Black Sports : WHO'S THE GREATEST

Discussion in 'Black Sports' started by oceolo, May 2, 2005.

  1. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We can never know who is the greatest because we havent been alive long enough to see everyone who ever played but out of the ones you have seen who is the greatest at these different positions in your opinion.

    NFL MY PICKS
    Quarterback Joe Montana
    Running Back Barry Sanders
    Wide Receiver Jerry Rice
    Defensive Lineman Reggie White
    Linebacker Lawrence Taylor
    Cornerback Deion Sanders
    Saftey Ronnie Lott
    NBA
    Center Shaquille O'Neal
    Power Forward Charles Barkley
    Small Forward Scottie Pippen
    Shooting Guard Michael Jordan
    Point Guard Magic Johnson



    MLB
    Hitter Barry Bonds
    Staring pitcher Roger Clemens
    Relief Pitcher Dennis Eckersley


    Boxing

    Heavyweights Mike Tyson
    Middleweights Bernard Hopkins
     
  2. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You pick Mike Tyson over Joe Louis? Jack Johnson? Muhammed Ali? Joe Frazier? George Foreman? Larry Holmes? Evander Holyfield? Lennox Lewis? I don't think he could beat any of these guys, and we know for sure that he couldn't beat the last two. I don't think Tyson is the greatest, in fact I think he was quite overrated!

    Bernard Hopkins is my man, but I think the honor of the greatest middleweight goes to Marvin Hagler (Hopkins himself agrees on that). I also don't think you can overlook Sugar Ray Robinson, although he was best at welterweight.
     
  3. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  4. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm only going by the athletes I have seen first hand,but in his prime I think Tyson could have beaten any of those fighters you mentioned
     
  5. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    while i think on this , i'll add

    BOXING ......
    Heavyweight........the world greatest
    MUHAMMED ALI LEE by far the greatest boxer

    middleweight ....goes to my man M.HAGLER

    Mike Tyson was a good fighter in his youth days
    his reach was short and ability to move wasn't great
    but a power hitter to me and by no means can he be
    the greatest not even in his prime or late goings
    BUSTER prove that Mike really couldn't take punchies

    I'll be back to add my thoughts on the rest of this .........
     
  6. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Buster Douglas didnt beat Tyson he beat himself by not training and taking his
    sport for granted. I believe Tyson in his prime could have beaten any of the greats because there never was a heavyweight with his combination of power and fast hands plus he was an excellent defensive boxer.
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ahhh a boxing debate!

    Mike Tyson was champion during a period of transition in the heavyweight division. The best fighters of the 80s: Michael Dokes, Frank Tate, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick, Gerry Cooney, and Larry Holmes (the only great fighter of this bunch), were all towards the end of their careers. By 1985 Larry Holmes was fading so badly that he lost his title to Michael Spinks, who was a Light Heavyweight (although a great one)!! 20 years later most boxing experts & historians view this period of heavyweight champions and contenders as the worst in boxing history. At the time most felt that this division was bad (thankfully there were great fighters in the lower divisions to fill this gap: Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Aaron Pryor, Donald Curry, etc). Because of the lackluster fighters at heavyweight, boxing media & fans were desperate to find someone to bring some excitement to the division...along came Mike Tyson. Tyson had fought literally no one on his 2 year rise as a heavywight contender. To be fair all fighters face set up opponents & bums on their rise to the top. This is the hone their skills, and build their confidence. However by the time most top fighters reach "contender" status, they are faced with ex-champions & other top contenders to see if they really have the goods. This didn't happen with Tyson, he faced bums until the end. He won all his bouts, and did so with some highlight reel knockouts. As a result Tyson had plenty of fans (which he still has to this day). This was also due to some brilliant marketing on the part of Tyson's handlers (Bill Clayton, Cus D'mato, Jacobs), the like of which is rarely seen in boxing. These guys would take highlights of all Mike Tyson KOs and send them to sports news rooms all over the country. This built up a lot of buzz around Mike Tyson, he gained a reputation as a destroyer, which intimidated most of Mike's opponents (so much so that the majority did not put up a fight against him). However two opponents that were not afraid of Tyson: Mitch Green & James Tillis, were able to take Mike the distance.

