Lexicon , Book 1 , Part 4 , ) It Is Said By Them That The Prophet Muhammad Touched It With A Stick So If They Truly Follow Everything He Did , They Should Do The Same , This Goes To Show That You Orthodox Sunni Muslims Pick And Choose The Sunna Of The Prophet That You Wish To Follow And Call That Correct . ( NoWhere Is Kissing Of The Black Stone Found In The Quran , It Is A Man - Made Tradition According To This Hadith ; )
    667. Narrated ' Abis Bin Rabi'a ' Umar Came Near The Black Stone And Kissed It And Said , ''' No Doubt . I Know That You Are A Stone And Can Neither Benefit Anyone Nor Harm Anyone Had I Not Seen Allah's Apostle Kissing You I Would Not Have Kissed You . < Sahih Al Bukhari , Volume 2 , Page 391
    Here They HaveThe Great Calip , '' Umar , Speaking To A Rock ! The Hypocrisy Of The Orthodox Sunni Muslims Innovation Is Very Plain To See . On The One Hand , They Say That It Should Be Kissed , On The Other Hand, They State That ; ...Hundred , Even Thousands , Are Circling The Ka'ba At One And The Same Time , How Could Each Person Kiss The One Stone Separately ?? Naturally , When So OverCrowded , The Kissing Will Have To Be Dispensed With By Some Or Many Of Them . At Such Time It Is Quite Enough , Therefore , To Face The Black Stone From Any Distance , AndOnly Point At It By One's Hand , At The Start Of Each Round .
    Is The Black Stone An IDOL ? Is Pilgrimage APagan Rite ? , Abdus Samad Sharfuddin , Kazi Publication , Illinois , 1974 A.D. , Page 8 .
    So Then Kissing Of The Black Stone Is One Of Those Things Which Men Decide When It Should Or Should Not Be Done , It Is Not Ordained By Allah ; Therefore , It Falls Into The Category Of Innovation , Kissing The Black Stone Is SomeThing '' New '' Which Has Been Added By Men After ALLAH Declare That He Had Perfected Islam .
    The Quran 5 ; 3 ( In Part Originally The 112th Chapter Revealed In Medina 627 - 329 A.D. - Verse 3 Revealed In Mecca 632 A.D. )
    This Day Have Those Who Reject Faith Given Up All Hope Of Your Religion ; Yet Fear Them Not But Fear Me . This Day Have I Perfected Your Religion For You Completed My Favor Upon You , And Have Chosen For You Islam As Your Religion .
    Stop Making A Mockery Of The Words Of Allah ! There Is No Such Thing As A Siratun Saghir Or A Siratun Kabir . There Is Only One Sirat , Siratul Mustaqim = The Path Of Those Who Stand Straight In The Sight Of Allah . If You Orthodox Sunni Muslims Don't Want To Walk On The Siratul Mustaqiym , Then You Are Just Fake Muslims You Are Acts As Hypocrites When You Recite The Sixth Verse Of Suratul Faatiha = Chapter Of The Opening At Every Single Worship When You Say < Show Us The Straight Path > The Orthodox Sunni Muslims Religion Is Not The '' Straight Path '' . You Are Deviators Because You Follow The Books , Laws And Regulations Established By Men . True Muslims Obey The Words Of Allah Whether The Quran
    ( The Quran 3 ; 3 ) The Torah [ 5 Books Of Mose - The Quran 5 ; 47 , 69 , ] The Injil
    [ Evangel Revelation - 22 Chapter Of The The Messiah Jesus The Quran 3 ; 48 ] The Books Of The Prophet ( The Quran 4 ; 164 ) These Are All Commandment Sent Down By Allah To Guide Men Aright . When Will You Orthodox Sunni Muslims Stop Playing With Your Lives The Live Of Your Children , The Future Geneations And Get On The Right Path ?
     
