Why Are People Being *****?

Discussion in 'Violators and Violations (Possible Ones)' started by msluciousb, May 22, 2002.

  1. msluciousb

    msluciousb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Why Are People Being *****?(Someone else reposted, so don't even pay it no mind)!

    IS THIS A CLIQUE OR AN OPEN FORUM...WHERE IS THE LOVE?
    It seems like lately the Poetry forum has become very cliqueish
    and sophmoric in it's treatment of it's fellow artist...We show
    very little support for each other and when we do it's only people that are in our inner circle whatever that is about. I think it's very divisive and nonconducive to creativity. I am not going to let anyone steal my joy...I know other people feel the same way.
    I try to read peoples work who have been posted with lots of
    views but no replies. People want and need the feedback for
    personal growth! Without it the Poetry forum is going to get
    stale as all get out. I don't think that is what anyone wants.
    So you don't like everything somebody writes...take time and
    reply no matter how simple it might be. When the script flips on
    you and no one is reading your work,ya gonna be pissed off too.
    I just expected better from the members. Now I know I am pissing folks off by even saying this, just speaking from the heart and I don't like feeling uncomfortable in my own home.
    Ya know?
    Holla back?
     
  2. msluciousb

    msluciousb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The reality is...

    EXCUSES,EXCUSES,EXCUSES...THAT'S ALL!
    The fact is a group of people who have some clout have created
    an elitist clique within your community and you all don't even have the balls to say anything. I for one would welcome any feedback...Some who are less experience may be overly sensitive, rejection, criticism are all a part of life. I simply felt that as a member this issue is seething under the surface and being talked about by the forum but not in Open forum...If it sucked...
    Hell it sucked go back and rework it or delete it!
    Being vulgar , well that seems to be the only things that sell
    around here! So PEOPLE HAVE TIME TO WRITE THESE LONG
    *** POEMS BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ...GIVE ME
    A BREAK! And if I sound less than satisfied with ya answer
    its cause it was simplistic!!!!!!!!!!!!:maddd:
    So eventually it will die the slow death of apathy, cause the moderator's should be motivators as well. This is a major undertaking, if the people are not in place to administer to
    the members then:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  3. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Hello MsLuciousB,

    You raise an interesting point. Actually, there was a poet that joined us a while back, their first post mentioned a clique and that they may not be accepted in it, but was posting anyway. I found it surprising to read, but they obviously had been visiting/reading awhile and it was their perception of things.

    I'm not sure how to address this because I'm not aware of a "from the top down clique". The Moderators and I (as well as many of the other Family Members) welcome everyone who chooses to post here. We have a very loving Family, peaceful, kind and considerate. I'm not sure what I can do to assure you that no "special consideration" is given to any. The rules (few as they are) apply the same across the board.

    You know MsLuciousB, there are always folk who tend to gravitate toward one another, become closer friends, interact away from the forum as well as on it ... and no doubt make it a point to read/respond to each others work. There's really not much I can do to discourage them from showing "special love" to each other (not that I'd want to).

    I'm sure you've noticed too, that when a new Member joins and shares with us, they are rarely denied a warm and sincere welcome ... not only by me but by many of the other Family Members as well.

    When the forum first opened and the Membership was smaller, I was able to post to each and every thread that was started. I simply can't do that anymore, but when I do have time to post to the work shared here, I usually go to the threads that have zero replies. I have some "favorite" poets, but I forsake posting to their work, because I want everyone to feel welcome ... and I know those poets are at home here ... so I post to the poets that are new and not yet receiving lots of love.

    This is a "self-serve" kind of forum. People read and respond to what they want, helping themselves to whatever their heart desires. I can't make folk respond to each peace they read. Some aren't even Members, they come here to soak up the flow ... then leave ... adding another view to that peace.

    In defense of the Moderators, these are volunteer positions, created primarily to keep the peace, in case someone thinks they are going to come wreaking havoc and disrespecting us. While we could come up with a very long list of additional things they could do ... they are doing what I asked of them ... and oftentimes, much more. I am grateful for their contribution to this forum.

    MsLuciousB, please don't think you can't speak your mind here, because you can. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to do so and I'd like to ask you to take it one step further, and be more specific. For example ...

