Black Muslims : Who are the Hebrews?? Part One

Discussion in 'Islam Study Group' started by Neb Akhu Ra, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep!
    In the three monolatristic faiths there is a group of people who serve as the focal point and chief proponents of the worship of the called called El. This group of people are called hebrews. In the scriptures of these faiths the first person to receive the appelation of Hebrew is the man called Ibrahim/Abraham. Ibrahim had two sons Ismail/Ishmael and Ishaq/Isaac, who then developed two nations, Hebrews and Arabs, both keeping the root from which their name derived in them, the aramaic word awbar. According to the Hebrew Lexican awbar means the following:
    5674 `abar aw-bar' a primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literal or figurative; transitive, intransitive, intensive, causative); specifically, to cover (in copulation):--alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-)come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass(-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim(-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress(-or), translate, turn away, (way-)faring man, be wrath.
    Thus the Hebrews, whether called Hebrews or Arabs, are a group of people who crossed over, who escaped, who left one place to go to another. Also interesting is the connotation this word has in the Akan languages, where the word for hebrew is expressed as afrimu-or a people who seceeded or left a larger group of people. Thus the Hebrews are a group of people who left a larger group of people to dedicate themselves to a certain idea and culture. Based on linguistic evidence and comparative culture, there is evidence that the root group of these people were an African people dwelling within continental Africa. With the beginning understanding of the meaning of Hebrew, it calls us to now reevaluate our classifying of them as a people, and a reassessment of the culture which they presented to the world.
    At the present my time to post is limited, however this post was simply meant to introduce the idea, and 'till the soil' if you will, to be followed by the planting of the seed.
     
  2. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +3,382
    You may want to thoroughly check out the forums on here...because we done beat this particular horse dead already....skinned it, tanned the hide and then hung it out to dry...:horse:
     
  3. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep!
    Jazakallahu bil kahir for the advice Bro. Keita. However, my intent is not so much as to engage in dialogue but using this forum as a sounding board to share relevant truths to the Original People, not discuss or debate their reality.

    Hetep!
     
  4. Da Street So'ja

    Da Street So'ja Banned MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2001
    Messages:
    7,648
    Likes Received:
    40
    Occupation:
    thrivin' spiritually/physically/emotionally/financ
    Location:
    where failure is not an option
    Ratings:
    +42
    um


    i don't think Bro. K is trying to dialogue
    check the source he give you he said check the forums (mainly spiritually and religion) but the Open Forum might include some information too.

    bro. K has talked about it, typed about it, because he is all about it

    man you could do a search on KEITA's posts and learn something

    peace on your journey
     
  5. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep!
    Jazakallhu bil Khair Street So'ja. I think the response to Bro. Keita wasnt given in the spirit intended. I have looked over the threads in regards to the ethnic origin of the Hebrew people and find them very informative. However, by bringing the topic up in this particular forum the intent is to take the historical information about the identity of the Hebrews and see how it relates to an African understanding and practice of Al Islam. Yes, I can learn many things from Bro. Keita and the other forum members, and may re-hash a topic already presented, however the purpose is to use the fractions, facts, to paint an image of a cohesive afro-centric picture of Islam, rather than just establishing historical facts.
    In sha'allah, this clears up the intent of both my original post and response.
    Hetep!
     
  6. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +3,382

    Okay, here's what we'll do if it's okay with you; Here is my challenge.

    1. First let's get into the etymology of the word "hebrew".

    2. Then lets explore what historical representations we have of them to see if we can find a physical African reality of them.

    3. Then lets get into the very first historical or spiritual/religious mention of their existence in terms of who they are said to be.

    4. If we can make it past Abraham/Ibrahim that history clearly proves did not exist as a human being, then we are doing good.

    5. Being that we already know that every religion in existence borrowed/stole their concepts/foundation from our people, there is no debate about where or if there is an African reality to Al Islam or any other religion.

    6. Since history somehow has preserved the image of people who did much less than any of the Prophets that are written down as such exceptional men to have walked this earth...our next goal is to find some image of these Prophets and if we can't we must find out why not?...After all, it would go against human nature to somehow sculpt, paint, carve, draw and preserve the images of lesser men and then for some strange reason not preserve the image of men who are greater.

