Black Spirituality Religion : What Is A Real Man? - posts moved from CHRISTIANITY STUDY GROUP THREAD

Comical but real. lets not be irrational with our condemnation when it comes to men and what they view as to what makes them feel like a man unless you treat women and man equally when it comes to dealing with them.

What I mean by that is, would you fight a woman that challenged your manhood;lest say by slapping you. If you say no, then welcome to the club. Because you would have demonstrated what most view as being a man.

My criteria for a man is that you have to wear men clothing and shoes and not wear lipstick..Now do you fit this criteria? If so, it isn't so comical after all.


Peace!


Though I don’t disagree with what you wrote. I do think it’s comical for others to determine what a “real man” is.

I was neither irrational nor did I condemned any one in my statement. And though I don’t wear dresses or paint my lips. These things would not stop me from being a man. Would I strike back a woman that had slapped me? No… Unless she had a knife or a gun. Yes I do treat most people the same. But must confess, I am more courteous toward women.

Peace out..
 
peace

Indeed! And as i read the highlighted portion of your post a scene from "dead presidents" popped up in my head. When the brother came home from the war and was eating with his parents and his moms asked him what did he do while he was there and one of the things he mentioned was 'some killing'. His father immediately started smiling and started serving him more food on his plate because to his father 'killing' had made his son a man. The military, not him, had made his son a REAL MAN!

Now, fast forward to the scene where the son can't find a job and while he was away his baby momma was gettin' hit off by the pimp with food and money. Now that he can't find a job, the baby momma is measuring what a REAL MAN is by what the pimp had been doing for her while her boyfriend was away. So when he can't find a job and starts drinking all the time all they do is fight until he decides to take his manhood back by going back to doing what he feels a REAL MAN should do. Provide for his family, even if it means robbing and killing, the very thing that his father applauded him for.

This is what happens all too often in this country. They take us away as soon as we graduate high school and accept us in the military. Train us to become REAL MEN to fight their wars, then when we return to the world, more often than not there is nothing for us to do but be emasculated by the women in our lives because when we were in the military everyday we had jobs to do, but here in the world we can't find any work, or any work sufficvient enough to pay the bills so some turn to alcohol and drugs and some may even get violent with their women after all else is exhausted.

This is purposely done by this government and they've been doing it since forever. The military commercials of them coming home and finding great jobs in communications and such look real nice, but they're not reality from a black standpoint. That Mcdonalds commercial of the big mac may look good to some, but when you are at micky d's and see it in person you may want to throw up. Some may actually get jobs because of their military knowedge, but it's a very very small percent. I mean, look around you at anyone you know with a military backround. i know many who have had to settle for something way beneath them just to survive and try to keep their family in tact. It's a shame how many of them lay in the bowery, or on bridges and on the side of the road begging for loose change everyday as we drive past them. This can not be by accident.

Dead President's painted a very good picture of blacks coming home from the military to face a silent war going on in our neighborhoods against them by the very one's who said they would turn them into REAL MEN!


The term Real Men is often used to Manipulate us into their vision as to what is right. and what is not. For whom? I ask.
 
Manhood can not be obtained or defined at the breast of a woman. Men don't understand women, if they do that they become. Women don't understand men, if they do that they become. The key is acceptance. Individuals know what they look for in the other but that does not necessarily define what a man or woman is, just what they desire to see in them. Women can only teach a man to be a gentleman, manhood is Only initiated by a man or the company of men. Usually women seek to domesticate men by making him safe and removing his rough edges and wildness but the man at his core is a wild man, a beast. Remove that remove the man. The story of "Iron John" by Robert Blye is a very good story, also for the Christian readers a book "Wild at Heart" by John Eldridge. We must remember that although some cultures lost the definitions of manhood others have not. Manhood was stripped from the Blackman in this country so we must go outside of us to watch examples of those who never lost it.


Let's try this again, and hopefully this will not come off as anything other than bible-supported discussion.

Papa, I saw your comment as the passage in Exodus indicated "Teach your children my ways." And with men, we know that the only way we can learn any idea of what manhood means is to be taught by fathers or father figures. Like the Native American proverb suggests:

Tell me, I may forget.
Show me, I may not remember.
Involve me, and I will understand.

This truth gives men security in their manhood, and women security concerning the choice of choosing men who have been properly taught by other men. Even men improperly taught by other men have a better chance of correcting his views. They can always go back and see which idea caused them to be off balance.

As to being taught by women, I do believe that women can teach it, but the limitation of this teaching is the teaching of preferences, meaning how it is preferred by a handful of women that you as a man should behave. This can be good, but may stand more of a chance of being dangerous for both men and women.

Examples: Sampson and his Philistine love interests, King Ahab and Jezebelle.

I do not discount the teachings of any woman who genuinely loves you, such as a mother or wife. I rather revere them for it. But without my father's teaching, I would not have a clue of how to properly revere them. The book of proverbs suggestively commands that I both heed the law of my father and love the teaching of my mother. The passage suggests that these teachings and commandments of both parental figures work in harmony. The book of proverbs also suggests that I should take the counsel of my wife above all others if she is a virtuous woman. The Bible also warns me against all ungodly counsel, be it from a man or a woman.

Where manhood is concerned, I can learn preferences of women and insights about women that I can take into consideration. But as far as the foundational behavior - that can only come from a man. Can the man teaching be faulty? Yes. And as we men mature, we can go back and fix what was wrong if we take the time during our lives to study the Word of God and accept godly counsel.