    You say:

    "The fact is a group of people who have some clout have created an elitist clique within your community and you all don't even have the balls to say anything."

    Who are these group of people? Name them please. I really want you to name them if you don't mind. Let's put everything out on the table. You've accused me of not having the balls ... :wink: ... to address this, but I think it's really that I tend to look at the whole forest and not individual trees ... so I appreciate you bringing this to my attention and would like to examine the trees if you'd help me.

    You also say ...

    "Being vulgar, well that seems to be the only things that sell around here!"

    Would you mind pointing out some of this for me? Again, I don't read every post and may have actually missed the vulgarity being sold. It will be addressed if you'll show it to me.

    You also say ...

    "If it sucked... Hell it sucked go back and rework it or delete it!"

    I really don't agree with this. Folk open up their heart and soul to share a peace of themselves with their world. I'm not willing to have others tell them their work sucks, or that they should go back and rework it and/or delete it. Someone may do this in private if the poet has made their email or private message available ... but if I see this on the forum ... I will ask that it not be done. I'd much rather a person not say anything at all ... than to tear another person's work apart with negative criticism.

    Well MsLuciousB, my fiery poetic Sister ... you have brought much to the table and I do appreciate it. I hope we are able to come to some agreement regarding your concerns. I love having you here and admire your "balls" :wink: for bringing issues to the table that you don't think will be met with open arms. I love addressing controversial issues. While I've asked for more specific examples above, please feel free to provide as many as you'd like. Let's do this Sis!

    Looking forward to your response.

    Much Much Love.

    Destee
     
  4. msluciousb

    msluciousb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Here ya go!

    I appeciate you taking time to give a lengthy response I appreciate how busy you are, I know! As for the peoples names
    I am not going to name, names in an open forum as I have enough people who don't appreciate me as it is! You feel me?
    I will do that in private. The poems that are the hottest may not be considered vulgar by all, it is a matter of taste...but anything
    about sex SELLS! That is the prurient interest. I cannot go back and list all of the poems for I feel that everyone has done one or two hot ones that is what OPEN FORUM means...and I do remember how you handled my specific situation when I was going toe to toe with Rich and Watcher...:D All good!
    The clique with clout are the ones who have either made poet of the week, get the most posts, regardless of the content and never, never reply to anyone but their favorites, that is the inequity! When I say "you don't have the balls" don't take it personal, I was not referring to you specifically. I have noticed the ones who do respond mostly; Rich!
    Of the ones who are responding to me, that is not the issue...my grave concern is that we all be perceived as elitist and that is sad.
    I will send you a list of the "self proclaimed MASTER'S" and you can deal with it however you see fit. As for me, I am going no where...as a matter of fact! I am inviting my own friends from other sites to join me on Destee, not to join the elitist 'Snobs', but to balance the scales!
    Much Love and Respect!
     
  5. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Hold up MsLuciousB ... don't send me the names privately ... that's not fair ... I just wanna get this in before you compose that list.

    Now let me compose a proper response to your response ... stand by. :)

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  6. msluciousb

    msluciousb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Nuff said!

    I am done with it! I don't have the desire or the inclination to publicly humiliate people the way that they have done some of
    us newer folks...So I am done with it! Respond as you like and don't think I am madd... cause I can just write as I like and compile my poetry as I intended in the first place and not worry
    about anyone else. I brought it to Rich, and I brought it to you...
    they already know who they are if they have even read this post, which in a way I know that they have not. So let's just say...
    "Time will tell!" If we ever have an "Ideal Web community".
    Your purpose is not my purpose in all things and their purpose is not my purpose in all things. And that is cool! I am all about the
    first Amendment, to the Death...
    Much Respect!
    BLESSINGS ON YA HOUSE!
     
