Black Relationships : Why do they stay....?

Discussion in 'Black Relationships' started by epiphany, Nov 3, 2001.

  1. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Amunra, I have a question for you, I have known many people
    in a relationship, that suffer through verbal and physical abuse.
    I have tried to offer intelligent reasoning to them, about
    abandoning this futile companionship. Yet still they persist, that
    they are in love, even tho they themselves understand the situation they are in and what they need to do to rectify it. They still continue to stay, I find it unbelievable. Can you shed some light on this self destructive phenomenon?


    Epiphany :heart:
     
  2. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Epiphany

    can I just jump in here and make a comment....

    from witnessing this happen to a close family member, I also ask the same question, at least a thousand times....

    the social workers I dealt with told me that spousal abuse happens in a cycle...ironically called the honeymoon cycle...

    there is the build-up, the physical abuse, the non-communication, the apology and promises from the abuser, the forgiveness, the falling in love again...6 steps...and then it starts all over again...

    around 90% of women that have left their abusive spouses will return within a 90 day period of leaving....to suffer more of the same...their reasons are many and varied...

    the sad part is, that no matter how hard you try, you cannot help these women until they are ready to help themselves...denial is so much a part of their lives...

    it is easy for an outsider to see the problem...the hard part is getting the abused to admit there is a problem..

    K
     
  3. Amun-Ra

    Amun-Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I can only say . . .

    . . . perhaps it stems froma lack of self-esteem or an intense mothering or fathering attitude that belives it can save the problem individual from this behavior. I have seen it as I am sure you have and it just doesn't make any rational sense. Often those who stay in these relationships feel that they deserve this type of treatment or feel that this is the best they will ever do in life, so, they stay. Others stay because they feel that they have no where to go and in many cases, at least on the surface, it does appear that way. Often when one is far removed from friends, family and society, the feeling comes that there is nowhere else to go and this is the formula for desparation which probably will end in tragedy because when aperson feels they have no way out they will stay until there is no way out or they will find a way out that is not in proportion to their need which is usually killing someone.

    Also, there are needy individuals who see this form of abuse as attention, as someone who cares becasue they take the time to abuse them. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it happens. Still, even with all the reading, watching and hearing I've done on this topic I have have no idea of why. It still makes no sense to me. It always seemed that if you know that fire burns, then you don't stick your hand in it. If you know that trouble is over here, then we make sure we go over there instead.

    Hell, I don't know!


    Ra

    :)
     
  4. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Kitana.....

    Kitana, no problem...I welcome all comments. I certainly understand what you mean, although it doesn't help the frustration of watching it happen and listening to them complain, yet after all the long talk and advice, they return.
    I have seen it many times , friends, and sis in laws. I came to the conclusion, not to listen, because I felt it was getting me really upset (I have had many a headaches), when they didn't listen and I was enabling them to sound off, only to release the strength they had to make a decision and cool off. So I chose to not indulge them, I didn't turn my back, but I didn't enable them. In time....within years, after looking ragged and worn, they made the decision to leave. But, you are right, until they believe they have had enough, there is not much someone on the outside looking in can do. I thank you for the read and your comments.


    Epiphany :heart:
     
  5. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Kem..

    I agree with your theories,
    perhaps you can offer an opinion on what type of man has the psyche to
    physically abuse a woman, I'd like to hear your comment on that. As far as a man being in this situation, I agree also, I don't know, if I would agree so much with the physical abuse(tho, I believe there is some cases)...I think with men, it is more emotional and verbal abuse. I also have known men like that. Do you think, the reasoning is the same for staying? Thanks Kem, for your read and your opinions. Its greatly appreciated.


    Epiphany :heart:
     
  6. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Amun_Ra

    Thanks Amun_Ra, I'm sure, it is a
    question, that has many answers,
    but not a true understanding, only speculation. I just have always wondered that. What would make a person be so self destructive? I know every living creature should have basic instinct for self preservation.
    It just really puzzles me. I appreciate
    you offering your opinion. I just wanted to take this moment to tell you, I have really enjoyed your commentaries and your column. Perhaps...you will address the questions I asked Kem also, if you could?...Again thanks.


