Black Spirituality Religion : WHETHER GOD IS WITH FORM OR FORMLESS

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by dattaswami1, May 28, 2005.

  1. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Q.) The Sikh Religion says that God is formless. We have to worship the God in form like human being in whom the power of God exists and not the God, i.e., the beginning stage, which is easy. We have to travel from simple stage to complicated stage. We have to worship the formless God finally, which is complicated. But you are propagating the reverse. Can you enlighten me on this? (A believer of Sikh Religion).

    Ans.) Do you think that we have to travel from clarity to confusion or from confusion to clarity? Anything becomes complicated when there is confusion. Anything becomes easy when there is clarity. Clarity is the real knowledge and confusion is the real ignorance. We must travel from ignorance to knowledge and not vice-versa. When you say that God is formless, there is no complication. God is like all pervading space or cosmic energy. A 10th class student who has studied physics can very easily understand this. But when a particular human being is declared as God the real complication arises, because He is looking like any human being. How this particular human being is God and every human being is not God? You have to analyze the internal form of the human incarnation and differentiate Him from an ordinary human being. Lot of logical analysis is required here only. Moreover egoism and jealousy attack immediately any one and due to this no body accepts a particular human being as God.

    Actually God is unimaginable and you cannot say that He has form or formless. He is not the space, which is formless. But you imagine Him like space. You have caught the space only in your imagination and not the real God. Somebody says that a peculiar animal in the forest called as Gavaya looks like cow, you have imagined only the cow and not the Gavaya animal. Unless you perceive God directly how can you imagine Him? Your imagination itself is nervous energy. Thus you perceive the unimaginable God through space and nervous energy. Both the space and nervous energy are parts of the creation. If you analyze the human body it is also energy occupying certain space. Therefore, you perceive God through the medium of space and energy. A medium, which is a part of the creation, is essential to imagine the unimaginable God. Unimaginable is different from formless. Space is formless but not unimaginable. First you distinguish between these two. The Guru of your Sikh Religion is actually the human incarnation and worshipping Him is the real worship of God. The reason for your Guru not encouraging the human incarnation is that the fraud Gurus are claiming themselves as God. It is really difficult to recognize the real human incarnation in which, God dwells. Certainly there is a large probability of fraud persons who claim themselves as God and mislead you. But you should not run away from analyzing the genuine incarnation fearing for the fraud persons. Any system has loopholes. The system cannot be rejected due to the loopholes. One cannot avoid the train journey since there is a risk of accident.

    One cannot abolish the examination system because there is a probability of copying. One cannot abolish the administration offices of the Government, as there is probability of corruption. There is a risk of artificial diamonds to be confused as original diamonds. Due to this will you avoid purchasing the necklace of original diamonds? You will take the help of an expert in selecting the original diamond. The human incarnation is the most convenient form for the worship and service. When you say that God is omni-potent it means that God has all powers. If He cannot come in human form, He is not having that power. Then He cannot be omni-potent. When He has the power to take the human incarnation, He has come in human form. Who are you to object that? He comes in human form for those devotees who are fond of worshipping Him through real service. They like to talk with God and live with God. They like to serve the God and see the pleasure in His face. They get full satisfaction by that. Therefore, God is in human form for such devotees only. Those who do not like the human form can worship God through formless inert items like space, energy etc. or inert forms like statues.

    But such worship is not the direct worship and it is only a representative worship. Neither space is God nor God is in the space. Similar is the case of a statue. Both formless space and formful statue stand as representatives of God only. Of-course God is pleased with the representative worship also, but the direct experience of God and the possibility of pleasing Him to the maximum extent are possible in the human body only. A devotee by name Jyothi asked a question about the possibility of talking with God directly. She should investigate the human incarnation at present and can talk directly. The procedure to identify the human incarnation based on the scriptures is extensively explained by Me in several answers to the questions that are placed in the web-site (www.**************************). One has to identify the present human incarnation using that procedure, in which the inseparable characteristics of God in the human incarnation are well explained. God is coming in human form in every human generation. If He had come only in a particular human generation God becomes partial to that generation only. God wants to talk with His devotees to please them by clearing all their doubts. This is the main purpose of the human incarnation of God.

