Black Spirituality Religion : Who Can be an Ancestor?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by ifasehun, Jan 7, 2005.

  1. ifasehun

    ifasehun Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  2. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is an awsome thread brotha

    Ashe
     
  3. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is a must read. Many times some of us consider someone an ancestor because they are deceased even though they are not really worthy of this designation.

    This is one reason why I also have difficulty even considering someone worthy of recognition as an elder if they have not experienced Parenthood. How can one pass on a code and traditions of ancestors and elders with no posterity to pass these traditions to?
     
  4. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    (ifasehun) - Here is an exercise when you do your prayers to the Ancestors be sure to call on at least 7 generations. You can do this simply by saying:

    "i give praise to my grandfathers on my fathers side. I give praise to my grandmothers on my fathers side. "
    "i give praise to my great grandfathers on my fathers side. I give praise to my great grandmothers on my fathers side."

    Now go back to great great, then great-great-great etc. Once you have done great x 6, you've praised 6 generations of parents. Now you can add names of individuals that you know to the mix.


    the only question i have here is; what if you don't know the character of a person going 7 generations back? does it not really matter as you aren't calling their name, and don't have a picture?
     
  5. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Good questions. This is why genealogical research is very important. I can go back 6 generations with my daughter being the seventh, on both sides.
     
  6. Love_Unknown

    Love_Unknown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Wonderful post. Posts like these I think make the greatest use of this Spirituality and Religion thread. You've provided practical and very essential information for anyone wishing to learn and practice the ways of our ancestors. Excellent information. Ase Ifasehun.

    Love Unknown
     
  7. imhotep06

    imhotep06 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I've always had this question in the back of my mind and that is, if the spiritual community believes in reincarnation, is it truly "ancestors" you are calling on if more than likely they are back here on Earth serving some purpose? When you do a divination for someone for the first time, a babalawo or okomfo will tell them who they are coming back and why they are here. In that vein, I am the fifth male on my dad's side. If I call on my "ancestors" going 7 generations back, at some point I'm really calling on myself who is actually here.

    So how do you reason this? I know systems are different, for in the Lemba, Khimba and Kimpasi systems, you never rest on the "other" side. Life is a perpetual in and out of energy. You just forever come back and have experiences. In Hindu systems (created by African people), you have experiences until you become a sage and then you "merge" with the source and lose all individuality.

    So is it correct to call on individual ancestors when in reality, on the other side there is a oneness that is undifferentiated? Are we not really calling on an aspect of the source/creator and not the identity we identified here on Earth?

    Peace and Blessings
     
  8. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    my understanding...

    (imhotep06) - I've always had this question in the back of my mind and that is, if the spiritual community believes in reincarnation, is it truly "ancestors" you are calling on if more than likely they are back here on Earth serving some purpose?

    part of the issue here ties into the concept that you have several higher spiritual bodies.
    in kemet, you have the ka, which is the spirit-double that animates the body; and the ba, the higher soul, that effectively drives the whole process.
    after one transitions from this world, the ka, which embodies that person's identity is what is nourished by offerings, and that connection with the ka and higher soul (ba) needs to persist; otherwise that identity will be lost. this is why pictures, personal artifacts of a person...etc are important. the ka will recognize items in the physical world that it owns.
    with reincarnation, it is the ba that is returning and creating a new spiritual identity along with the new body. thus, you can have separate spiritual identities, that are yours, that persist and maintain that connection to your ba (soul). reincarnation is "partial" in this regard; as the lower spiritual identities of individuality are "new".
    recovering "past lives" is reconnecting with previous identities in this manner.
    an identity is not gone until it is forgotten; and thus has no connections with this world.

    (imhotep06) - If I call on my "ancestors" going 7 generations back, at some point I'm really calling on myself who is actually here.

    yep. you are your own ancestor, that energy is within you. however, that spiritual identity of your ancestors can persist; and thus will appreciate offerings...etc.

    (imhotep06) - So is it correct to call on individual ancestors when in reality, on the other side there is a oneness that is undifferentiated?

    my understanding is that the otherside is not undifferentiated oneness. undifferentiated oneness is at the top of the chain. the otherside is differentiated; energy drives itself and propagates throughout creation.

    (imhotep06) - In Hindu systems (created by African people), you have experiences until you become a sage and then you "merge" with the source and lose all individuality.

    in a sense, your brothers and sisters are manifestations of the same spiritual energy that birthed you. while the particular consciousness that is returning within you is somewhat distinct; it is within the same spiritual energy and potential. your energy propagates within your offspring/descendents. thus, a large part of you is guaranteed to return; even if specific aspects of you do not.
     
  9. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Brother OldSoul is teaching on this topic today ... join us ... www.destee.com/chat

    CLASS HAS STARTED! : Brother OldSoul ... Consciousness Raising Online ... Topic: ... Ancestor Respect ... JOIN US!
     
  10. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Quote;

    "If I call on my "ancestors" going 7 generations back, at some point I'm really calling on myself who really is here".

    Exactly.

    And as I neared the age of 49 (7years x 7 cycles) I started "dreaming" again, and have found myself praying less to an "external" deity. Why?

    Perhaps a realization affirming what you state to the effect that "Are we not really calling on an aspect of the source/creator and not the identity we identified here on earth."

    I know this sounds crazy and is difficult to explain, but at the same time helps to explain why I find myself identifying less with racial, ethnic, and ideological LABELS which do not correctly describe my ESSENTIAL nature, the indwelling-Spirit body manifesting in flesh.
     
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