    Epiphany :heart:
     
  7. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Kem

    maybe the administers of physical abuse are not limited to the male gender, but I'm sure there a lot less numbers of females physically abusing males than vice versa....males are more powerful physically and thats just a fact...but there seem to be a heck of a lot of women who like to verbally abuse their mates, by putting them down and making jokes about aspects of their character..

    from my experience with abused women (which is limited), I have heard them often say that they would rather suffer physical abuse than verbal or emotional abuse....because if it's physical, then it's a hit or a punch and then it's over for a while....verbal and emotional abuse never stops....and I think in some ways does more damage...

    and I think being a controller and being insecure work hand in hand anyway...they seem to be a controller because they are insecure...and not only does his control means that he wants to make the women completely dependant on him..it also means he can shut her away from the world, friends, family, anyone who can influence her in any way and therefore is not a threat to his control....and I agree he does provide her with material things...so that if she does not do what he wants he can throw it back in her face and make her feel guilty about it....

    you chose the right word when you called this type of man insidious, for he is that and much more....and he is also very cunning, manipulative, and sneaky...

    many times you will hear professionals explain this type of behaviour with excuses such as....he/she knows no better, this is normal behaviour, it was done to him/her....and it's all a great big cop out....if it happened to you, then you know how much it hurt and you know you should never make another person suffer the same fate...they weren't born this way...they choose to be this way...and their excuses don't mean a **** thing...

    K
     
  8. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Re: staying

    I hope you don't have a daughter, for this statement alone (to her) could be considered abuse. And if you really feel this way, it could only manifest itself in your behaviour. Wow Kemetstry, if I didn't know better, I'd think you hated women. :confused:
     
  9. epiphany

    epiphany Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Kem.......

    I see we are right back to lumping all of us
    the same.....I for one have never been
    attracted to controlling men.
    I have never been attracted to weak men,
    if a man or woman's eyes are open, these type of people
    show red flags long before you fall in love with them.
    It is a personal preference or they have gotten
    themselves into a relationship, that was easier to get into then get out. That preference I'm sure is not shared by " ALL" women.
    I think you get the ladies all riled up, when you
    keep equating everyone together. That would be like saying all men are chauvinistic, woman-beating pigs and we should gather them all together and stone them.....now tell me....wouldn't that
    get you a little bit teed. I think the word you might use is a
    feminist. As I said before in every situation there is exceptions
    to the rule......For the most part, in a reverse situation a man can walk away, the same for a woman, THO IT MIGHT BE A BIT DIFFICULT IF HE HAS HER BY HER NECK! If he chooses to get into a physical altercation with the woman (I know there are some cases where the woman has kicked the man's butt) I really don't believe she can physically do any damage to the man, unless she uses a weapon on him. I think the arguement on who does the abuse can go on and on, I agree with Kitana, that there is insecurity involved in both types of men, it may be to different extremes. I believe there is also insecurity and low self esteem in both parties involved.....whether it be the abuser or the victim of the abuse.
    Both feed off of each other to enable the whole situation to continue.......so I believe each party in some perverse way is
    fulfilling a need for the other.....Unlike you Kitana, I have seen
    many cases, and Kem most of them have been male on female abuse. I have only experience two in reverse....and the physical attacks were mutual.
    Whether it is reverse or not.....it is a toxic relationship that,
    if not salvageable should be ended, for the couples sake and if they have kids, the kids sake.......thanks Kitana, Destee, Amun_ra and Kem for sharing your views, appreciate it.


    Epiphany :heart:
     
  10. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Kemetstry ... as I think back over your comments in other discussions, you usually find an opportunity to say something negative regarding women in general. Obviously this is your "truth." I feel for anyone who consistently talks negatively about another whole group of individuals. In my opinion, it speaks volumes about them and not the group they're demeaning. Nonetheless, you're entitled to your "truths."

    Ephiphany, I apologize for not addressing you in my previous post. Great topic. My son recently told me about a young girl (17) that has a boyfriend (18) who beats on her. When he saw it, he made dude stop. My son said that she was recently kicked out of her mother's home (still in high school) and was living w/an aunt. This young man takes her to work, takes her to school, picks her up from both and constantly abuses her (mentally, verbally and physically). Later that same night, the young lady came to my son's apartment door, looking for her boyfriend. He normally picks her up from work, but this night only his truck was in the parking lot, he was nowhere to be found. She had a co-worker bring her to my son's apartment, thinking he might be there. When my son told her that he wasn't there and asked if she needed a ride home, she said no, that she would go back to the parking lot and wait for him there.

    It broke my heart to hear this.

    I have never had a man hit me, nor have I ever had to wonder if I had my mother's complete love and support. I can't imagine either, let alone be living both at the same time.

    Women being fought by men is nothing new. I imagine feeling dependent has a lot to do with it. I think too that each feeds off the other in some weird way (at least in those instances where it happens continually). I don't know the answer Epiphany, but it breaks my heart to see and hear of such things. I personally would much rather have the mental and verbal abuse, rather than the physical (at least I think, since I have very little experience with any kind).

    In closing, I'd like to say to all the mothers and fathers reading this post, let's not set our children up to be abused by anyone.
     
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