    If you don’t believe the human incarnation you need not approach the human incarnation. But there is a devotee like Jyothi, who is very much anxious to talk with God. You can neither object her nor the God to take the human form. You carry on your representative worship. She is not objecting you. If you don’t want to purchase the original diamonds do not purchase. But you should not object a person who wants to purchase the original diamond. Thus God provided both the ways separately. You purchase the artificial diamonds and let somebody purchases the original diamond. Those who want to pray God without talking with God, let them have the representative worship having formless God or statues. Those who want to pray, talk and worship the living God, let them have the human incarnation. You should not object the desire of other devotee and also the God who is capable to fulfill the desire of that devotee.
     
  2. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Will The Real God Please Stand Up ?






    All Throughout The Scripture God Is Depicted As Being Physical . So Why When I Tell You Chosse Which God You Want To Follow . Since Your Bible Which Has Been Translated Into Eng - Go - Lish Lauguage . And The Translators Tried To Make A Distinction In The Eng - Go - Lish Between '' God '' Or god '' Why Can't I Ask Will The Real One Which Even One You Chosse Being That If You Can Read The Scripture In The Original Languages This Problem Wouldn't Exist . But , Being ThatYou Don't , And You Wont . You Have To Make The Conscious Decision That Since '' I'm A God - Fearing Individual And Have Based My Life On This Bible , And I Am Totally Relying On Another Man's Translations To Guide Me To The Truth , Then I Must Take On The Responsibility




    And Choose Which God I Follow Be It '' GOD , God . Or god '' Since The Distinction Has Been Made ! Do You Follow ? And While You're Deciding , Ask Yourself Why If The People That Existed During The Time Of The Bible , And They Believed In The Omnipresence ( A God That Is EveryWhere ) Of This God Why Did '' God '' ( Theos ) Himself Have To Manifest In
    1St Timothy 3 ; 16 And I Quote '' GOD WAS MANIFEST ...' If Everyone So Believe In Him . The Aramic ( Hebrerw ) Word Used For Manifest '' Is '' Phaneroo '' Meaning '' To Make Manifest , To Appear , Show . Or To Make Visible '' . And In The Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Word Used Is '' Jahara '' Meaning . '' To Come Out , To Show , Or Appear '' . And As You Read He Did Manifest But In A Destructive Way Through Nature . Then , Not Only Did God Manifest Himself . And In 2nd Kings 1 ; 12 It States And I Quote '' FIRE OF GOD CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ...And How Did This God Come Down From The Heaven ? Was He In Human Form ? According To Your Bible And I Quote ,





    ) Exodus 15 ; 3 <> God Is A Man Of War = The Lord ( Yahweh ) Is A Man Of War / Okay ! Your God Is A Man Of War According To The Bible ?
    2 ) . Psalm 27 ; 8 <> God Has A Face = Thy Face Lord ( Yahweh ) Will I Seee / And This God Who Is A Man Of War Has A Face .
    3 ) . Psalm 11 ; 4 <> God Has Eyes , And Eyelids ! / The ( Lord ( Yahweh ) Is In His Holy Temple . The Lord's Throne Is In Heaven ; His Eyes Behold His Eyelids Try / And On God Who Is This Man Of War Has A Face With Eyes And Eyelids .
    4 ) . Acts 17 ; 30 <> God Winks ! = God ( Theos ) Winked = And On God Who Is This Man Of War Has A Face . With Eyes That Wink To See With !
    5 ) . Genesis 8 ; 21 <> God Has A Nose ! = And The Lord ( Yahweh ) Smelled A Sweet Savor / So This God Who Is This Man Of War Has A Face With Eyes That Wink , And Has A Nose To Smell With .
    6 ) . Isaiah 1 ; 20 <> God Has A Mouth ! = For The Mouth Of The Lord ( Yahweh ) / And This God Who Is This Man Of War Has A Face With Eyes That Wink , Has A Nose To Smell , And A Mouth To Speak And Eat With .





