Black Spirituality Religion : Why Do Non Christians Discuss Christianity?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by river, Aug 2, 2005.

?

What should peole talk abot?

  1. Don't talk about religion at all.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Talk only about the religion you believe in.

    0 vote(s)
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  3. Talk only about what you have knowledge about.

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  4. Talk about whtever you want.

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    I have to look at it from a historical standpoint.

    For the last 2000 years christians have been telling the world that their religion is the only true way to salvation. In the name of their version of god they have subjugated the peoples of every continent and island on Earth, I could only wish that I were exagerating. They have supplanted these people's culture and indigenous belief systems with various forms of christianity.

    Now suddenly whenever someone has something to say about christianity that is unfavorable or that examines it too closely its adherents behave as if they are under personal attack.

    For a religion that has such an ubiquitous and impacatful history to conveniently hide behind the mask of "my personal beliefs" when it is called into question is not playing fair at all.

    When a religion is forced on others either by military invasion, social coercion or gentle persuasion it is no longer a personal belief but has opened itself up to examination by those who are being told they must beleive it or go to some horrible place.

    Are nonchristians equally as accepting when christians speak of nonchristian religions? It's a free country> You may speak on whhatsoever subject you will. At the same time understand that non christian listeners are fully aware that christians are strongly discouraged from reading any religious or spiritual text other than the bible. Therefore most christians cannot speak about other religions with the same level of knowledge with which non christians can speak of christianity.

    On the other hand many non christians having come from a christian background are as conversant in the bible as many christians and even many preachers.

    By choosing to be willfully ignorant of anything outside his/her chosen (not "personal" but chosen belief the christian places him/herself at a decided disadvantage in any inter-religious discourse.
     
  2. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Well said.
     
  3. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    Peace Sis,

    - Good subject for discussion......................
     
  4. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Much of what you have I would have to agree with but to blame Christianity at the cause of human atrocities though out history is like blaming a gun for shooting someone. It is the man who would call himself a Christian without the full understanding of Christ who is at fault. Sister I know you are well versed in scripture so I don't need to point out scripture for scripture of what the Bible says. You know that Jesus said that if you are not for me you are against me. You know that Jesus said he came to divide men not unite them together. Jesus also said that the word of God would fall on deaf ears and closed hearts as well receptive heart in which the word could flourish and grow. You also know that the God the Christians worship is a jealous God. You know that if applied correctly Christian believe that the Christian walk should reflect of God. Also those that are striving for perfection will become sons of God. You know all this so it shouldn't surprise you that Christians on a spiritual level have tunnel vision for the most part. However on an intellectual level some Christians may seek to understand what else is there besides Jesus that men have chosen to believe and for what reasons. In Christian terms this would usually be done by someone who is spiritually mature and firm in their faith. There is much disdain from the African American community for the faith of Christianity the same way there is much adoration. I would say sister it is hard to put ideas and beliefs on trial. If a witch is on trial for murder and is found to be guilty by the evidence and a jury of his/her peers does that person go unpunished and Wicca receives judgment? Of coarse not. In many ways Jesus represents the same thing the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil presented. Jesus beside salvation represent a choice. No will stop anyone from chosen their god or choosing the God. Like Joshua told the tribes of Israel, You are not required to serve the God of Israel. Man my serve what god he so chooses. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. So sister and to any other Non Christian for that matter I say feel free to journey down the path of your choice far albeit from me to stop you or give anyone permission I do not hold that authority. Know this though. I believe God takes us on a journey down side streets and back alleys, gangways and shortcuts and avenues and boulevards just to bring us to the path of truth and righteousness so that when we are on that path there will be no doubt that we are going the right way.


    Peace Sister..........

    P.S. Sometimes it's not about where you start or even the route you may travel. It's about where you finish.
     
  5. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I disagree that there is much disdain among African Americans for Christianity. Destee represents a very, very small subset of the black population. I think a larger number of blacks embrace Christianity and look down on non-Christian religions or spiritual belief systems. Many of the people on here who disagree with Christianity, (including myself), were once Christians.

