Black People : WHAT ARE THE BLACK CHURCHES/BLACK MOSQUES OBLIGATIONS TO THE AFRICAN COMMUNITY???

[Destee]

I agree with Brother Kente on this one ... the church has an obligation to the community because it is those in the community that financially sustain it. The fact that there is no evidence of their obligation ... jobs, homes, assistance, etc ... is a sign of where their heart really is.

Folk going to church, giving their money, and the only person who appears to be benefitting directly ... is the pastor and his/her Family.

This is wrong ... and evidence of just how wounded we are.

I don't mean to suggest that this is ALL churches ... but there is no widespread evidence to the contrary.

The problem with religion is, it's not geared toward making life better for black people, it's geared towards making death more acceptable to black people.

I agree with those before me ... that's deep.



Destee

 

[kente417mojo]

you are a certified hater of the black church.

You got that right, I am a certified hater of the black church. Thanks for the compliment.If we were all haters of the black church, maybe we'd make some progress, by putting all those millions of dollars into something that will actually payoff before we die. If the black churches are doing sooo much good, why are there so few black businesses in our communities? All the money these places take in and we're still poor as a people? Either they're corrupt or black people are just stupid when it comes to money. The black church is one of the main institutions for blacks to gather and hear words to better ourselves, and yet we still have poverty and no progress. People continue to pour their money into the hands of their minister, and yet things get worse. Common sense will tell you that something is wrong. The reason they keep doing it is because people sit and wait for things to change, when they keep repeating the same action. Yeah, like anything else, we can say "oh, there are good preachers, yada yada yada", but as a WHOLE (since I need to clarify that everyone on Earth is not bad, for some people) black churches are not serving their purpose. I'm not going to go back and forth with you in the same childish nature that you responded to me, but for the record, I don't have to clear up anything to you.

 

[j'hiah]

I agree Isaiah, I'm not familiar with mosques, so I decided not to open my mouth regarding them, but the Christian Churches are responsible for building the community more than anyone. If they aren't going to do that, what good are they?

true.

That's the reason why so many men don't mess with church, because they don't want to sit there and be preached to by a pimp. On the other hand, black women seem to sit there and eat it up.

generalizations as this statement slander those pastors who are not pimps,
churches which progress, and black women who know the difference.
You believe it's sad how they believe all black people look alike, but you're on the same page with them by believing that all churches are alike. lf you don't believe they are all alike, then don't make such silly generalizations.

[/QUOTE=kente417mojo] I think one of the things that stiffle progress for black people is the church, because once you start thinking that God and Jesus will take care of everything, you'll just sit on your butt and wait for them to do it.[/QUOTE]
Another generalization. What progress are you making by not making honorable mentions of those who, out of black churches, made significant changes for our people. Do you know any christian who believes Jesus will work their 9 to 5? You don't have to be a christian to not believe in your own abilities to do certain things. Man l am hoping you can clarify some things for me b/c l am trying to think you are not a hater of your people, the black church or any black movement. Mention a contribution the black church has made for us, don't just attack it.

That's the mindset of a lot of christians too. It's rediculous. I have never met a christian that was interested in the real progression of black people.

ln Mike Tyson's words, this is ludicrous. *picks a name out the air* Tavis Smiley doesn't come to your mind-he's christian. What's wrong with you?? Do you not think before you speak or what? sad. Did an usher slap dat head when u was ackin' bad back then and now you got a grudge? *passes kente a MLK fan so he can cool off *

Yeah, they acknowledge our struggles, but that's about the extent of it. They all seem to have that "I give up" attitude. That "I'll wait for the lord to save me" attitude.

Who gave up- MLK? Who? Abernathy? Al?
you mean to tell me those churches who gathered to march, vote, sit-in, bleed and die had to wait for God to glide from somewhere in the clouds first? O.K, you are sad and negligent. Wow, l guess l see too many black churches who not only encourage, but are "hands- on" when it comes to business and independent progress of our people. I'll wait for you to get in your right frame of mind.

Black people would not be struggling if these d@mn churches did their job. Pastor needs to stop looking at all the booty and start looking at what's going on in the community. On the flip-side, all the church goers need to stop trying to buy their way into heaven.

you are a certified hater of the black church. True, no movement of any religious or non-religious sort was perfect, but they all were not totally bad either. Show credit to those pastors and churches who are for your community and the bringing up of growth on all levels instead of finding every stone under the sun to throw at them.

wow.

 

[Isaiah]

true.


generalizations as this statement slander those pastors who are not pimps,
churches which progress, and black women who know the difference.
You believe it's sad how they believe all black people look alike, but you're on the same page with them by believing that all churches are alike. lf you don't believe they are all alike, then don't make such silly generalizations.

[/QUOTE=kente417mojo] I think one of the things that stiffle progress for black people is the church, because once you start thinking that God and Jesus will take care of everything, you'll just sit on your butt and wait for them to do it.

