Black People : Why/How can a man walk away?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by cocobutterskyn, Jun 12, 2001.

  1. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I read a poem N2 posted today. It pierced my MIND, HEART and SOUL. It inspired me to ask a few questions. I don't know if these have been asked before, but here they are.

    How can a man walk away and shirk his fatherly duties?

    Why do they?

    Do they even think about it? and finally,

    Do the sense a lose, like a piece of them is missing?

    Please someone enlighten me? Coco
     
  2. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    No obligation to be responsible?

    That is a complete copout. This is the kind of reply I would expect from (some) men who places blame on a girlfriend/wife for him having an AFFAIR. The all to common excuse, If I was getting it at home I wouldn't have done it. ACCEPT responsibility for our actions. The minute a man has SEX with a woman he's responsible or should be. Now that doesn't mean he wants a child, but the possibility is ALWAYS there, BOTH should be responsible REGARDLESS of how the situation occurred the reponsibility of the child should be both PARENTS. You're correct 2+2=4, just as man+woman having SEX could =BABY, therefor= Mother and FATHER. You CANNOT substract the man's responsibility in that equation. Let us look at it from the children's perspective, Son/daughter I didn't and wouldn't love and nurture you BECAUSE I didn't want a child, I just wanted to have SEX with your mother. Consentual sex, Ummmm, if the condom breaks and a child is conceived does that equal CONSENTUAL CHILDREN? Or ACCIDENTAL CONCEPTION inwhich the mother still remains solely responsible? I would like to see things change for the CHILDREN'S SAKE. We always lose sight of what's REALLY IMPORTANT in this situation. Wedlock and consentual sex are important, however, when a child is conceived they should take precedence and BOTH parents should do what's RIGHT for the child, because in all of this the child is the only one who DIDNOT CONSENT to ANYTHING, but is condemned to a life of dysfunction, because we adults have consentual sex that could lead to us being parents and not being adult enough to accept responsibility(SAD) In reference to believing sex equals ownership, that holds no water. the ownership is the child if conceived. In the dictionary legel right defines ownership, in this case Moral right should define it.
    You're also correct with your comment, sex is so easy to get from (some)women, but that DOESN'T mean men have to accept it so easily. That is his choice. My opinion on competitiveness, in this case shouldn't be an issue. I feel morals and respect of others are. The next door neighbor will take the man in, but she doesn't DRAG him in.
    Now,History and Documentation doesn't mean JACK. The only History and Documentation that means anything, is the SAD history(failed relationships,abandonment of their own children,bitterness) a child could have growing up fatherless and All the Documentation(police,doctors,death records) that could plague them.

    I would like to add, I'm married. My son and daughter were conceived in wedlock. What is his excuse? He was a great father and a good provider DURING the marriage. However, after separating he seem to think it's nolonger his responsibity. I am not. I can provide for myself,but he should provide assistance with the care of his children. I don't dwell on his failure to be a father and I'm not bitter because of it. Bitterness would be unhealthy food to feed my son and daughter. I will continue to do what is important for them despite their fathers, my husbands behavior. I do confess of my disappointment in him, but hey! life goes on, my children and I will survive.

    Thank you Kemetstry for your great feedback. I hope I wasn't rambling? Don't worry I don't run from the kitchen when it gets hot.:) Some people try to make 2+2=6 that's why todays world is so MESSED UP! if people would just do what's RIGHT the world would be RIGHT........Coco
     
  3. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Is this a joke.

    Do you believe this because the law says it? and if so, if it was to chance tomorrow would you agree to the change? I hope you would subject your child to a life of dysfunction if conceived by any means simply because the law says it's a woman's responsibility. The law doesn't say it is. If that was the case there wouldn't be such massive mothers down at the courthouse. Most being awarded child support.
    One thing I've learned in my 38 yrs is. men NEVER takes responibility for anything unless it's good. He doesn't take to well to failure. not all men, some.
    I have questions for you. If you were a child whose father walked away would that excuse fly with you?
    I would like to be clear on something. You wouldn't care what happens to your child if birthed out of wedlock?
    How can 2 people engage in an actual and only one maked the choice?
    Has anything I stated in my last reply held water with you? If not,
    there comes a time when a person should know when they're beating their head against a brick wall. I agree to disagree......However, I must say. in defense of the thousands of fatherless children.....THIS IS NO JOKING MATTER. ITS ONE OF THE MANY DISEASES THAT IS KILLING US SLOWLY. WHAT A PITY. Great topic Kem..........COCO
     
  4. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Kem

    I'm not sure if you're asking me why women allow themselves to become single parents, but I'll go with it.