  7. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Okay ... whew! :)

    First, in regard to my not wanting a list of the names privately. You've presented this issue publicly and it wouldn't be fair to those following (or those who are being called out) to just send me the list privately and everyone not have an opportunity to know what's going on and respond if they so desire. I wasn't asking you to name them so that folk could take issue with you. As a matter of fact, you may be presenting concerns that others are thinking/feeling. I'm sure the Family (and most definitely me) can appreciate your desire to discuss the things in our house that bother you. Your doing so probably gives others the confidence to step up and voice their own concerns. My main reason for asking you to put it on the table is to allow everything to be addressed openly and in public. I've found that in most cases, it's the best way. It allows for everyone to see how things are handled, comment on if it's done fairly and remove any doubt that anyone is getting special consideration ... because all considerations (from me) are done so that everyone can see them. It also eliminates the need for me to respond to private responses regarding what is going on ... 'cause everyone can see clearly what is happening, every step of the way. I do understand your desire not to name names, but I've found that if folk really have a grievance, they should be prepared to put it all on the table ... or not bother to say anything at all ... ya know? I'm not challenging you to do what you are uncomfortable doing, but you can't cry foul and then not want to show us where the foul is. This goes not only for you MsLuciousB, but for anyone that wants an issue addressed. For the record, I am glad you posted it here in the forum and didn't send it to me privately ... I want everyone to see what my response is and determine if the way this forum is administered, is done in a consistent manner. Thank you for this.

    In regard to hot, "vulgar," poetry ... we've had this discussion before here on the forum. A very lengthy thread in fact, you can find it here. You are right, I have never discouraged anyone from contributing "sensual poetry" to the site. So often it's a matter of opinion regarding what crosses the line, and with a few key words added to the "banned word list" ... most all poetry can be allowed ... because those key words are going to be replaced by asterisks. In spite of "sensual poetry" being allowed here, I think it's a reach to suggest that we sell sex. Yes, sex certainly sells, but I don't think it's fair to say we are doing that. There is simply too much poetry, too many topics, too many emotions expressed ... to narrow us down to a "sex poetry site."

    In regard to the "Poet of the Week" ... this conversation has come up too. Bishop is choosing this person all by himself, with no input from me (or anyone else that I'm aware of). It has only been a few weeks since this has started, thus, only a few folk have been chosen. It is our intention to feature everyone that contributes here, but even in our attempt of doing that ... there will only be 52 per year ... because there are 52 weeks in a year. I think if you or I were choosing the Poet of the Week, there would be someone saying we made a poor choice, that someone else was more deserving, that it appears as though we are playing favorites, etc. Such is the nature of these things, but trust that Bishop is fair, loving and considerate of all ... because I do trust that.

    When it comes to folk responding to who they choose, while I feel what you're saying ... I really have no control over this. People are going to respond to who they want, for many different reasons. All I can suggest is that one doesn't take it too personal. Let everyone post to whomever they please, and if they don't respond to us ... then we'll respond to each other ... okay? :)

    Yes, our $$RICH$$NESS has ALWAYS shown love to everyone, above and beyond even my own contribution to this forum, which is why we had a "Member of the Year." Not everyone is blessed the same, not everyone gives the same kind of love and time ... that's okay ... because whatever little bit of themselves they give is appreciated and counted. As a matter of fact, our dear darling $$RICH$$ hasn't been on the forum as much recently, as in times past ... but I don't think it's because he loves us any less and doesn't want to share his love with us ... it's probably because he's busy, got other things going on and has to tend to them. I think the same applies to others who don't spend lots of time posting/responding ... they come in when they can ... give a little love ... and are out again. That's okay with me, so long as they don't leave the koolaid pitcher empty in the 'fridge ... ya know :wink:

    In regard to there being an "elitist group" here, or "snobs" even ... wow ... that's a pretty harsh accusation MsLuciousB, especially in light of the very humble, giving and loving spirit found on this forum. Perhaps I'm too "out of touch" with what is really going on (looking at the forest and not the trees) but I don't see that. No one has "clout" here, except the Moderators and myself and I've even called the Moderators out, in front of everyone, if their behavior appeared to go against the rules and/or heart of this site, which is that all are sincerely welcome to everything that is here. You can even find a few apologies I've posted to others, where it appeared I may have "crossed the line." More evidence that no one is above another, including me, when it comes to respecting all that have Membership here.

