Black People : (Why) Do We Crucify Our Own?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Destee, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Destee

    Destee STAFF

    United States
    Jan 22, 2001
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    betwixt and between
    Peace and Blessings Family,

    After experiencing the MLK thread, i'm left wondering, what Sister or Brother would willingly, enthusiastically, give their life for us, considering how we tear them apart, piece by piece?

    Not only how we tear them apart, but how we oftentimes fail to support their effort, their life's work, to help our own people. I'm reminded of a thread i started some time ago, speaking about, Benefits Package For a Revolutionary. It didn't get too many responses :(

    Considering the dire condition our people are in world wide, do we make the task all the more challenging, because we relentlessly (and often unfairly) critique each and every person that has the willingness and/or resolve to step up and do the job .. while all the time, not being willing to do the job ourselves?!

    I'm talking about a job that has yet to be SUCCESSFULLY completed, and remains available to each of us.

    Who would even try, under these conditions?

    Wouldn't it be easier for most all of us ... (which happens to be what most all of us do) ... to just sit back and wait for the next person to rise up, and try to lead, and then we throw stones at them?

    I mean ... we're hard on each other ... way too hard in my opinion.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with reviewing the strategies of work already done by our peers, or those gone before us, in a fair, balanced, and constructive manner. Of course this is absolutely necessary, to learn from their errors, update initiatives, add new information, knowledge, etc. ... but to resort to calling them out of their name ... to make them appear less than the great men and women that they are?!!

    C'mon ... what young person would want to live their life this way, for a people that treat them this way? Especially knowing, going in ... as the evidence is overwhelming ... that they will be crucified by the very ones they seek to help.

    Does this play a significant part, in why the pool of SUCCESSFUL Black Leaders is virtually non-existent?

    What about you ... would your life live up to the kind of critique we give to our people?

    Mine certainly wouldn't. I have people that hate me, that talk about me, that lie on me, that say all kinds of ugly things about me ... Black People ... Black People who claim to want the best for our people collectively ... yet ... i (a Black Woman) am treated this way by them ... and all i've ever done is provide a free resource to my people, by starting, managing and maintaining this community for us. I can only imagine the increased scrutiny and pain i'd experience, if i were trying to do anything greater than this.

    Should we work to overcome this, or is it par for the course, with all current and future leaders bracing themselves for it?

    Are we hurting our own effort, discouraging our youth to even want to consider helping us?

    I don't know Family ... you all tell me ... please.



    ps ... for the sake of this discussion, i define SUCCESSFUL as freeing our people from the oppression we face world-wide.
  2. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Feb 7, 2004
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    This is a most interesting thread. The answer can best be summed up by tonights episode at the NAACP awards show.

    Tonight Chris Rock introduced some white guy on the stage. He spoke about how this guy was spending millions in Africa to help eliminate malaria and aids among other things. Then he looked out at all "Our Rich People" and asked them..."here's this white guy doing all of this...what are you doing, here or in Africa?"

    He did exactly what he should have...Put Them All On The Spot !!! Now in terms of addressing your real issue...the issue becomes a multi faceted answer.

    1. What was the degree of consciousness of the person?
    2. And what was the political and social climate at the time?

    It is often easy for us to use "hindsight" and make judgements that at that time could not be made. There are too many factors to take into concideration.

    I used to take him as a total sell out at one time. However, as I looked at his philosophy and thought about it dawned on me that he was talking about the white man's GREATEST FEAR. The idea of us all loving one another and coming together would have genetically destroyed white people. So as I stated, it seriously depends on how you look at the glass half empty or half full ? But we do need to be held accountable to some degree short of losing ones life for those who are afraid to die or are being jeapordized in terms of being able to have a livelyhood.
  3. cursed heart

    cursed heart Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Jan 12, 2006
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    I agree with you.
    I totally respect you on various levels.
    But brother can I ask you this one question?
    Why are you so against OBAMA?
    I understand you may question him partially because he is bi-racial.
    Is this the sole reason or are there other reasons?
    Fyi I thought the same way about chris rock.
  4. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

    United States
    Mar 21, 2001
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    BUSINESS owner
    We as People have become our own worse enemy with critique energy
    through what i call mental entrapment and selfish strub to seek out or use
    criticism to dishonor what has taken place through time collectively.

    Today theres not one who is truely steppin up to do what many of our ancestors
    did before us and for us yet we as people have looked for ways to discredit them
    there life's work and deeds beyond looking through the whole window .