  8. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As Salaam Alaykum < Aqil >

    My Source Of Information As You Say ...Come From Questioning People Like Your Self And Doing My Own ReSearch , For You See 90% Of Religous People Don't Want To See The Racism In The Religion , In The Many Forums It Come In . Such As, Just LQQK In Any Of Your Holy Book Be They Quran Or Bible Etc. What Images Do You See Written By Your Authors . Socalled Religious Scholar / Theologian , 95% Of White , They Have Thinking Yashua And Muhammad As White , They Have The Muslims Worshipping Muhammad And Not Allah , Now You Going To Say You Don't But You Know You Do , Because EveryTime You Speak To A Muslims He Or She Says Muhammad This Or Muslims That They Never Say Allah . And The Poor Christian Are Truely Lost They Worship The Son Yashua , And The Foolish Among Then Even Call Him God , And They Say They Are Following Yashua , But You Hear Them Say Paul Say This Or That . The Minister / Imaan Etc Will Tell You Race Doesn't Matter But They Will Give You A Holy Book Full Of White Images . But Wont Dare Give Their Childrens No Books Full Of Nubians Images And Tell Their Children This Is Yashua And Muhammad . My Point Every Other Race Have Their Muhammad / Yashua Etc . LQQKING Like Them But Us .. When Ever A Person worshipping Image That Doesn't LQQk Like Them , Then They Are Giveing All Their Power To That Image .
    Is Darkness Evil ??
    And , It depends on which point of viewyou see it from , the religious point of view or the Scientific point of view , LQQking as it from the religious point of view , Darkness is considered Evil , and Chaos , and Light isconsidered Good and Knowledge That's The Caucasians Canaanite point of view Their Racism . White Good And Black Bad But As You Can See They Lied , They Are Wrong , LQQking at it from the scientific point of view , Light Is Considered Chaoe And Darkness Is Considered Good , If You Sit In A Dark Room , You Feel At Peace , Just As You Were In Your Mothers Womb . You Felt Secure , HowEver , As Soon As You Turn On The Light , You GIVE Birth To Chaos , For The World Was InA State Of Peace AndDarkness , Before The Eloheem ( Gods ) Turned On The Light , Then Gave Birth To Caucasians The Curse Seed Of Canaan / Canaaite Genesis 9 ; 25 <<< And he said Cursed be Canaan a servant of Servants shall he be unto his brethren , Also Read Genesis 10; 15 - 18 ... Which Have Been Causing Havoc And Evil Since The Beginning Of Time ,, Job 1 ; 7 << And the Lord said unto Satan Whence comest thou ? Then Satan answer the Lord , and said , From going to and Fro in the Earth and from walking up and down . in it ..Also Read Proverbs 22 ; 15 ...Darkness Has Become A Tool Of A Race Of People Who Want To Make All Other Of Colour Feel INFERIOR , Using The Devil Through Fear And Scare Tactice , The Unseen World , The Spirit , The Spook And The Ghost , Even Your Version Of The Bible Says God Was In Darkness First , Or Moves In Darkness Genesis 1 ; 2 <<< And the earth Was Without Form and void and Darkness was upon the face of the deep , And the Spirit Of God Moved Upon The Face Of The Waters . ... You Have From The Darkness Eloheem ( Gods ) , Came The Light Sun A Star Jehovah , The Lord , Don't Fear I We Worship The Most High God Elyon Al Genesis 14 ; 18 .. < By The Way >
    Belief Is Ignorance . Belief Is To Ignore The Facts Intentionally Or Ignorantly , If One Has To Believe , It Means He Or She Does Not Know . And If One Does Not Know , That Is Ignorance . Hence Belief Is Ignorance And Religious Belief WithOut The Facts Is Ignorance , ( Got The Point ) .
    :sand:
     
  9. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As Salaamu Alaykum < Aqil >

    What Does Allah Ahad Means ?
     
  10. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What is the source of your information?


    Irrespective of your arbitrary opinions, can you refer me to any documentation stating that Muslims believe that black is evil and a sin?

    Are you Muslim, IssaEl21?
     
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