    7 ) . Isaiah 30 ; 27 <> God Has Anger , Lips And A Tongue ! = Behold , The Name Of The Lord ( Yahweh ) Cometh From Far . Burning With His Anger . And The Burden Thereof Is Heavy ; His Lips Are Full Of Indignation , And His Tongue As A Devouring Fire / So What Your Bible Is Telling Us So Far Is That Is God Who Is A Man Of War Has A Face With Eyes That Wink , And A Nose And Mouth Is Angry . And His Lips. That Are Full Of Indignation Which Is A Reaction To An Injustice Or Meanness . And A Tongue As A Devouring Fire ..
    8 ) . Isaiah 40 ; 7 <> God Has Bad ( Hot ) Breath That Withered The Grass And Made The Flowers Fade ! = The Grass Withereth . The Flower Fadeth ; Because The Spirit ( Breath ) Of The Lord ( Yahweh ) Bloweth Upon It / Then It Tells Us That This God Who Is A Man Of War Has A Face With Eyes That Wink , And A Nose And Mouth Is Angry . And His Lips That Are Full Of Indignation , Which Is A Reaction To An Injustice Or Meanness , And A Tongue As Devouring Fire . Has Bad Breath .
    9 ) . Psalm 18 ; 6,8 <> God Has , A Mouth And Exhale Smoke From Out Of His Nostrils , So God Smokes ! <> I Called Upon My Lord ( Yahweh ) And Cried Unto My God ( Eloheem ) He Heard My Voice Out Of His Temple . And My Cry Came Before Him , Even Into His Ears . There Went Up A Smoke Out Of His Nostril And Fire Out Of His Mouth / So Not Only Does This God Who Is A Man Of War Have A Face With Eyes That Wink . And A Nose And Mouth Is Angry . And Lips That Are Full Of Indignation , Which Is A Reaction To An Injustice Or Meanness , And A Tongue As A Devouring Fire . That Has Had Breath . He Smoke Too ?
    10 ) . Isaiah 7 ; 18 <> God Hisses = And It Shall Come To Pass In That Day , That The Lord ( Yahweh ) Shall Hiss / So This God Who Smokes , Has Bad Breath Wink His Eyes , Has A Nose And An Angry Mouth And Lips That Are Full Of Indignation , A Tongue As A Devouring Fire , Hisses Like A Snake , Because Snakes Hiss , People Talk !
    11 ) . Isaiah 52 ; 10 <> God Has A Holy Arm !
    12 ) . Psalms 8 ; 1 , 3 , <> God Has Fingers ! = O Lord ( Yahweh ) Thy Lord ( Adown
    When I Consider Thy Heaven , The Work Of Thy Fingers ''





    13 ) . Exodus 24 ; 10 <> God Has Feet ! = And They Saw The God ( Eloheem ) Of Israel ; And ( There Was ) Under His Feet / So Not Only Is This God Who Smokes , Has Bad Breath Wink His Eyes , Has A Nose And An Angry Mouth And Lips That Are Full Of Indignation , A Tongue As A Devouring Fire . Hisses Like A Smoke . He Has Arms . Fingers And Feet !
    14 ) . Judge 5 ; 23 <> God Is Powerless Against The Might And Need Man's Help ? = Because They Came Not To The Help Of Lord ( Yahweh ) .To The Help Of The Lord ( Yahweh ) Against The Mighty '' / Then To Top It All Off This God Who Smokes . Has Bad Breath , And Winks His Eyes , Has A Nose , Arms , Fingers , And Feet , And An Angry Mouth And Lips That Are Full Of Indignation , A Tongue As A Devouring Fire . And Hisses Like A Snake , He's Powerless Against The Mighty And Needs Man's Help !
    15 ) . Numbers 23 ; 22 <> God Has The Strength Of A Unicorn ! = '' God ( El ) Brought Them Out Of Egypt ; He Hath As It Were The Strength Of An Unicorn '' / And Now You Mean To Tell Me This Mighty God Who Need Man Help Against The Mighty , Only Has The Strength Of A Unicorn ?
    16 ) . Genesis 2 ; 2 <> God Has A Job And Gets Tired ! = And On The Seventh Day God ( Eloheem ) Ended His Work Which He Had Made ; He Rested On The Seventh Day From All His Work ../ So He Has A Job And Gets Tired And Goes To Sleep , That Is According To Your Bible ?
    Well . What Kind Of Job Does He Have ? Because It State In Genesis 1 ; 1 In The Beginning God Created The Heaven And The Earth . '' Does He Have Other Jobs , Since He's So Tired And Has To Rest ?