    My opinion refers back to my statement on Emotional Imbalance. I also believe in some cases plain ole LAZINESS. too lazy to take the pill the way it's prescribed, too lazy to put a condom on before indulging. What gets my goat is, it takes maybe 5 mins. to put a condom on or pop a pill in your mouth, or deal with years of parenting. Sad to say many choose to be single parents......Coco
     
  5. dnommo

    dnommo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    well, i rarely join in onsuch topics for the opinions are usually full of emotional attachmant from past events, BUT, i must say that the initial line of questioning is distrubing. Can we be real here? I don't always agree with Kemet's views, but I repsect his opinions. On the subject of Fatherless homes can we realize that it is not always the MAN that walks away? More than often the woman decides that the man is not doing all that she expects him to do to take care of his family without realizing that the basis of it all comes down to two different mindsets. Males are practical thinkers who look for the ways to provide for their families in a monetary and spiritual level. Females are emotional thinkers who rely on feelings to make decisions. This gives them the nurturing and emotional attachments in the household. The two together in the home form a balanced training for the child to be brought up. Now when one of the two is removed from the home, the other must step forward to provide the whole equation. The norm for today's society is to give the child to the mother because of the nuturing mindset. The male may be out of the home but his concept of being a provider is still there...

    Where we go wrong is that when two people decide on "sex first, relationship later" concepts that turn two willing sexual partners into two unwilling parents. There is no understanding of each other. The time it takes to find out if this is the type of person we want to spend the rest of our lives with is now forced upon us during the time of pregnancy. This is definitely the wrong time for that. And, unfortunately, this also occurs in marriage. There are many couple who fidn it easier to end the relationship over an argument than to stand their ground and work it out. Sad but true.

    Well, i went off the subject for a minute so let me return. It is not always the males decision to not be in the home. What about the male who works two and three jobs to provide for his famiy only to come home to find his girlfriend/wife/baby's momma in bed with another man? What about the male coming home and his lady telling him that they don't need him anymore. Then after the woman has totally shut out the male they get mad that he left and begind to stand up and say he's a deadbeat dad. Now there are some who REALLLY don't want anything to do with their families but the majority has more extenuating circumstances than that.

    Coming from a personal level, my daughter's mom decided that she wanted to do things on her own. She was jealous of the fact that i made more money, drove a nice car and didn't ahve to take my kids to the circus every other day to gain their love. I spent time with thme, helped them with their homework and put them to bed while she (the innocnet woman) was busy scrweing her boss. Now, although i was making $40,000 and she was making $18,000 she felt she was better off by herself. She decided to go off on her own and live her life that way. My daughter suffered because of this. Ther lost their apartment, their job and everything and instead of working with me to get back on their feet, they chose to make me the reason for the downfall. It was my fault because "I walked away." Truth was, I didn't walk, she left: left to be on her own, left to get pregnant by another man, left to do things better, because i wasn't doing it her way. Society has done well to build the ERA's concept of independence up so much that interdependence has no chance. A strong black woman is not one that can do things better than males. A strong black woman is not one that can raise a child by themselves because they feel the father is inadequate. A strong black woman is one who is willing to share the responsibility without it being a concept of "if you wanna see this child, it'll cost you." Now i don't believe in the "kitchen and the bedroom" saga but i do beleive in "shared responsibility" without the rear of losing hold on the reigns of individuality.

    Although many may want to believe that it is all the man's fault, the man is suffering from the decisions of the woman. It goes all the way back to the book of Genesis and we have been walking in it ever since. And the sad reality about that is this, the woman that i have talked to about the Adam and Eve story all say that it is the males fault for he should not have listened to the woman. These are the same ones who say "my man ain't no good cuz he not doing what i tell him" or "if he was a real man he'd make his own deicisons as long as they agree with mine..."

    Let's stop bashing the man and putting all the blame on them and realize that some of these single parent homes are that way because the female chose to be alone. They are not that innocent. Let's also stop placing the blame on one person for the minority of the male population are the ones who left because they didn't want to be a father. The majority want to be dads but there are things (and people) standing in their way...

    just expressing my views on this matter...
     