    Thank you for staying with us and inviting others to join. I don't claim that this forum is perfect or can be all things to all people ... but I do work hard at making sure that everyone feels welcome and that there is none that should feel they are "the least of us," because we are all in this together.

    My response is rather general, because you've presented your concerns in general. If you'd like me to be more specific, then I'll need you to be more specific. If you'd rather end it here we can do that too, but know that I am more than willing to go the distance, in hopes that we can see eye to eye.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  8. msluciousb

    msluciousb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    My last comment!

    I have stated as clearly as I know how without placing blame or shifting responsibilities as the terms "Moderator" and "Administrator" would apply. And without just blowing wind
    or bowing down to controversy if you insist...I have the list right
    here...POETICDELIGHT, KEMESTRY,UBZORBSHUN,BLAKVERB,YESHUJAH,J'HAI,N2URSOUL,
    GA_SUNSHYNE,Aaliyamonet, sometimes Maddrapper , Hi-wa and Desert Storm...
    They post a lot but respond basically to each other.
    I have taken the time to respond to others who get lots of post and no replies and even gone back over the archives to see if I was being paranoid...I do not have permission from the others to air their grievances, but I do know that I am not the only one.
    Harsh words, that's a matter of opinion...I called it like I saw it.
    This is not a corporation and seniority should not determine your
    skills...Just because we just hit the site doesn't mean we are new
    to the craft! The decision to be selective as you have agreed is of course everyones right...But, I think it is also a barometer of sincerity! After I posted my complaint initially I seem to get more than a few responses..."was this a directive, or deterrent to my complaint" don't know! Don't care...
    I have said my say! No one else is going to say a word.
    It is evident by the posts to this page!
    I agree in part with what you have said. And for the biggest part
    I am satisfied that the moderators do a "Fantastic Job" some
    better than others!
    As for this topic I am done with it...I am only replying cause it's
    "YOU", MS.WEBB and for no other reason. I owe you that much
    respect and unconditional love!

    Many people complain around the water cooler...the true champions...Put their *** on the line! I did....
    BLESSING ON DESTEE'S HOUSE!:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
     
  9. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    MsLuciousB ... thank you so much for your consideration of my request ... I APPLAUD you for naming names and voicing this concern ... Thank You Sis :toast:

    It takes much courage to do what you've done. I hope, if there are others that feel the same as you, they too will have the courage and confidence to step forward and say what is on their minds.

    We are all entitled to our opinions and everyone will be respected here, please know that. Even if you had listed my name in that list, I would still be as happy, because I would be even more confident that folk know they can express themselves without concern for being attacked.

    Well MsLuciousB ... you have put it out here Sis. I'm scared of you!!!! :) Whew! I Love It !!! Okay ... let me share my opinion of those you've mentioned, as it pertains to the issues you've raised.

    PoeticDelight - perhaps she's been quiet lately, not posting as regularly to many ... but in general ... PoeticDelight always has a smile and encouraging word for most. I'm not sure what you may have witnessed of late, but I'm surprised she's on this list.

    Kemetstry - while he is a poet in his own right, spending a little time in the poetry forum ... he spends most of his time in the "discussion" forums, oftentimes, the only male point of view chiming in. Now, if you want a good debate and lots of responses, post in the open forum and Kemetstry will be responding long after he's lost the debate! :wink:

    'Zorbsh'n - I haven't even seen 'Zorbsh'n on the forum in some time ... but again ... she's known to show lots of love to folk ... hmmmm ... I'm surprised she's mentioned, especially since she's not been here much lately (I don't think).

    BlakVerb - Now Blak isn't here very often, peeking in every now and again ... sharing some encouraging words and then out again ... I vote that we should spank him! :)

    Yeshujah - This is another surprise, he's often quiet ... posting a little bit, staying away much too long, and then coming back home to treat us with his flow again. I don't believe that he's intentionally trying to hurt anyone with his small amount of posting ... it just doesn't seem to be his nature to behave that way.

    J'hiah - Another surprise, J'hiah brings such peace and love to the forum, such a gentle spirit. I don't know about him posting to others in heaping bucket fulls or not, but gosh, even if he doesn't ... he adds such a serenity to our home that we can't hold that against him.

