Black Spirituality Religion : What is a Sabian and How Do They Compare To Other Cultures?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by UBNaturally, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Was curious to gather understanding on this form of considerable culture, and still not sure if there is any valid manner to capsulize it without being in err.

    This is what I have come across though.

    Sabian sect keeps the faith

    upload_2015-3-1_15-5-23.png
    Water plays big role: Sabian grooms wash their hands after baptism in Baghdad. Members of the centuries-old sect, which is neither Muslim nor Christian, believe couples should be baptized before marriage.

    BAGHDAD — Dressed in gleaming white robes, a small group of Sabians gathered on a Sunday afternoon to wash away their sins — and to forget about the problems facing Iraq and the followers of their ancient religion.

    upload_2015-3-1_15-8-58.png

    The Sabians belong to a centuries-old sect that follows the teachings of John the Baptist but is neither Muslim nor Christian. Flowing water plays a symbolic role in their faith, and several people were baptized at the recent ceremony, including three couples who were getting married.

    Source:
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-09-27-iraqweek_N.htm



    Islam and other religions

    During the thirteen years that Muhammad led his followers against the Meccans and then against the other Arab tribes, Christian and Jewish communities who had submitted to Muslim rule were allowed to worship in their own way and follow their own family law, and were given a degree of self-government.

    Some Jews generally rejected Muhammad's status as a prophet. According to Watt, "Jews would normally be unwilling to admit that a non-Jew could be a prophet." In the Constitution of Medina, Muhammad demanded the Jews' political loyalty in return for religious and cultural autonomy.


    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions



    This is what wikipedia offers:

    The Constitution of Medina (Ṣaḥīfat ul-Madīnah), also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians and pagans.​



    Dhimmi

    A dhimmī ("the people of the dhimma") is a historical term referring to non-Muslim citizens of an Islamic state. The word literally means "protected person." According to scholars, dhimmis had their rights fully protected in their communities, but as citizens in the Islamic state, had certain restrictions, and it was obligatory on them to pay the jizya tax. Dhimmis were excluded from specific duties assigned to Muslims, and did not enjoy certain political rights reserved for Muslims, but were otherwise equal under the laws of property, contract, and obligation. They were also exempted from the zakat tax paid by Muslims.

    Under sharia, the dhimmi communities were usually subjected to their own special laws, rather than some of the laws which were applicable only to the Muslim community. For example, the Jewish community in Medina was allowed to have its own Halakha courts, and the Ottoman millet system allowed its various dhimmi communities to rule themselves under separate legal courts. These courts did not cover cases that involved religious groups outside of their own community, or capital offences. Dhimmi communities were also allowed to engage in certain practices that were usually forbidden for the Muslim community, such as the consumption of alcohol and pork.

    Historically, dhimmi status was originally applied to Jews, Christians, and Sabians. This status later also came to be applied to Zoroastrians, Mandaeans, Hindus, and Buddhists. Eventually, the Hanafi, the largest school of Islamic jurisprudence, applied this term to all non-Muslims living in Islamic lands outside the sacred area surrounding Mecca, in present-day Saudi Arabia. Some modern Hanafi scholars, however, do not make any legal distinction between a non-Muslim dhimmi and a Muslim citizen.

    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi


    Four categories of Muslims?



    The following below holds a decent summation of information, but still doesn't expound fully on the contrasts between the Sabians and Jews, Christians, and Muslims.


    Islam and the People of the Book

    In the Qur'an and Hadith, the term People of the Book (′Ahl al-Kitāb) is used to refer to followers of certain monotheistic faiths which pre-date the advent of Islam. In particular, it refers to the Christian, Jewish, and Sabian faiths. This page contains summaries of articles discussing the relationship between Islam and the People of the Book.

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_the_People_of_the_Book


    This Q&A offers a response, but will have to look further to associate it with equal discovery.

    Q: Who Are the Sabians Mentioned in Quran?

    A: Their beliefs and cults have many similarities to Judaism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism, the adherents of which are referred to in the Quran as the Majus, and carry various elements from these religious traditions (Gündüz, 28-29).​

    In the early Islamic period there was little scope for confusion about the identification of the Sabians, unlike in later sources. It is true that there are some differences between these scholars on some characteristics of the Sabians, but there is a common opinion about who the Sabians were and what the chief features of their religion were.

    It was in the Abbasid period that speculations arose on the Sabians around the claim that they followed the planet cult of ancient Mesopotamia. From this period onwards, most scholars have seen a special connection between the term Sabians and the pagans of Harran, which was an ancient city of strategic importance and is now a village in south eastern Turkey.

    Read more...
    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...nd-scriptures/167035-who-are-the-sabians.html



    Other related sources:
    https://iqsaweb.wordpress.com/tag/constitution-of-medina/
    http://www.techofheart.co/2007/01/sabians-example-of-pluralism-in-islam.html



    Does anyone have more information on the Sabian culture, or any information that would suggest the given information is not representing what Sabian culture is and consists of?

