Black Spirituality Religion : What do you think of Christianity's explanation of race?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by John Williams, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. John Williams

    John Williams Banned MEMBER

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    Peace & Blessings to you,

    Earlier I was thinking about Christianity's claim that each race comes from one of the different sons of the Prophet Noah. Christians claim that Blacks are the descendants of Ham, Whites are the descendants of Shem, and Asians are the descendants of Japheth. Thinking about the claim, it doesn't make any sense that Noah & his wife were White and they had 3 sons, one Black, one White, and one Asian.

    What are your views on this claim from the Christians?
     
  2. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Its totally false ...


     
  3. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Christians can claim what they want, but what does the script state, that would be the focus.

    How can the origin of color start that late in time by Noah's sons, after humans were scripted to be on this earth thousands of years prior to their presence on earth!?

    If Ham started the 'black race' and Shem started the 'white race', then were the many, many, humans before they were present psychedelic or pink and purple polka dotted, or something? Are you sure that Christians profess that or, did the anti-Christians put out lies to support a supremacist position? What source are you basing that Noah and his wife were White? The movie with Russell Crowe [?] How can Shem put out 'the white race' and then be victims of 'anti-Semitism'? Why would White people be anti-Semitic if they are Semitic? That's like saying a White Supremacist harbors self-hate, and history surely reveals that a White Supremacist does not harbor self hate-- with all their hate groups they have formed to act against people of color.
     
  4. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    Peace!
     
  5. GatekeeperCrow

    GatekeeperCrow Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I prefer a more scientific explanation for the color of people's skin. Melanin or lack thereof based on environmental factors and evolution. That makes more sense than some claim that three individuals started the white, black, and asian races. I have never heard a christian claim this, but I have heard that whole thing about the Hamitic curse and how it supposedly curses black people as a race. I call BS on that.
     
  6. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Where does this notion of Noah and skin complexion come from?


    http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_4.htm

    People are still struggling with where "Humans" came from, not to mention the complexions that vary.

    Some theorize humans come from creatures that created the "Ape and Monkey", which comes from a rodent like mammal, which comes from a reptile like creature, etc.

    Some theorize humans come from one man and one woman, which came from the soil of the land and were molded and shaped by the elements.

    Some theorize humans come from another land altogether.

    Regardless, nothing is usually confirmed in absolute understanding when it deals with the mystery of history, especially when we are using stories and artifacts to create these understandings that are potentially far reaching and self-involved more than coming to the realization that we will not fully understand that which was buried in the chronicles of existence.

    Something else to add... time was not measured in ancient existence as it is in our modern gene-a-ration.

    To relate and compare by way of a present paradigm would be folly, as one can observe in the attempts to proclaim the best baseball player or basketball player regardless of era.

    Could one compare Hank Aaron with Ken Griffey Jr.?
    Could one compare Marques Haynes with Michael Jordan?

    Without being involved in some capacity with each era of existence, the folly is based on speculation and artifactual evidence that has to be interpreted by way of pattern analysis or structural relation.

    Science (research and study of discoveries) tries to assist by bridging the gaps of past and present.
    This is methodology, but not really accurate but more of a layered approach to sharing data that can be represented by equations and statistics.

    Basically, gathering "artifacts and data" in attempts to fill in assumptions and theories, with more appreciated assumptions and theories.

    Regardless, theology and research attempt to resolve their assumptions and theories differently.

    How long would it take for these "transformations" to occur?

    Some suggest millions of years, some suggest thousands... but the science and theology of both are mired in self-involvement as neither know but attempt to claim the enlightened role of a "Seer" or a great "Sage".

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    If anything, "Christianity" is usually something pulled out of context with the books some so called "Christians" tend to use to claim to be such, by way of Saul/Paul.

    But the "Bible" does not deal with "race" in the sense of complexion, but more so with "Nations" and branches of the descendent lines of reproducing.

    Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the descendent lines that would produce the "Nation of Yisrael".
    But one does not think of the "Nation of Abraham" or the "Nation of Isaac", but they are mentioned even if not in the detailed layout of Jacob, as Jacob became the more significant line in the Bible.

    Many tend to look for their connection to (or in) books, artifacts, and historical residue, and in doing so the existent persons that deal with common and current dilemmas will find themselves in history, not because they were actually there, but because they want to be there.
     
  7. Dreya

    Dreya Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    makes no sense whatever to me neither - and i never even heard anything bout it at church - far as i was told at school humans all started off as black but then the ones that left africa turned paler and paler the further north they went - all down to becoming mutated - never heard of this hamitic curse thing either - and it makes even less sense
     
  8. John Williams

    John Williams Banned MEMBER

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    Peace Sis. Dreya,

    The story of the Hamitic curse can be found in Gen. 9:20-29. If you ask your pastor does it mean something racial he or she will be able to talk to you about it. Gen. 9:20-29:

    "(20)And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: (21)And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. (22)And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. (23)And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. (24)And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. (25)And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (26)And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. (27)God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. (28)And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. (29)And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died."
     
  9. Dreya

    Dreya Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    k - im gonna ask and do some research on this stuff - must admit though not sure what got noah all so riled up about - hes the one laying there nakey drunk as a skunk - oughta be grateful somebody covered him up
     
  10. Clyde C Coger Jr

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    Dreya, stick with what you've been taught, its much closer to the truth than the hamitic curse thing.

    And the reason you haven't heard of it, is because its a very old myth taught by white folk for the justification of the slavery of our folk, as simple as that ... Correct Dreya, it makes less sense and shouldn't even be brought up, unless explained to be the falsehood that it was.

    Here's some excerpts of information to go along with your personal asking and research:


    THIS BIBLICAL STORY has been the single greatest justification for Black slavery for more than a thousand years. It is a strange justification indeed, for there is no reference in it to Blacks at all. And yet just about everyone, especially in the antebellum American South, understood that in this story God meant to curse black Africans with eternal slavery, the so-called Curse of Ham. As one proslavery author wrote in 1838, "The blacks were originally designed to vassalage by the Patriarch Noah."1
    http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i7641.html



    Belief in the curse of Ham didn't stop with the abolition of slavery. Throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s, the notion that the lowly status of black people was divinely ordained was repeated in sermons and speeches. Noah's curse re-emerged virulently in the 1950s and 1960s, when southern white Christians used it to justify racial segregation in the face of the civil rights movement. Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia read the text of the Noah story and curse into the Congressional Record as part of a filibuster against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, saying, "Noah saw fit to discriminate against Ham's descendents."

    A 1969 study of Lutheran Sunday school lessons and other educational materials found an implied justification of black slavery and segregation. James Baldwin, in The Fire Next Time (1964) wrote, "I knew, according to many Christians, I was a descendent of Ham who had been cursed, and I was therefore pre-destined to be a slave."

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns...ith-the-biblical-story-of-drunken-noah-part-2


    So as you can see, this so-called "Curse of Ham" was carried on for a while, and even caught James Baldwin off guard, smh.

    Well, thank God, its finally been put to rest as a
    myth that is untrue and improperly used to justify slavery.

    But here's the sad part, the Bible says that Canaan was curse, not Ham; so its a wonder the myth lasted as long as it did, when the Bible says otherwise. But here's the kicker, all the folk were black then, as you have been properly taught.

    Also, the Bible has many accounts of "white curses" but none concerning "black curses." You read correctly Dreya, the Bible speaks loudly of folk being turned white, but never turned black.


    I hope this helps you, Dreya.



     
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