    17 ) . Genesis 3 ; 21 <> God Is A Tailor ! = Unto Adam Also Unto His Wife Did The Lord ( Yahweh ) God ( Eloheem ) Make Coats Of Skins . And Clothed Them ''
    18 ) . Isaiah 7 ; 20 <> God Is A Barber ! = In The Same Day Shall The Lord ( Adonai Shave With A Razor . / He 's Doing All Of This Work Does He Have A Family ?
    19 ) Genesis 6 ; 2 <> The Sons Of ( God Eloheem ) / Has Sons ? Yes And His Son Have Sex With Woman According To The Bible !
    20 ) Genesis 6 ; 4 <> God's Son's Has Sex With Woman = When The Son's Of God
    ( Eloheem ) Came In Unto The Daughters Of Men And They Bare Children To Them / How Did God Have Sons ? It Tells You Right In Your Bible , Just Look , And If You Don't Believe Me Check It Out ! In John 7 ; 42 It States That '' Concerning His Son Jesus Christ Our Lord . Which Was Made Of The Seed Of David '' And The Greek Word Used Here Is '' Sperma '' Meaning '' The Seed , The Issue , The Semen Virile '' . So , Here You See That The God Of The Bible Is Very Physical , He Has Body Parts He Works , He Gets Tired , And Even Rests . Just Like You . Is This Your God , And Is He A Big '' G '' Or A Little '' g '' Or All Capital Letters '' GOD ''





    Before Religion , people believed or had faith in The Sun And Rocks . These were before The Bible . So before Moses there were people . Who were these people . And who did they have Faith in . So again , There is no such thing As God Without Man . So Man Is God And God Is Man . The Moment You Say God Exist , He Does And If You Don't Then He Doesn't Exist To You . Now , Some People May Say That's Blasphemy . That Because They Do Not OverStand . As The Scripture Says In Psalm 82 ; 6 And I Quote '' I Say YOU ARE GODS CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH , ALL OF YOU And In '' John 10 ; 34 And I Quote '' JESUS ANSWERED '' ISIT NOT WRITTEN IN YOUR LAW , '' I SAID YOU ARE GODS ? What Do You Think That Means , Ask Your So - Called Religious Leaders To Explain It To You . It Shouldn't Be Difficult . It Means Exactly What It Say . Here Is Something Interesting . Can You Believe That Your Bible States That The Lord Had A Counselor And Was Taught . Of Course The Average Christian Would Try To Justify It . But Says It According To Your Own Bible In Isaiah 10 ; 13 And I Quote ;