    I believe once we somewhat complete the circle of being recondition that there
    is a Leader who will continue the path of great leaders and legends but today
    surely not many will vow to stand in these conditions and system .

    Through this new age of time we have been programed to toss stone on any
    goodwill for Blacks and yes it has hurted us totally beyond compare, Black
    standing leaders who still today pushing for our equality and american freedom
    has yet to come close / what hurts most is these past leaders not only put up
    a outstanding fight for us to get us where we are today but have died for us and
    we yet to come to grip to honor them completely , we are truely hurting our own
    and crucify them with slander.

    Personally my life would not come close to what these black leaders have done
    so i have no face to critique , i may never stack up to these kind of leaders yet i
    have my place , i've been kicked down many times in life for making any effort..

    Our youth will be afraid to step forward because our society of people is ready
    to lable them write them off and toss stones to prove what they may not be doing
    yet are not willingly to make any effort to do it themselves , yes we are hard on
    our beloved ones .
    This why i hold every one before me and today who leads the way in high honor
    they doing what i'm not doing , reconditioning ourselves will be a positive force
    freeing us all from oppression and poverty is yet a long way but the path has been
    cut and stain by great leaders blood .

    I don't have a fulfilling & correct answers to this but a gut feeling that reconditioning
    will be a major key to bring forth more young strong black leaders in this day & age

    i'm woke to the facts and realism of todays life inside the system and how we have
    been mislead to believe negative about our ancestors there work and goals
    we need to respect these Legends and there legacy and try to carry on in anyway
    we can if it's just a little we are making an effort .

    quote: He who toss the first stone and laugh will be hit three time at the end of the road,
    for they not know or blindly confused through entrapment that has capture our creed in
    mental mass , to free ourselves is to be reconditionalized.
  5. will-he-write

    will-he-write Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Dec 3, 2003
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    Thank you for this thread. 2000 years ago our ancestors screamed out crucify him!!! As a lesson in karma, us their children (Joel 3:6) have given up our thrones to be betrayed, whipped, beaten, have a crown of thorns placed upon our heads so we can't think for ourselves, nails driven in our hands so we can't work for ourselves, nails in our feet so that we can't stand for ourselves and we die due to white supremacy!!! But know this we will resurrect!!! And when we do, judgement upon all that called for the death of the people of God!!! We will come like a theif in the night without observation. And like Malcolm said when it's dark......get close.....and introduce yourself to them!!!! That's the proper thing to do!!
  6. Riada

    Riada Well-Known Member MEMBER

    May 14, 2005
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    Destee, it’s true. Our folks don’t ever seem to be grateful for ANYTHING. Even if you die for them, many of them will say you didn’t die soon enough or some will even blame you for dying too soon.

    We seem to constantly look for a Messiah--an individual--to save us. After all of this time of living in white folks land, we don't seem to get it that they succeed against us because their oppression of us is done through INSTITUTIONS, ORGANIZATIONS, AND STRUCTURES that they build. They never depend on ONE person. They rely instead on tens of thousands of worker-ants, each of whom does their part for the organization. Any of us can start and organization and each of us should be willing to be a worker ant, and learn how to communicate with each other, instead of constantly trying to run away from each other.

    Another key thing about us is that if we don’t understand a person, we ATTACK them. It never seems to occur to us that just maybe just don’t understand that person. Even after we’ve listened to the person and read them, we STILL may be limited in our comprehension and just don't have enough knowledge to understand that person, but that doesn’t stop many of us from instantly going into knee-jerk ATTACK mode and start ripping the person.

    I can’t even find words to express how great of a man I think Dr. King was. He made his awesome contribution to our struggle and he then moved on. One way or another, we all move on. Even if he had lived, he would have been criticized for not doing EVERYTHING.

    Just look at all of the criticism about Oprah and Obama, for ex. I’m happy that Oprah’s doing what she’s doing in South Africa. If she’d built a leadership academy in this country, many black folks here would have blamed her for only building ONE or for not building one for males. So she went to S.A. and folks there are GRATEFUL.

    And just look at the criticism about Obama. Lawd have Mercy!! If he’s not representing Black folks the ways some of his many Black critics think he should, why don’t the critics get up off their butts and go out there and do it themselves?
  7. silent-ra

    silent-ra Banned MEMBER

    Dec 29, 2004
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    Permit my perspective please,

    Do we crucify our own? The short answer for me would be sometimes. But I would not be so intent on selecting to focus on that question in that way as to modifying the question:

    Why do we crucify our own?