This is why I am able to say that not all suggestions as to what real men do said by both men and women are accurate and/or more helpful than harmful. I have to know what foundational things are right and what foundational things are wrong. This is what time with God and living experiences produces in men. Also godly counsel makes the process go faster. If I wanted to be a better husband, then I would talk to a happy couple while inviting them to lunch, but I would never talk to the wife alone, because as a man, I learned from other men that such is disrespectful to both spouses.

And when you as a man learn from other men how to be a man, there is a spiritual upbuilding that takes place that does not take place when you learn about manhood only from women.

I am grateful that I have a father. He is not perfect and was not perfect, but he taught me things that I completely understand, from spirit to heart, and my understanding has helped me weed out what is right in his teaching from what was wrong in his teaching. But without his teaching, I would not know where to begin.

Sisters, do not get me wrong. Your insights are valuable to me. But I jump at the chance to listen to my fellow male Christian elders to learn what I can from them, especially when it comes to the topics of life balance, fatherhood, business, and character. I've had that habit since childhood.

To say that only a man's teachings can build your character as a man is in no way sexist. A father's correction affects you much differently than a mother's correction. That's a product of God's design. And as a man-in-training, so a father's teaching impacts you more so than a mother's teaching. It's a spiritual core transfer. Imagine a dude with the spiritual core of a female. Imagine a lady with the spiritual core of a dude! Not a good look, either way!! Just saying!

I've also learned not to listen to what the majority of people say about being a real man or being a real woman. All anyone can define about being real is what's real to them. If you hear their expression, you decide whether or not to agree with them to the point that you make it part of your idea. You are responsible for that. For me, I cannot learn manhood from a woman and I do not believe that it is possible. I CAN learn from a woman how to be her friend, lover, husband, parental teammate, and brother. But the things she may love about me are the credit of my father figures only (God included).
 
The term Real Men is often used to Manipulate us into their vision as to what is right. and what is not. For whom? I ask.

And many use that term to do much in the way of manipulating us, and that causes bitterness within men, if they are not grounded with their sense of what manhood is for them. As a man who has experienced both being manipulated, having become bitter, and having purged that bitterness with God's help, I can tell you that as a man, you have no joy when women that you are trying to love are simply using the term "be a real man" to manipulate you into obeying their whims or to get you to bend according to their selfish impulses. Thankfully, there are women out there who are not manipulative and who seek to love you with all sincerity. I've tasted the bitter. Now, I desire the best of the truly sweet.
 
I have been wondering why despite the overwhelming evidence around us telling and showing us that We Afreecans, are amongst if not the first World People that gave birth and meaning to life yet we keep listening and wasting our energy on new kids on the block.
I feel great and no shame in saying that no holy book got anything holy in them to make them worthy of defining man except of course the incomplete minds that stole, plagiarized other sacred books to create these mind manipulating books we call holy books, good for confusion and propaganda.
Knowledge of God, the Highier power, Olichoke, Chineke, Oluwa, Jah is the begining of wisdom.
If christianity and Islam is truthful why hide their true origin? why hide their ugly bloody past? why hide the fact that these two religions grew not from any truth in them but from the violence and exploitation first World people suffered in hands of Yurugu?
Real Men define themselves from self knowledge not from imitators of men.

Enejoh,

Certainly, you make a great point. There is a tendancy among Christians to hide what looks ugly. But I've resolve not to, even as a Christian. I can tell you that I believe that the true origin of Christianity is just as the Bible states it.

Am I aware that a man who committed incest ordered the translation of the Hebrew language into English? Yes. Am I aware that blind bigots lie on its contents and use those lies to justify hatreds of colored people and express their hatreds through unholy violence? Yes. Am I aware that there are other scriptures written by men entrusted to my faith being held in places owned by men of another faith? Yes. Am I aware of the similarities of the New testament to similar historic religious beliefs historically belonging to our people? Yes. Am I aware of the Islamic and Christian crusades where Christians of those days took the approach written in the first five books of the old testament and where Muslims took a similar stance to partial teachings within their written creeds? Yes.

Has any of these awarenesses attributed to the shaking of my chosen faith? No.
Am I confused by any teaching within my chosen faith? No.
Am I living out the beliefs that I have chosen? Yes, to the degree I have learned.

Nothing in the past of the religion has any bearing on my faith. I don't operate in the spirit of the mistaken traditionalism, sexism, poverty mentality-producing, or self-hatred breeding ideas of the past that blinded Christians who never studied the Bible have taken. Someone once told me that instead of having a personality cult centered around Malcolm X, why not honor him by studying his ideas? Malcom X IS one of my heroes, even as a Christian. So is Jesus. But I'm not building a personality cult around Him. Instead, I'm spending my efforts trying to infuse the principles of my faith into my spirit in honor of Both Yeshua (Jesus, for those not paying attention) and God, not the evils of the past.

Why do I choose this way? One simple reason. The principles I am studying work in my life. If the set of principles isn't broken, why fix it? I'm not entering a world of self hatred because of it. The second highest principle and command of my faith is that I love my neighbor as much as I love myself. Am I responsible for those that didn't do it? Only if I had the opportunity to confront them and didn't, and that level of responsibility is partial at best. I'm not responsible for participating in the ugly bloody times of my past, because I didn't participate in them. I'm looking to fulfill my responsibilities each day in the present. To me, the past is a reference point, the present is an opportunity, and the future is filled with my hopes, dreams, passions, and goals.

I understand if you disagree. Such will not offend me, and I hope that in my stance, I have not offended you.
 

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