    Isaiah 40 ; 13 - 14 '' Who Haith Directed The Spirit Of The Lord , Or Being His Counselor Haith Taught Him ? With Whom Took He Counsel , And Who Instructed Him , And Taught Him In The Path Of Judgment . And Taught Him Knowledge , And Shewed To Him The Way Of Understanding ?
    '' Even The So - Called Atheist Believe In God By Saying The Statement '' I Don't Believe In God '' Who Don't You Believe In ? God . That Means You Believe He Exists Even If You Haven Put Your Faith Or Trust In Him .
    The Following Is A Clipping From The Plain Truth Magazine According To Them There Are Alot Of Contadictions In The Bible . There Are Claimed Contradictions That Theologians Have Not Resolved To Every Atheists Satisfaction . There Are Textual Difficulties With Which Scholars Are Still Wrestling . Only A BIBLE ILLITERATE WOULD DENY THESE AND OTHER PROBLEM''
    Bible Contradictions






    ) . While in Genesis , In Chapter 5 & 11 mentions 19 generation between Adam and Abraham . Luke adds one more .
    2 ) . According to 2Samuel 24 ; 1 , God provoked David to take a census of Israel , However , according to 1Chronicles 21 ; 1 The one who provoke David was Satan not God .
    3 ) . According to 2Kings 24 ; 8 Jehoiacin was eighteen years old when he became King , But according to 2Chronicles he was only eight years old .
    4 ) . According to 1Chronicles 8; 36 Ahaz was the father of Jehoaddah , But in the following Chapter , 9 ; 42 Ahaz was the father of Jarah .
    5 ) . According to Exodus 24 ; 10 The elders of Israel saw The God Of Israel ; However , John 1 ; 18 Claime that no man has seen God at any time . The only begotten son which is the bosom of The Father . He declared him John's enthuisiasm to make Jesus incarmated God makes him contradict The Old Testament . It is interesting that The New Revised Version of King James tries to save John by inserting the Magic word '' Actually '' Into the verse and I quote '' No One Has Actually Seed God...





    ) . According to your bible where it states Mark 3 ; 29 There is an Unpardonable Sin . However , according to Acts13 ; 9 there isnot an Unpardonable Sin .
    7 ) . Accrding to Genesis 1 ; 25 , 26 , 27 man was created after the other animals and According to Genesis 2 ; 18 , 19 man was created before the animals .
    8 ) . According To Genesis 8 ; 22 seed time and harvest never ceased and according to Genesis 41 ; 54 / Genesis 45 ;6 seed time and harvest did ceased forseven years .
    9 ) According to Exodus 4 ;21 / Exodus 9 ; 12 God hardened the pharaoh's heart however , According to Exodus 8 ; 15 the Pharoah hardened his own heart .
    10 ) According to Exodus 9 ; 3 , 6 All the cattle and horses in egypt died but , if you look in Exodus 14 ; 9 all the cattle and horses of egypt did not die .
    11 ) . Moses feared the pharaoh according to Exodus 2 did not fear pharaoh but Hebrew 11 ; 27 Has itas hedid fear the pharoah .





    12 ) . 1Cor 10 ; 8 States that the plaque killed 23,000 Yet , Num 25 ; 9 Has it that the plaque killed 24,000
    13 ) . John The Baptist was Elias according to Matthew 11 ; 14 But you go based on John's recording in John 1 ; 21 John The Baptist was not Elias .
    14 ) . According to Matthew 1 ; 16 The father of Joseph , Mary's Husband was Heli However in Luke 3 ; 23 It States that The father of Mary's Husband was Heli
    15 ) . Matthew 1 ; 17 Speaks Of How there were fourteen generation from Abraham to David But when you look in Matthew 1 ; 2 - 6 It speaks of how There were but thirteen Generation from Abraham to David Matt 1 ; 2 - 6
    16 ) . According to Matt 2 ; 14 , 15 , 19 , 21 , 23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt But in Luke 2 ; 22, 39 The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt .
    17 ) . According to 2Samuel 24 ; 9 Joab reported The Number of fighting men '' Eight hundred thousand in Israel . And'' Five hundred thousand in Judah '' . But the same report according to Chronicles 21 ; 5 is '' One million one hundred thousand in Israel . and '' Four hundred and seventy thousand in Judah .





