Black Parenting : Why are children expected to obey their parents

Discussion in 'Black Parenting' started by African_Prince, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    or even to 'respect' them (on the basis that they are their parents)? Children owe their parents nothing, they never asked to be created (which their parents did for their own selfish reasons). Parents aren't doing their children a favor by providing them with food, clothing, shelter etc., they are the reason why they need these things to begin with. I've never understood how parents can be angry with their child or resentful towads them as though they seriously did not know what they were getting into (or at least could have been getting into) when they chose to make a new person, nobody forced them to procreate. Unless there was a mutual and consensual agreement between parent and child for the child to be born, children are not morally obligated to recognize their parent's authority.



    If you create a sentient being, it is your moral obligation to satisfy their needs regardless of how old they are. You are responsible for their needs regardless of whether or not they are capable of satifying them themselves. It is not unjust to not take care of the children you create, for example, I don't think fathers should be forced to pay child support, but it is immoral. The attitude that children are supposed to be 'grateful' to their parents is bizarre. Life is not a gift as there would have to be a pre-existing person who wanted to be born for your having been born to be considered a benefit to you.
     
  2. oldiesman

    oldiesman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    one question...are you a parent?
     
  3. Corvo

    Corvo navigator of live MEMBER

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    You are speaking from an individualistic perspective. A modern Yankee notion. and not from, we all need to survive together or perish.

    Even now, parents are responsible for the safety and education of their children. You don't get a free ride during childhood, other wise you will not learn to be responsible for your self or the group you are part of.

    The Yankee have made it into a God, country and then Family thing. In stead of Family, village, then Nation. So it's no accident that you see things the way you do!

    P.S. This is not a put down, just giving the other perspective to this issue.
     
  4. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I hereby declare this phrase....commandeered.
     
  5. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You know what's bizarre? This whole statement.
    I'm. Just hoping you really don't feel this way AND be a parent too.
     
  6. MsInterpret

    MsInterpret Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Are you angry that you were brought into this world or something? I don't know about you? But I'm grateful that my parents brought me into this world...
    They have been nothing but loving to me...And I do owe them...
    And to say Parent's aren't doing children a favor by providing for them is completely ridiculous...

    Have you ever seen a baby fend for themselves, like go to the store and purchase groceries, get up and change their own diaper or bathe themselves?

    NOW...on the other hand there are some people (i.e. you) who do not deserve to have their own children...especially with views like yours

    How else are we supposed to be here....It's as if you are saying we are supposed to some how ask unborn children if they want to be born. How are we supposed to ask these unborn children for their permission to bring them into this world? Email them? Fax them? Hit them up on Facebook and send a PARENT REQUEST?

    What the.......

     
  7. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Ideally, parents are teaching the children how to live, be and do, successfully.

    Obedience is needed, following instructions, paying attention, etc., if the child is to get all they can from the lesson being taught.

    If the child does not obey, they may still eventually learn the lesson, but it could cost them considerably more (even their life, depending on the lesson).

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  8. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I believe the individualism vs. collectivism dichotomy is overly simplistic. One can advocate co-operation, altruism and mutual aid ( supposedly 'collectivist' values) while still regarding the individual as the center of moral regard and 'society' as an abstraction. All groups, whether it's the family, country, village etc. are abstractions. The idea that a group has 'interests' is a form of anthropomorphism, it's an attempt to give a single personality and consciousness to several distinct individuals who share certain characteristics in common. Only individuals have interests, only individuals can be harmed or benefitted and the interests of a thousand individuals don't outweigh the interests of 1.

    I didn't take your post as a 'put down', I appreciate the criticism.


    You might be grateful that your parents created you but you did not ask them to and had they not created you, you would not have regretted not being created. The pleasure we experience in life is a great thing but it wouldn't have been missed if we were never created. I love reading and eating good food and listening to music but if I had never been created, I wouldn't have a desire to do these things so it wouldn't be unfortunate that I would never do these things.

    If somebody gives you diabetes and they provide you with medicine and insulin shots for the rest of your life, should you be grateful? Your parents are the reason why you need food, clothing, shelter, love etc. If you do not have these things, you will suffer. Since your parents are the reason why you are capable of suffering to begin with, it's only fair that they do whatever is in their power to provide you with what you need to have a decent life. It's great that you're happy to be alive but not everyone is, since we don't know what kind of life future children will have or whether or not they'll be grateful for having been created, our primary consideration should be preventing suffering rather than maximizing pleasure.

    My point exactly. Babies are helpless and rely on others to take care of them only because others chose to create them. If they had never been born, they wouldn't need to be taken care of. If they had never been created, it's not as though they would have been saddened by the fact that they don't exist. Every entity in the universe, except for sentient beings, is in a constant state of peace (if 'peace' is the absence of conflict/distress). There's nothing problematic about being unconscious.



    You have a right to have 20 children if you want to, even if I personally think it is morally irresponsible, I just wish people understood that there are no moral or altruistic reasons to procreate (at least not as far as the unborn child is concerned). People have children because it benefits them, not because it benefits their sperm/egg cells. It's pretty arrogant to feel that someone is obligated to recognize you as an authority figure when they never agreed to the arrangement.

    Destee,

    Recognizing parental authority may (or may not) benefit a child, what I disagree with is the idea that they're morally obligated to do so. If a child doesn't accept his/her parent's authority and it's in his/her best interests to do so, they can't be blamed for not doing so, they have a right to the same autonomy adults do even if they'd be better off otherwise.
     
  9. bientempo

    bientempo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    you have got to be kidding me!!! MY HOUSE MY RULES. As far as some of the other stuff if nothing else you are legally responsible!! In any case respect is earned not mandated. authority is mandated.
     
  10. Wayfarer

    Wayfarer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    DISCALIMER: I am not a parent.

    True, children owe parents nothing, but will appreciate the care and attention (good) parents give them -- and which the children crave. In exchange for good behavior and good choices, smart parents reward children to reinforce those behaviors and choices. Substitute "owe" with "appreciate."

    True, children are not obligated to recognize parental authority. Nonetheless they do by 1.) Design (they are born small and stay small for a long time. Small creatures cannot take care of and defend themselves in a world of large creatures and therefore rely on other large creatures to take care of and protect them); and 2.) Logic, i.e., "It's in my best interest to recognize my parents' authority as they have been here much longer than me and can spare me the unnecessary hardship of trying to navigate life on my own." (This presupposes good, competent parents and conscious children.)

    Satisfying a sentient being regardless of age? This sounds like a remark from a spoiled adult child who expects his/her parents to still take care of him/her. If they choose to do so, fine, But they are certainly under no obligation. Also, I personally feel that children should take care of parents to the extent of their means.

    Fathers should definitely be required to pay support (after the DNA tests validate paternity). If he refuses he will likely regret it when he is alone in his old age, sad about the child(ren) he never knew, and who now don't want to know him.

    Children should definitely be grateful to parents who make their lives easier.

    Visit a hospice and talk to people who are dying. Ask them if life is a gift. Their answers will likely differ from yours.
     
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