    If so, please share for learning purposes.
     
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i used to drive a saab.....
     
  3. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    How come you had me learning that SAAB refers to "Svenska Aeroplan Aktie Bolag"

    Swedish for... Swedish Airplane Corporation
    8abb1f60260fb019539b88dcfef73ffd[1].jpg


     
  4. butterfly#1

    butterfly#1 going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Same info I uncovered.
     
  5. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Did you find them to be somewhat of a "pagan" element, or a hodgepodge of elements?
     
  6. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Broham, Feb 15, 2015
    Broham, Mar 1, 2015
    What happened in the last two weeks that brought on this conversion away from the much Divinely alive Scriptures (Book of Psalms) that were present in February?

    Just curious as to how this was Divinely alive and then rejected all within less than a month.
     
  7. butterfly#1

    butterfly#1 going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think more pagan than hodgepodge. But, I know very little about them. If I'm reading correct, Broham was once a Sabian and can enlighten us all about it!
     
  8. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Here may be some more...

    They left behind many inscriptions in the monumental Musnad (Old South Arabian) alphabet, as well as numerous documents in the cursive Zabūr script. The Book of Job mentions the Sabaens for slaying his livestock and servants.

    Job 1:15
    And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

    Isa 43:3
    For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

    Isa 45:14
    Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.


    Ezekiel 23 offers a concept of glamor and bedazzlement, while Joel 3 refers to them in the capacity as "slavers/traders"

    Joe 3:8
    And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

    upload_2015-3-2_9-27-11.png

    Votive stele with Sabaean inscription addressed to the moon-god Almaqah, mentioning five South Arabian gods, two reigning sovereigns and two governors:

    Ammî'amar son of Ma'dîkarib dedicated to Almaqah Ra'suhumû. With 'Athtar, with Almaqah, with dhât-Himyam, with dhât-Ba'dân, with Waddum, with Karib'îl, with Sumhu'alî, with 'Ammîrayam and with Yadhrahmalik.” ​

    Alabaster, ca. 700 BC, Yemen, area of Ma'rib

    upload_2015-3-2_9-46-9.png

    It is believed that these Sabeans came from Southern Arabia in what now is Yemen. They were also called the Himyarites or the Yemenites. The Sabaeans were a Semitic people who, at an unknown date, entered Southern Arabia from the north. Sabaean civilization began as early as the 10th-12th century BC. The Sabaean rulers are mentioned in Assyrian annals of the late 8th and early 7th centuries BC, but Sabaean inscriptions are dated to the 6th century BC.

    upload_2015-3-2_10-12-48.png
    Ethiopia in relation to Yemen

    The religion of the Saba appears to be based on a national god called Almaqah (or Ilmuqah). Until recently Almaqah was considered to be a moon god, but the symbols of the bull's head and the vine motif that are associated with him are usually associated with a solar god.

    There is one and only one group that are the true Sabians, the Sabians of the Qu’ran, the Sabaeans of the Bahai, the Sabians from whom the Harranians stole the name, the Mandaeans. The Sabeans of South Arabia are a separate group and appear to have nothing to do with the Sabians (Mandaeans) or Sabaeans of Harran.

    Arab lexicographers explain the word sabi as being derived from the verb which, means “arise, apostatize” or “incline, turn away from the (true) religion” Thus giving the meaning “ those who take on a new religion other than their own”.

    So we have...
    Himyarites/Yemenites
    Mandaeans

    Still gathering information, as it seems there is or was a mix-matching of cultures.
     
  9. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "everything on the internet is not true"... including forum posts
     
  10. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS

    By Dr. Rafat Amari

    Ramadan has Pagan Roots in India and theMiddle East

    Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared.

    The Sabians, who were pagans in the Middle East, were identified with two groups, the Mandaeans and the Harranians. The Mandaeans lived in Iraq during the 2nd century A.D. As they continue to do today, they worshipped multiple gods, or “light personalities.” Their gods were classified under four categories: “first life,” “second life,” “third life” and “fourth life.” Old gods belong to the “first life” category. They summoned deities who, in turn, created “second life” deities, and so forth.

    The other group, considered as Sabians, were the Harranians. They worshipped Sin, the moon, as their main deity, but they also worshipped planets and other deities. The Sabians were in contact with Ahnaf, an Arabian group which Mohammed joined before claiming to be a prophet. Ahnaf sought knowledge by going to Northern Iraq, where there were many communities of Mandaeans. They also went to the city of Harran in the al-Jazirah district in northern Syria on the border between Syria, Iraq and Asia Minor.


    Read more...
    http://www.religionresearchinstitute.org/ramadan/roots.htm


    Will go into "Sin" probably in another thread, as it relates to "Musa/Moses" and "Mt. Horeb"
     
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