    18 ) . According to Kings 8 ; 26 '' Ahaziah was twenty - two years old when he became King '' But according to 2Chronicles 22 ; 2 He was '' Fourty two years old when he became King . '' Obviously the latter one is wrong since Ahaziah'a father was in His 40's When he died 2Chronicles 21 ; 5 . According To the Chronicles 22 ; 2 He was two years older than his father when he became King after his father's Death !
    19 ) . According to 2Samuel 6 ; 23 '' Michal Daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death . However , in 2Samuel 21 ; 8 We see Michal had borne five sons . Some revised versions tried to get rid of this contradiction by changing the name of Michal to Merab Unceremoniously ! You may find the trace of this in a Footnote .
    20 ) . While Genesis , In Chapter 5 & 11 '' Mentions 19 Generation between Adam and Abraham Luke adds onemore . According To Genesis Shela isthe son of Arphaxad . But to Luke Shela is the son of Cainan . Obviously , either one has added , or the other had dismissed Cainan .
    21 ) . According to Genesis 6 ; 3 , Man can have a Maximum Of '' A Hundred and Twenty years' '' Life Span . However in Genesis 9 ; 29 We learn that Noah lived 950 years , and in Genesis 11 ; 13 Arpaxad lived 403 Years .
    22 ) . According to 2Kings 24 ; 8 '' Ahaz was the father of Jehoaddah , '' But in the following Chapter , 9 ; 42 '' Ahaz was the father of Jarah .











    It's Not The Things One Knows That Get One In Trouble , It The Things One Know That Just Isn't So That Gets Him / Her In Trouble / And Say The Facts Beyond Any Doubt Have Come And False Ways Were To Vanish
     
  3. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Are you an atheist?
     
  4. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Your So Funny




    Atheist , Which Really Is A - Against And Thehos - Gods'' In The Greek Language . So The Word '' A '' Means ''Against '' And '' Theos '' Means . Those Beings ''; So You Get '' Against God . So Yes I'm Against You Fake God That You Serve , Which Is Christianity That The White Gave You . And I Find It To Be Very Insulting You Are In Here Pushing His @#$$ On The Nubians In Here That's Why I'm Here To Cut-Up All Of His And Your Like = The Truth Is Not Found In At LIAR 1John 2;4






    It's Not The Things One Knows That Get One In Trouble , It The Things One Know That Just Isn't So That Gets Him / Her In Trouble / And Say The Facts Beyond Any Doubt Have Come And False Ways Were To Vanish
     
  5. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Father has a form, but it's one that can only be seen in His own presence and not our imaginations, so until we see the Most High, His presence isn't a form to us as we are used to seeing. But rather, we feel the Father in the Spirit, just as we feel the Son, and so long as we hold the faith in the Father and the Son with belief to the truth, such as the sacrifice He made in the body and the resurrection from the dead in the 3rd day, then we will forever have this feeling and things greater to come. :)
     
  6. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You know what is interesting? The Whites became converted to Christianity. Some in truth and some had hypocrisy. Think of what the world might be like if they had not. It was Dr. King Jr. that once again converted them through the Reverend's knowledge and spirit of peace in the gospel. He lived what he learned of God, and he changed the dynamics of this nation in understanding for their fellow man. Dr. King sealed his faith in the testimony of his own blood by evil that did not want him having any influence on white people. Too bad, it was too late and he already effected the character of this nation through his faith that he took to the White people.

    White people did not make up the Bible. It is was written as record by brown people, Semites. Even Christ was not white; but a Semite. So, I guess some could convict White people of running forward and grabbing up all the Christ teachings for their own. Is that it? They grabbed it all up and there is none left? In slave days White people warred with White people. Why? because they thought that there were White hypocrites in the land. If Southern politics really had an understanding of the scriptures, they would have known that this country was ordained for Joseph's coat of may colors -- in America. This is the nation founded on immigrants of many colors. Joseph was prophesied to go over and went over the wall (the ocean) with his coat. Gen. 49: 22 to America.
     
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