    If you can make it this far we will be in a position to communicate further on this issue.


    I understand you position and equally understand as Bro. Malcolm so well said; "History is best qualified to reward ALL RESEACH"...so in reality there is no way to escape history or the facts of it, for it is from the facts that a clear picture can be drawn or seen for what it is or is not....and this is coming from an ex Sunni, Shiite and Sufi, which I used to be before waking up to who we rally are.

    In sha'allah, this clears up the intent of both my original post and response.
    Hetep![/QUOTE]
     
  7. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep Bro. Keita,
    In regard to the second point, as i think the first one was discussed in the original post, I think we have a representation of the Hebrews from African history in the works of Manetho, or as Dr Darkwah says he should be called Omane Anto. In the works of Manetho he speaks of a group of people from Kem which were classified as 'lepers', seceeded or were removed from Kemetic society and became the people we know as the Hebrews. The linguistics support this theory as the speech of Kem is proto-semitic. Lepers in Kem does not denote, as it does in the bible, people who have physical whiteness, but rather denotes a group of societal outcast. If we read the account given by Manetho/Omane Anto, the place where these people retreated and the circumstances surrounding their expulsion, we see historical parallels between that story and the Atenist movement of Akenten. Also, I think agreat disservice has been done by seemingly meaning well historians and quote on quote teachers by designating the Heka Khasut as white people. In fact, the earliest references we have in Kem to the Heka Khasut refer to them as a Nubian group of people, which unmistakably akes them black, and provides other evidence as to the reality of these people called the Hebrews. (Also interesting to note that According to Wade Nobles the Purely African dynasties of Kem were the 1, 4, 18, and 25 dynasties, and the 18th is the one which saw the rise of Akenten and his Heka Khasut affinities, now that we can view the Heka Khasut as a Nubian people. As well as the designation of the Hebrew god as El, its derivation from Ra, and Akentens position before ascension to the throne as the Priest of Ra.)
     
  8. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    5,642
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +3,382
     
  9. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep!
    Yes it is true rhat Manetho did say that Osarseph was Moses. However, this does not disprove the theory. As these people existed as a group, and were then led out of Kem by Musa. The point was asking if there is a place in history where we have a mention of them as a reality. Where do you get that Habiru means chief devils? Where do you get that bu means devil? For instance Ha Nebu means North Lords, where is the bu=devil coming from?
    Manetho as an actual person does not matter, if that is the case we equally dont know if Akhenaten, Thutmose etc were real people as we know about them the awy we know about Manetho, historical documentation. Also the presence of the works of Manetho in so many varied classical works is additional proof that he, and or his writings, have some historical basis. Also, where is the proof that the Heka Khasut, Shepherd Kings, are a non-black people?? Because they are viewed as invaders soes not make them not black, as the Kemites had similar disdain for the Nubians. Also, we must remember that, according to Chancellor Williams, after a period of time Kem as a black population dwindled, and the masses of the people of Kem were mixed breeds, who had disdain for both the whites and Africans who were their progenitors. Thus we see references equally to the vile asiatic as well as the wretched cu****e.
    This Anu and coming out the water reptilian stuff, where is this coming from? and what is its relevance to the identification of Kem?
    Also in the Mythology of the Races series when discussing the habiru, it should be mentioned that they seemed to form a class within various North African and Near Eastern socities rather than a genetically homogenous group, and this is the current anthropological concensus.
    Anu=Sumer, but we are speaking of Kem, and to introduce him to a discussion of what we know were originally Afrikans, smacks of the Dynastic Race Hypothesis of the nineteenth and early twentieth century, which sought to disconnect Kem from its Sub Saharan roots.
     
  10. Neb Akhu Ra

    Neb Akhu Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14
    Hetep!
    One more point. Linguistically by saying a language is "proto" anything we are not saying that it is derived from the language, but that that language is derived from it. So by kemetic speech being proto-semitic, it means the semitic languages are derived evolutionarily from it, and not it from them. Also, you make reference to three stages or what have you of Kemetic speech, these are evolutionary stages of the language of Kem itself, going from archaic forms to more advanced forms, and has nothing to do with which one is proto semitic, as all three are the same language simply at different stages of development.
    Hetep.
     
Loading...