    If I frame it this way, then I’m more likely to get a betta understanding of the phenomena. In other words, I’m presenting the question from the perspective of the victim and not who many may see as the victimizer(so-called ‘black‘ leaders).

    This then will lead us to re-define what we mean by “our own.” Is somebody “our own” who advises us to lay down our precious lives so that we can prove to othas how much of a loving nature we have? Is an entertainer “our own” because he points out something about Afrika, but still uses the word “nga” in his acts? Or, is a bi-racial politician “our own” bcuz he is half black, but yet see reparations for his black half as unnecessary?

    The Brothas and Sistahs who offer scathing perspectives on certain so-called leaders have been blessed with the insight to distinguish between those who helped us and those who hurt us. These brothas and sistahs are within their right and gut to crtique. These are the ones who have studied enuff history and analysis to come to the conclusion that they have been played and are still being played by the people we consider leaders and they are sick of it. There is no way a phony black preacher, phony black politician, phony black intellecutal, phony black entertainer etc. can expect to hide what they are doing against the Afrikan people for long. That goes against the winds of justice, Maat.

    We cannot expect a victim of rape to jus sit there and remain silent and then somehow blame them for not wanting to be raped again and again and again and yet again by people they trust. It was that type of thinking that allowed those same black phonies to do little or nothing for the floating dead bodies of Katrina. And the question again was "Do we crucify our own?"

    Everybody is not gon act mindless all the time, contrary to what these phony black leaders may assume and are banking on.

    So then this new crop of Sistahs and Brothas are the new judges sent to us to wake us up and push us off that old time vehicle that’s gotten us no where. At the same time they are telling the ‘black’ enemies(becuz there are many) that the history books have been read, analyzed and critiqued, and there will be no rehashing of old thoughtless agendas.
  8. oldiesman

    oldiesman Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Feb 9, 2006
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    do we crucify our own?

    yes we do,even in little ways everytime we laugh at how one of us is dressed,looks,talks,these may seem like small things but on the whole it's us tearing ourselves down and we all are guilty of it in one way or another,have you ever noticed how we[grit]on one another in passing[grit means a mean look]as if to say[he or she had better not say anything to me]i don't do it as often as when i was younger but i still do it at times,we just assume the worse before even saying anything to one another and it's sad another form of self hatred,there will be those here who will deny it but it's in us,we can be living in the worst ghetto in the city but we'll laugh at our neighbor's manner of dress or car or whatever,yes i know that phychologist have a clinical term for these behaviors,but when you're acting negatively towards your own kind then it's self hatred,we will truly overcome this curse one day but all of us will be long gone when that day comes,but while we're here we have to continue to talk to one another as we do here and fight mentally everyday that urge to crucify our own.
  9. kemetkind

    kemetkind Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Oct 8, 2005
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    :weights: :weights: :weights: This is some real stuff here.

    Excellent post.

    The question for me remains who is and is not classified as "phony" and on what criteria is this judgement made and on what grounds do the judges have qualifications to be doing the judging?

    If you want to make a case that MLK is one of those "so-called leaders" who hurt us more than helped us then why not spell it out in plain terms in the MLK thread like the others did?

    The answer to the thread title question is of course we crucify our own.

    We crucify our own individual selves so we can't help but to crucify those who look just like us.

    The answer to the "Why" we do so is more complex and probably different for different people at different stages of development.

    I think its perfectly legitimate for black thinkers to question and dissect the strategies and results of our predecessors...if the purpose is to improve upon what's been tried before.

    I think when we descend to name calling against our own ancestors its a reflection of our frustration and evidence we're not as developed as we think we are.
  10. silent-ra

    silent-ra Banned MEMBER

    Dec 29, 2004
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    With respect to yor query:

    “what criteria is this judgement made and on what grounds do the judges have qualifications to be doing the judging?”

    If one has to question the motives behind a fellow sistah or brotha being their brotha’s or sistah’s keeper, then this is where yor otha observation is crystallized:

    “The answer to the "Why" we do so is more complex and probably different for different people at different stages of development.”

    One last thing concerning yor name-calling comment. We must be careful not to criticize victims for how they express their pain. How would we look telling a sistah, whose been the victim of rape, that she should cry only a little, and not a lot?

    Yu have good points to offer, but I think we must be practical as well when we offer them. When somebody’s been hurt, we cannot always expect them to respond to that hurt in textbook fashion. Can we?