Black Spirituality Religion : What did Jesus teach about public prayer?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by thePreacher, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    Matthew chapter 6 has Jesus teaching to pray in private:

    “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    But, also, John 11:41-42 has Jesus praying in public before resurrecting Lazarus from the dead. The bible even has him admitting, to God the Father, that he did it to be seen by others "that they believe that thou hast sent me".

    Therein is the dilemma faced in our day. With the bible offering arguments, not unreasonable ones, for both sides of the argument, both to pray publicly and to not pray publicly, how is one to know what is God's Will on the matter of whether public prayer in public schools should be allowed by the laws of the land?
     
  2. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's not a religious argument. If the US Condtitutiin establishes a separation between church and state then public schools are secular not sacred institutions.

    However, this does not prevent Bible study groups or student Prayer groups from forming on campus but they cannot receive funding even though they can conduct fundraising activities and they are allowed to pray openly.

    But a teacher in a public school is forbidden to lease students in prayer. This would be a violation of separation of state unless the school is a private institution which allows such activity.
     
  3. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... Such a vain attempt at creating duality in scripture, please, don't bring it here; this is a study forum and you've admitted and everyone else understands how you feel toward the Bible.

    To post here is counter-productive under the circumstances... Destee

    The answer to the question above is easy, and given within the context of this statement by you:"that they believe that thou hast sent me"


    Jesus/Yashua/Eashoa in Matthew 6 gave a manner of praying as asked by his disciples; and through his words to the Father, his sole and singular purpose for praying in public in John 11 is, once again: "that they believe that thou hast sent me"


    There is no dilemma as you would have some believe, but a dichotomy between the two scriptures... Any Bible student would agree with me for the purposes of studying.


    Peace In,


     
  4. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    Clyde, you are a moderator. That gives you some powers that others don't have. But, to avoid those powers being abused, the position carries with it the presumption that moderators hold themselves to a higher standard. If you will not honor my understanding on that, at least honor the scriptures themselves.

    Luke 12: 47-48And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    I am not a Christian, nor do I subscribe to the Christian belief that the bible is inerrant. Nevertheless, I value the teachings therein, which is why I quote from them frequently. I was careful to read kemetkind's rules for participating in this forum before I started this thread. There is nothing there which precludes someone who believes as I do from participating here. There is nothing there which requires participants to be Christians, nor does it require participants to accept all points of Christian doctrine.

    Please review kemetkind's rules:

    You follow me from thread to thread on this personal vendetta to discredit whatever I say. And previously I have not objected to this because doing so lies within the rules. But, now, I would request that you reconsider what you are doing and why.

    I created this thread out of a genuine desire to know Divine Will on this matter. I presented two views of what Jesus teaches on this not because I am trying to discredit the bible but because the bible itself presents two views on this matter. I was careful to quote verses from the bible itself to explain my indecision in this matter.
     
  5. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... Classic istlota, not addressing the substance of my posted words in response to the dilemma you cited in your initial post.

    Address what I said, brother; all else you've said is erroneous and irrelevant, since you created this thread to know divine will on this matter:

    As a Bible believer, I've spoken on His will, so, please explain to me what you've learned from my response.

    Lastly, its quite contradictory to hold onto your beliefs that the Bible is not inerrant, yet, you value the teachings and quote scripture often... Its Reductio ad absurdum...



    Peace In,


     
  6. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    You want me to blindly accept that your understanding of what the bible says is beyond dispute? That sounds more like Coger-ianity than Christ-ianity.

    What about the advice Jesus gave to 'search the scriptures'? What about the parable Jesus taught of tares being sown in by the enemy with the good seed? What about all the warnings Jesus gave about false teachers and wolves in sheep's clothing?


    You do not want me to follow Jesus. You want me to follow Clyde Coger.

    When I read the Sermon on the Mount, what I see is the wisest among men, Jesus, warning that religious folk had gotten a lot of what the scripture said all wrong. Which is why , so often, he had to say "ye have heard it has be said", followed by him then saying "but I say unto you".

    When I hear you telling me, as a bible believer, what the bible means, I envision being back there on the mount, hearing Jesus preach "Ye have heard Coger say" and then following that with "but I say unto you".
     
  7. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... Again, classic istlota presenting skewed points of argumentation rather than seeking consensus on the word of God. Presenting smoke and mirrors rather than considering the other person's point of view.

    Frankly, I could care less about what you accept relative to the Bible, because, you are that false teacher that sheep in wolf clothing, as previously mentioned by you.


    Peace In,


     
  8. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    We are, again, locked in pointless debate. Again, at least one of us is just not listening, at all, to the other.

    I responded to exactly what you said, because I am listening, to which you then accused me of skewing points of argumentation. That is not what I do. That is what Fox News does. Contrary to that approach, I may disagree, I may come right out and tell you you are dead wrong, but I do not do so by skewing points of argumentation because it is more important to me that I be correct than that I win anyone's perceived notion of a debate contest.

    You criticize my modus operandi because it does not seek consensus on the word of God. To which I would respond by asking is this or is this not a Christ-ian study forum? Did Jesus the Christ ever, even once, seek consensus on the Word of God?

    Jeremiah 1:8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

    But, of course, you or some other moderator has already, arrogantly, switched the thread to another forum despite the fact that I proved, by quoting the posted rules of that forum, that I was not in violation of them.

    I suppose that is one Way to skew points of argumentation. Ah, yes, of course, this is the infamous method of ensuring 'consensus' by forcing unwanted posters to "get out of the way when moderators are moderating".

    Are we both men or am I a child to be disciplined by a kindergarten teacher on a power trip?

    So be it.

    You have succeeded in distracting focus from what I say by drowning it out with the noise of yet another of your immature tantrums, Mr. Moderator.

    Since you are being so careful to ensure 'the OP' is obeying the rules, perhaps you might also review the rule about calling another member by other than his name, Mr. Moderator?

    Later today, when you are alone, away from the Internet, with just you and your God, you might distance self from ego long enough to honestly consider why you are _really_ conducting this crusade of yours:

    Matthew 23:13 "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."
     
  9. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Brother istlota ... i moved this thread, not Brother Clyde. He is not a Moderator.

    I saw your opening post, and it's an often used attempt at diminishing and disparaging Christianity / Bible.

    The contradictions within that book are repeatedly used by non-Christians to tear down Christianity.

    What you've done is not new, though your intent to find value in what you don't subscribe to, may be.

    The rules for the Study Groups have been updated since Brother Kemetkind, and you can find them here.

    I determined this thread to be in violation of the Study Groups, and moved it to where the discussion could live.

    I didn't have time to let you know this yesterday, i just moved it, and am coming back to it now.

    Again ... Brother Clyde did not move your thread, and he is not a Moderator.

    I will suggest though ... if it is divine will you seek, you may need to go to the divine, to get it.

    Love You!

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  10. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    I see.

    Very well. My apologies to Clyde for mistaking him for a moderator.

    And, my apologies to the Christians in that forum for not realizing that, on the question of what is or is not to be studied by them, what the bible actually says is irrelevant.

    You were right. I should not participate in that forum. It is a clear case of it being best to let the blind lead the blind into the ditch.
     
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