    N2urSoul - Now N2 hasn't been in the house much lately, but when she's here, she's looking out for everyone, showing everyone love, showing off her poetic skills ... being an example to others. I'm not sure what to think of her being added to the list.

    Sunshyne - Now she does get lots of views and responses to her work ... but I think she pays people to do that for her .. :lol: ... I'm just kidding ... The Sister has the kind of work that folk want to respond to ... that deep love poetry ... I think it's more an indication of her talent than her desire to "get more views and responses" ... and she is usually giving the same kind of love she receives. Yeah ... she makes me sick too! :wink:

    Aaliyamonet - Now Aaliyamonet is relatively new to the Family and again, I'm surprised her name is on the list. I have noticed her posting but haven't paid close attention to how much love she gives others ... but whether a person is giving or receiving love ... it's all good ... because we've got plenty and eventually, if after receiving enough love ... one can't help but give some back.

    MADD - It doesn't seem to be MADD's way to post a lot of responses to peaces. I may be wrong on this, but he seems to come in, spit some stuff out ... and is back on the road again. This is alright with me too though. Just having him come back through, every now and again ... gives me to know that he's still with us ... that's plenty for me.

    Hi-Wa - Another surprise here. This poet is so quiet as well, I've noticed them giving love ... sharing poetry ... keeping the warm and inviting spirit we've fostered alive in our house. This poet is so quiet that I can't even imagine them being listed. Hmmmm ... I guess it's how folk look at things ... some do it different than others.

    Desert Storm - Now you know what, I would think that Desert Storm would be one that complains she doesn't get enough love ... while giving love to this forum and others. Yep, another surprise to see her listed here. Kinda quiet Sister, but consistent in regard to her participation here.

    In regard to some Members being "senior" to others, well, we really can't get past that ... some simply have been here longer ... had more time to foster friendships / relationships ... and more time to establish themselves amongst the readers ... develop a following if you will. Everyone who joins, begins as the "newest" Member, but it doesn't take long and there's a new "newest" Member. All I can suggest is to feel the flow, show some love, share your poetry ... and you will be embraced. I have no doubt of this.

    Again MsLuciousB ... I truly do applaud you for taking this stand ... saying what was on your mind and naming names. It takes a very strong, secure and confident person to do as you've done. I can only hope that I will have such courage when it is necessary for me to exhibit it.

    I hope that those you've mentioned will respond to your concern.

    Much Much Love Sis.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  10. alyce

    alyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I suppose, MsLusciousB, this is why poetry sites like this are special. Before I found Afronet, where most of us "seniors" originated (including Destee), I had never seen a site where you could post and get immediate love for your work. I enjoyed the interaction and it was all very good. Back then, however, the family was much smaller...and we all had/found time to respond to most everyone. If you'll notice...there are a ba-jillion members now..some just come on to read...in fact, MOST come on to read only. There are only a few of us who ever respond. And Most of that group are the poets, themselves.

    I do tend to think it's like Kemetstry said. People do have their favorites. I, myself have no problem with that. Unless someone shows complete disrespect toward someone else PERSONALLY...I don't see the problem. I'll also say here, that I'm sure there are those of us who have gravitated to each other in an even deeper social relationship off the Page. And so, there's a family within the family. I think this is also natural.

    This is far better than the other poetry site we're both members of (won't name it, but you know it)...in terms of that "community" feeling. And there is no way to know who's responding to everyone's work because all is done through e-mail only. And perhaps this is part of the issue for you. I don't get to see who responded to a poem of yours, that those moderators distributed to each member in the group...I only get to e-mail you privately, my response. Do you think that's better, MsLusciousB? And do you think that could be why you are put off by the members you've mentioned here? Because you can physically scroll back and "see" who's responded to what pieces and how often?

    I hope you won't let this worry you much longer. I won't minimize your concern; but I do wish you to know that I recognize that people who are only willing to click onto their "favorites"...are cheating themselves out of some excellent reading elsewhere. I can testify to that my damnself.

    I recommend that everyone check out somebody they haven't ever read before, once in a while... I've been blessed by doing so. Some deep thinkers among us...

    Peace on ya, my sista! :heart:

    alyce
     
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