    But anyway, I think river makes excellent points. Christianity is a faith that demands its followers to mission to the 'unsaved.' It also purports itself to be the one and only path to God's grace and ultimately a heavenly Afterlife. So, when you have hypocritical Christians doing everything the Bible says not to, Biblical accounts that seem contradictory and barbaric, and so-called 'Christian' societies condoning evil behavior, the notion that this must be the one and only religion becomes debatable.

    It is natural and human for people to want to hold onto belief systems that worked for them and their culture basically ever since God made them. This is not to say that their societies are perfect, but one is being unrealistic if they think they can change them without opposition.
     
  6. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    *Standing Ovation for this entire thread*

    Both the Sisters here elucidate upon a very touchy subject for the world over, not to mention for our people, who have held tight to Christianity for the past several centuries.

    Peace RADICAL:

    I'm curious: which aspects of what Sister River stated that you are in agreement with? Most of your statements here seem to take the defense of the indenfensible.

    Perhaps, but you could also blame the person who created the gun, for the sole purpose of the expedition and ease of death, and for no other reason, especially when such a tool/weapon was not present on earth at that time.

    The sad irony is, that for centuries, the Gun and the Bible have been used hand-in-hand.

    In the meantime, if someone's belief said that it is OK to rape little boys under the age of 7, and then a believer performs this act, which is guilty, the belief or the believer? Both? Neither?

    I'm curious; does the ideology play any part in this whatsoever?

    I don't understand how you can acknowledge thse ideological assertions, and then blame people for their faulty perceptions, and not that which they are perceiving as the culprit........?

    I'm always amazed at how Non-Christians seem to know the Bible better than Christians do; God is a "jealous God", and it appears that "he" is all sorts of things besides.......Such as a misogynist, genocidist, racist, thief, etc.

    These things, having nothing to do with the twisted perceptions of the believer (except that they create such perceptions), have everything to do with the belief.

    Brother, you seem to be pretty intelligent (that's why I called you rather an "enigma" in another thread); how is it that you reconcile these issues within yourself?

    How do you figure? Islam has been on trial in the eyes of the Western world, for the past 4 decades. Christians hand out judgements on every other non-Christian faith (who do you think created terms like "pagan", "heathen", "demonic", etc?)......

    It sounds like you mean to say: "It's hard FOR ME to put CHRISTIAN ideas and beliefs on trial."

    Again, I'm curious: have you ever sought to entertain with any real sincerity, any of the claims that people make about your beliefs?

    Do you think that we, the lot of us, are all delusional within our own minds, when it comes to this subject?

    Looking at history, and the Christians (do you see the irony?) that passed the judgement, I'd have to say that not only did the witch burn BECAUSE of Wicca, but Wicca (in reputation) also burned with her.

    Such is the Christian way.

    This reminds me of the fact, that the USA is always striving to disarm every other nation in the world of nuclear weapons, yet no one had DARE say anything about the USA's nuclear weapons--weapons that this country has been the only one in history to ever have used.

    Once again, we are smacked with the irony; this claims to be a nation founded upon "Christian principles" (again, genocide, misogyny, thievery, slavery, etc).

    You don't see the duplicity of this statement? This statement has the implication of "make the Christian choice, or the WRONG choice" written all over it.

    Through the years, I've always noticed that under the sheet of humility and "turn-the-other-cheek-ness", Christians speak with an inherent smugness; a default self-righteousness that all non-Christians feel like an aura.

    As a non-Christian, a typical conversation with a Christian is one where I feel patronized, condescended, with this unspoken feelings, between the range of "I know something you don't", and "aww, I feel so sorry for you--pitiful little retard".........

    There's always the feeling that what you have to say to me, is far more important than what I have to say to you, and that you only listen to me, to keep up the aire of humility......The sad irony is, that the "Spiritually Mature" Christians seem to be the ones that keep up this aire, while the less mature (like OCCELO) are just blatant and brash with it.

    This is ironic; wasn't it Joshua who slaughtered whole non-Hebrew tribes for not converting to this God?

    Apparently they didn't read the fine print of the Jewish mandate :rolleyes:

    You said yourself that Jesus said "either you are with me or against me"......Such an extremist point of view is seen all through the Bible, and works its way into the "join me or die" phase of extremism.