Another generalization. What progress are you making by not making honorable mentions of those who, out of black churches, made significant changes for our people. Do you know any christian who believes Jesus will work their 9 to 5? You don't have to be a christian to not believe in your own abilities to do certain things. Man l am hoping you can clarify some things for me b/c l am trying to think you are not a hater of your people, the black church or any black movement. Mention a contribution the black church has made for us, don't just attack it.
ln Mike Tyson's words, this is ludicrous. *picks a name out the air* Tavis Smiley doesn't come to your mind-he's christian. What's wrong with you?? Do you not think before you speak or what? sad. Did an usher slap dat head when u was ackin' bad back then and now you got a grudge? *passes kente a MLK fan so he can cool off *


Who gave up- MLK? Who? Abernathy? Al?
you mean to tell me those churches who gathered to march, vote, sit-in, bleed and die had to wait for God to glide from somewhere in the clouds first? O.K, you are sad and negligent. Wow, l guess l see too many black churches who not only encourage, but are "hands- on" when it comes to business and independent progress of our people. I'll wait for you to get in your right frame of mind.



you are a certified hater of the black church. True, no movement of any religious or non-religious sort was perfect, but they all were not totally bad either. Show credit to those pastors and churches who are for your community and the bringing up of growth on all levels instead of finding every stone under the sun to throw at them.

wow.[/QUOTE]


J'hiah, somewhere along the line we must put into perspective the history of THE BLACK CHURCH in America, and reckon with it's long, long, long history of doing nothing while African Americans were beaten, broiled, burned, and barbecued in those small southern towns, and place it in juxtaposition to its much shorter history of taking a stand beginning in the 1950's... Even then, an E.D. Nixon calculated that he must do an end around the prominent Black preachers in Montgomery, and snatch the young, charismatic, but naive young minister from Ebeneezer, because those "big" Black preachers history was one of keeping African Americans in their place in the scheme of White Supremacy, not of exhorting them to cripple and tear the monster down...

So the Black Church has gotten a great deal of mileage out of the the legacy of Dr. King, and those ministers he led into the fray for the first time 50 years ago, but what of the 150 years before that??? What were they doing??? Were they even about the business of developing business, of developing education and training for African Americans??? That would've sufficed considering our situation in the United States at that time...

Yes, we could sit here naming a great many wonderful African American preachers and ministers just on their preaching skill alone... We could name quite few who have been staunch advocates and preachers of liberation theology, and even some who ventured into politics, and did GREAT things for African Americans and all americans(the later great Adam Clayton Powell, jr), but these are a mere drop in the bucket next to all of the store front jacklegs who, out of the blue, anointed themselves God's servants...

My concern is not about hating the church, which are those hard-working, everyday African American people, but the pimping prophets and unholy apostles who throw up a shingle to hear the sound of jingle in their collection plates, and have little concern for their parishoners, and even less for the communities in which those parishoners live in...

J'hiah, you are familiar with Hezekiah Walker??? Well, I know some of the sisters who sing in his choir, and once I engaged them on an article I had read in the NY Daily News featuring his newly aquired mansion... I boldly asked them how they were doing financially, considering how their singing had been instrumental in helping their minister aquire that mansion... They told me flat out that he didn't pay them a dime, and that they were happy simply to sing in his choir, wear those custom robes, and to go on those all-expenses paid road trips with the brother(smile!)

Now, you see, that is part of the problem, as previously mentioned... Our failure to challenge these guys to stand and deliver for the community... Hezekiah Walker can't even sing... He needs those beautiful women in that choir to remain world famous, and they are not demanding anything in exchange for what they are giving to him... It is the same all over the country, in small towns and in big cities, African people fail to understand our own value, and thus get so very little in return for all of the energy and talent we expend... The ONE institution which should serve our entire community does not, and it is our fault that it does not... All it requires is a simple demand, because as Frederick Douglass said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand..." YOU, J'hiah, wont demand from your preacher what is due your community, and that is what we are protesting, your silence...

Yes, we could say a lot of sweet wonderful things about the church, but people like you are fulfilling that role already, and what has it gotten us???(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

 

[Radical Faith]

Speaking as a Christian

Yes the church is responsible for the community. In fact the community is a reflection of the church. The church is not a building for worship service. The true meaning of church is those who are called the to serve God. Like the early church of Christ in their humble beginnings it consisted of disciples and apostles. That still applies today. The church has a moral obligation to the community not because of financial support it receives but by order of Jesus Christ. In every church White, Black, Hispanic, whatever there is a 20/80 ratio of it's members that are actually do the work of the whole church. In other words only 20 percent of the entire church is obedient. Only 20 percent tithe their 10 percent, are involved in ministry and go out into the community and profess the love of Christ by word and example. Everyone else is coming to church to hear a good sermon or to hear some good singing or out of tradition or to find a suitable mate or just to tell people I go to church. Imagine if your car only performed 20 percent of the time or if you were at work and 20 percent of the employees did all the work and the rest just goofed off yet and still get paid on time. That kind of hits home when you think about. This is why our communities are the way they are. Christianity is not a spectator sport. In order to truly get fulfilled one must get involved. In my church I am involved in our prison ministry,the potter's house ministry(feeding the homeless) nursing home ministry, inasmuch ministry(this is where we go to the public housing projects and give away bags of groceries). I am a Sunday school teacher and the secretary of our mens ministry. I also sing in the men's choir. I envision myself working more with children and teenagers. This is a ministry that is in the work that I will start. I don't say these things to brag on myself. Being involved in ministries also ministers to those who participates in the ministry not just those who needs are being ministered to. I'm quite moved sometimes by the people I come in contact with. This is an age of apostasy. You will hear me say this more and more. God is re-engineering or restructuring or in today's terms downsizing his church. God is trimming the fat or pruning back the vine or dropping the dead weight. Just as in Judges 7 God using a handful of truly devoted saints to do the the kingdom work. The church goes through periods of falling away and revival much like the children of Israel. Again I say the community should reflect the church and not the other way around...


Peace............