  6. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    dnommo

    I wasn't blaming the men. I was looking for understanding from men and women on why they think these things happen in (some) situations. Of course there're exceptions in every situation.
    I do realize that men aren't always at fault just as women aren't. There're good/bad fathers just as there're good/bad mothers. I'm a woman therefor I feel I have some understanding on how/why we display certain behavior to certain situations. I'm searching for understanding in this topic. I'm not here to blame, case judgement or man bash. It isn't my place.
    I have my personal experiences, but I won't allow them to close my mind to finding understanding nor will I let it tarnish my mind to think that all men are the same.
    If the roles were reversed, I'd do whatever I could to care for my child. If the other parent sets up roadblocks then I'd take other avenues (courts,go through other ppl who have the childs best interest at heart) to do what's right. I've heard some, again I say SOME cases where as the men felt the monies were going to the womens needs and not the childs. I'm sure there're SOME cases like that, but if you spend time with the child and they look/seem cared for, then continue giving what's needed. However, if that isn't the case not giving isn't the answer. It only causes suffering for the child. I'll be the first to say that SOME women use the child as a payback for whatever they feel the men has done to them, this is wrong. There're cases when the men refuse to give as payback for whatever they feel women have done to them, which is wrong also. I agree with you when you stated some topics can be full of emotional opinions. My first thought to Kems reply, now why he gonna go and piss me off, all he's doing is hatin on women. That reaction was that of a woman to protect her fellow woman, as men protect their fellow man. In that we sometimes fall short on seeing the wrong and right in situations. I appreciate your input as I'm sure Kem does/will. I would like to see other men reply their opinion as well as some women, even if it doesn't agree with mine. I want to learn and understand, through that comes harmony. I just feel the need to post some of the actions parents take to cause pain and suffering for their ex partners......

    Won't take/spend time with the child, cuz it will give her/him time to do other things date/hangin out etc.
    Bad mouth the ex to the child trying to get the child to see/feel what you see/feel.

    These things do affect the ex-partners, but the child gets caught in the crossfire and their parents selfish war wound them with emotional scars that will never heal or take almost a lifetime trying.

    Time is free doesn't cost a thing, but is priceless to a child.
     
  7. dnommo

    dnommo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    you made some valid points but i was really trying to express that single parent homes is two-fold; that it's not always the man that leaves. I have read Kemet's views before...I was really saying that to some extent he does have a point as well as replying to the inital question. Basically waht if intentions was to seek a change in the question for Father's Days seems to bring more pain than good.

    Parenting to a dual occupation. Although there are many wonderful testimonies to successful chirlrearing by single parents, it should not be that way. Unfortunately there are a minor group of woman who have intentionally manipulated the sexual situation in order to get pregnant. In other words, lie to the man in order to lock them into some sort of permanent attachment. Tha should not be. But there are also some men who seek to not use a condom and, when the moment arrives, chooses to use the woman as a "recepticle for their salaciousness." This is thier way of keeping the woman as close tot hem as possible. There are manay parameters to this discussion but i wanted it known that it is not always so one sided ( as many choose to make it). As Kemet says, "We reap what we sow." This should apply to everyone, not just woman, not just man.

    always open for discussion and this topic has opened me to post some biblical understanding of the roles of males and females in understanding further why things happen the way they do. I have been studying further the Adam and Eve story adn this posting come right inline with what i was reading. Be on the lookout for it n my column...

    thanks for your response and if there is any more questions i am always open for discussion...
     
  8. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You're welcome
    and thanks for your replies.
    I'll be sure to keep watch on your column.

    I have so many topics I'd like opinions on, I'll consider posting them soon. Thanks again. Coco
     
  9. cocobutterskyn

    cocobutterskyn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    OK Kem, Here we go................

    I'll post my next question.
     
  10. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Touching on the Coco's topic......

    I know this is an old post, I'm new to the site and came across this topic and wanted to comment. I'd like to add some input on this subject. I think what Coco meant in posting the topic is not so much as blaming who is responsible(correct me if I'm wrong Coco)but, pyschologically speaking, notwithstanding a relationship with the woman, be it negative or positive, or strictly sexual. How can a man shut down all emotion, and connection knowing he has a child and simply walk away. I agree with Kem as far as women taking the responsibility to protect themselves, if they are not ready to possibly take care of a child by themselves. (I don't mean if you're married). I had a child by a man that simply walked away, the position I took was this...I gave him the opportunity to step up to the plate, he refused. I went on with my life. I married, found a man that accepted my child as his own and he has been a father to my son for 20 years. I feel like this, if a man refuses to accept the responsibility of a child, ultimately it is his lost, because even though the emotional connection is not there, at some point in our his life we get older and we mature. Things that didn't seem so important, has much more meaning and thats when regret sets in. My son's biological father has missed out on the growth and accomplishments of a beautiful child that became a strong black man, whose love and respect will go to another man. I have no regrets, because sometimes the best thing is to move on. I have been married to this man now for 19 years and he is the "TRUE MAN". My life is better for it. So I say to women who are raising children by themselves, I know it is hard, but hang in there because what you put into your children as they grow into adults you get back tenfold and your child's biological father will not be the better for it....... Because what you reap, so shall you sow.
     
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