    And then we wonder why slavery happened? Why a slave ship could be called "The Good Ship Jesus"? I could see, under the ships name, was the motto: "Either you are with me, or against me".

    Yet another symptom of Judeo-Christian exclusivity; the notion that there is somehow a different God, based on a different name or custom.

    If Christians would take off the Bible-colored glasses for a moment, and see the world with Universal eyes, they could possibly see that the God they worship is the same God as the one that we "worship". Names are going to change with language. Methods of worship are going to change with different cultures. That's all that religion is; an extension of culture and language.

    Brother, would I be wrong in seeing the inference, that you are subtley asserting that we will all end up back at Christianity anyway, despite our efforts otherwise?

    PEACE
     
  7. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Peace always Brotha Radical,

    I am reading your words and trying to understand your viewpoint. In short there is much in this post which contradicts itself.

    Understand I am not saying that Christianity is all evil or that it has been the cause of all evil in the world for many have been set free by an esoteric understanding of biblical principles just as many have been set free by following Islam, Buddhism atc.

    However one must hold christianity responsible for what it has done and this is not hard to do. Start with a jealous god who commands his people to commit genocide then go on to a savior who did not come to bring peace but a sword of division, how then can you say that those who do such things are/were not real christians? Yes, they were real christians and they did exactly what their god told them to do. I'm not just talking about the old testiment but Jesus himself says
    It is today's christian who tells him/herself that the god who never changes no longer does such things who has deviated from the faith of his fathers and incorporated the philosophies of the world into it. For is it not the antichrist who comes in the name of peace? You open and close your posts with peace yet this is the very thing the bible tells you not to do (2 John 1:10-11).

    Christianity is not proported to be a mere tool like a gun or a sword that cannot be held accountable for what men who weld it do. Christianity is a system of teachings and when men are taught to weld a sword then yes it is the teaching that is accountable for what these men do.

    In all the evil that the church has done it has done so with ample scripture to support it. It is convenient to say they misinterpreted the scripture. Now the claim is made that this book which is so open to interpretation and misinterpretation is the only true word of God infallable and inerrant in its entirety and anyone who does not believe that is on a side street or the wrong path altogether. Such bold claims cannot stand exempt from examination. That's all I'm saying, Brother.
     
  8. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    why don't they act like christ........?

    as there are so many Christians and so few Christ-like people walking around, i have to say that the Bible must surely be the most ineffective book around.
     
  9. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    Habari za asubuhi: (Good Morning in Swahili)

    First of all, I can't say it enough - Samurai, what a teacher! Thank God for you.

    Secondly, from what I have read, it seems that Christianity has been, and is damaged through people who operate in and out of it. The Bible has healed and saved many lives, and it is the key to making it to heaven. God is our creator, and for that I think that we should all Love and respect Him, being that He is the creator. He gave us knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, and I believe that if we all followed the word for ourselves, we will appreciate Him better than we do. I know someone who is questioning their beliefs because an elder is telling them serious stuff about Christianity that is against their beliefs. What I do is I just read the word, take notes, and figure it out myself. Only every now and then, I would bring it up with other people, like I did Solomon 2:15 and Hebrews 10:25. Other than that, I believe what I believe.

    I disagree with believing what other people believe, just because they believe it. I think we should all use our Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding wisely, and let no MAN or WOMAN convinve us to believe otherwise.

    CD
     
  10. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Brotha Cedric,

    It seems that the teachers you praise the most are the ones you most ignore. I cannot help but think you approach the bible with the same level of ironic propensity to see what you want to see and nothing else. I'm not saying you are a bad person. I just want you to think for a minute.

    Yes the bible contains some truth and people can find healing and what they think is saalvation in some of its teachings. But do not pretend that the bible in its entirety is the word of a healing, saving god. Brotha Samurai was incorrect when he said Joshua killed those people for refusing to convert. In truth they were never given the chance to convert. Jesus said of them that if they had been given the word they would have repented long ago. But they weren't given the word. The Hebrews came but for to steal to kill and to destroy and that's all they did. When they claim that God told them to do these ghastly things I have to digress. When they claim the god who takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked but wants the wicked to repent--when they claim he directed them to dispatch entire cities to hell knowing that that they would have repented had they been given the chance then I have to say no this is not God.
     
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