    Mike Tyson won his 1st title at the end of 1986 against Trevor Berbick, a past his prime fighter who's biggest victory was beating a 40 year old Ali in 1980!! Tyson won his 2nd title against another old fighter, James "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1987. Both of these fighters were making their 1st title defenses against Tyson, and both were in their mid 30s (an age most fighters are past their prime. Trevor Berbick & James Smith were far from great fighters, they would have never been champ in the 1970s or 90s. That they were ever "champ" shows how weak the Heavyweight division was in the mid-80s (as I already stated most boxing experts rate this as the worst period in heavyweight history). Still of these two, James Smith was able to take Tyson the distance. Mike Tyson did win his 3rd title against a decent young fighter, Tony Tucker (who knocked out James "Buster" Douglass for the title). For that victory I do give Tyson credit, because Tucker was a threat. Although Mike didn't knockout Tucker, he dominated the fight. I think this victory was the best win of Tyson's career. Tyson's defenses were a list of dead bodies: Pinklon Thomas, Tyrell Biggs, Larry Holmes (who was considered washed up in 85 and who hadn't fought in 2 years), Tony Tubbs, Frank Bruno, Michael Spinks (the best fighter Tyson defended against, but who also hadn't fought in 2 years), and Carl Williams. With the exception of Michael Spinks, most of the fighters Tyson defended his title against, would have been reserved for up & coming contenders. Like the bums Mike fought on his rise to the top, most of these ex champs & contenders were too scared of Tyson to give him a decent fight. I would go easy on Mike if there were no top contenders for him to fight during this time, but there was: Evander Holyfield (the former Undisputed Cruiserweight Champ), was the #1 contender during Tyson's reign, and Tyson avoided Holyfield like the plague!!. Specifically Holyfield was the number #1 contender from 1988-1990 (which is the longest a top contender has gone without being granted a title shot). Tyson took so long to fight Evander, that the WBC (Tyson's 1st title) threatened to strip him of the belt, if he didn't face Holyfield. Tyson finally agreed to fight Evander Holyfield in June of 1990, but he wanted 1 more tuneup fight against Buster Douglass.

    Contrary to popular opinion James "Buster" Douglass was not a nobody who beat an unprepared Tyson. Buster Douglass was a very skilled and talented Heavyweight contender, who had not lived up to his potential. He had a reputation for being poorly trained & for quiting in fights, in fact most people thought he quit in his 1st title try against Tony Tucker (a fight he was winning before he suddenly ran out of gas, and was knocked out). Still when Buster Douglass was motivated for a particular fight, he usually won, and won spectacularly. Unfortunately for Mike Tyson, Buster Douglass was motivated (he recently lost his mother) for his 2nd title try. Mike Tyson was not prepared properly for James Douglass, this I will not try to deny. However, the Tyson who fought Douglass would has still beaten Carl Williams, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tubbs, etc. Mike's defeat had as much to do with Buster's skill, as it did with Tyson's lack of preparation. The bottom line is that the first fighter who wasn't scared of Tyson, and who had some skills beat him. This pattern would continue against Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis.

    I know Tyson has some big fans, but he was the champ in a weak division. The best fighters of the 1990s: Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, David Tua, all were just beginning their careers. I don't think Tyson could have ever beaten any of these fighters. If he came along at the same time as these guys (Tyson stared his career at 18, an age most fighters are still amatuers), I don't think he ever would have been champ. Even if he did become champ, he wouldn't have had a long reign. Mike Tyson does have 2 claims to fame: He was the youngest heavyweight champion in history at 20 years old (a feat I don't think will be toped). He also unified the heavyweight division, the 1st heavyweight to unify 3 belts (WBC, WBA, IBF). Because of that, Mike Tyson belongs in a list of the top 10-12 heavyweight Champs. However he not towards the top of that particular list, and he certainly is not #1!
     
  8. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    None of the fighters from the recent era were that great in my opinion that Tyson wouldnt have been able to beat them. Everybody thought Tyson was great back in the day but now everbody thinks he was overrrated that is a hypocritical way to think. All I know is that when Tyson trained hard and was motivated he was unbeatable.How can u say Tyson was champ during a weak period in the heavyweight division and not say the same about Lewis, Holyfield , Bowe or Moorer(Moorer got knocked out by 47 year old George Foreman !) none of them fought any great fighters and they all got beat by no better than average boxers. As far as Tyson opponents everybody thought they were good fighters until Tyson knocked them out have you forgotten a lot of people picked Spinks to beat Tyson because they thought he could out box him. We will never know exactly how great Tyson could have been.
     
  9. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Lewis...Holyfield...Bowe...these guys fought each other. Tyson either lost to them, or avoided them (Bowe). Might I also point out that Tyson had an opportunity to fight Lennox Lewis in 1996 (when he regained the title). However he paid Lennox $4 million to step aside so he could fight Holyfield (who he thought was an easier fight). Thus Tyson again displayed an unwillingness to fight the best competition while champ. Lewis & Holyfield cleaned out a very competitive division in the 90s (Mercer, Moorer, Golota, Tua, Mccall, Hide, Briggs, Cooper, Foreman, etc). Tyson is also the same age as these guys, so it is hard to argue that he wasn't in his prime, while they were. The only decent fighter Tyson fought and beat while he was champ was Michael Spinks. The rest were hopeless cases, and everyone knew they were hopeless cases. I'm not being hypocritical by saying Tyson was overrated, I always felt he was overrated. I was picking Holyfield to beat Tyson back in 1989. It took 7 years for them to finally meet, but when they finally did, what happened was what I always thought would happen!
     
  10. 1poetsought

    1poetsought Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ALI = MOVEMENT OF JAH PEOPLE = THE GREATEST!
     
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