Black Spirituality Religion : Was there Really an EXODUS?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by info-moetry, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    What you have in this new charge of Black and Semitism against Blacks is the most pathetic of all tragedies, a scapegoat looking for a scapegoat. Because of Black Americans' reading or misreading of the Bible, we have always had a sentimental attachment to Jewish people and, to a large extent, most of us still do. During slavery, we wanted to attach ourselves to a people who had escaped from bondage. So, the Exodus story in the Bible became more real to us than to the Jewish people. Right now, in a large number of Black Baptist churches, you can get a large number of the congregation to shed real tears of sympathy over the three Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace. Most of them dare not question whether this is folklore or fact.


    Dr. John Henrik Clark
     
  2. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    peace

    You can check out the books:


    "The Folklore in the Old Testament" by James Fraser

    "Hebrew Myths" by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai


    as suggested reading by Dr. john Henrik Clarke
     
  3. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    peace


    All people tell STORIES to make themselves feel good, but it does not mean it happened!

    The STORY of CAIN AND ABEL is an old Afrikan STORY, some say it was taken from Wsr and his brother Set.

    There are many FLOOD STORIES, there was NO NOAH, check the Gilgamesh Epic!

    An EXODUS actually happened, but not the way it is portrayed in the By-bill!


    70 or so "hebrews" came into Afrika and they were told they would have to live by Afrikan law!

    The Pharoah at the time said "those of you who wish to obey afrikan law may stay and those of you who wish to go, may go"....All of the "hebrews" did not leave because some of them said they could live by afrikan law, but some of them did leave and from those that left, they turned that into what you know today as THE EXODUS.....& they walked out the same way they walked in, THERE WAS NO ONE BY THE NAME OF MOSES INVOLVED IN ANY WAY SHAPE, OR FORM!

    There was not even a hundred or more "hebrews" that came in, so how could there have been THOUSANDS that left or EXITED? I don't even want to get into how they crossed the water, or how we thought that someone made it "part".....
     
  4. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have one more.

    The JEWISH STUDY BIBLE (which I finally purchased today).

    So lets assume that there was a Biblical "Moses" and there was an Exodus. According to JEWISH tradition, "Moses" was NOT a monotheist.

    The operative word is monolatry but here is a ref. from the wiki.

    The highest claim to be made for Moses is that he was, rather than a monotheist, a monolatrist. ... The attribution of fully developed monotheism to Moses is certainly going beyond the evidence."[4]

    As absolute monotheism took over from monolatry in Israel, those who had originally been in the pantheon of the gods were demoted to the status of angels.[5]

    The exclusivity of the relationship between Yahweh and Israel is an important element in Israel's oldest religious tradition. However, it is not necessary to ascribe the present formulation of the commandment ["you shall have no other gods before me"] to a very early stage of the tradition, nor is it advantageous to interpret the commandment as if it inculcated monotheism. The commandment technically enjoins monolatry, but it can be understood within a henotheistic religious system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolatrism

    I find it interesting the number 70 you mentioned because the JSB mentions something about 70 different interpretations all of which are valid because there are "70 faces to the Torah".
     
  5. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    CRITICISMS OF OLD TESTAMENT HISTORY





    Literary and Historical Criticism of the Pentateuch
    By Professor William Stiebing, "Not out of the Desert"


    Traditionally, the Pentateuch the Books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy have been credited to Moses. This attribution would make the Exodus narrative an eyewitness account by the person in the best position to know all of the facts. But careful study of the Pentateuch has gradually made scholars aware of many inconsistencies, duplications, contradictions, and differences in style and vocabulary. This evidence, in turn, has raised the question of whether all of this material could have been written by the same person.
    In Exodus 6:2-3, for example, God tells Moses that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had known Him as El Shaddai (God Almighty), not Yahweh, His true name. Yet the patriarchs refer to God as Yahweh a number of times in Genesis, and God Himself is depicted as revealing His name Yahweh to Abraham (Genesis 15:7) and to Jacob (Genesis 28:13).

    Other discrepancies abound even in the account of the Exodus, the portion of Israels early history that Moses should have known intimately. According to Exodus 3:1 and 18:1, Moses father-in-law was named Jethro, but in Numbers 10:29 (as well as in Judges 4:11) he is called Hobab. Numbers 21 describes a route that the Israelites followed from Mount Hor into Canaan that differs from the one described in Numbers 33. Moses brother Aaron died and was buried at Mount Hor, according to Numbers 20:22-29, 33:38, and Deuteronomy 32:50. But Deuteronomy 10:6 claims that Aaron died and was buried at Moserah (also known as Moseroth), a place that Numbers 33:30-37 places six stages before Mount Hor in the Israelites itinerary.

    There are also differences among the various accounts of the laws that God is supposed to have given Moses. According to Exodus 20:24, sacrifices are to be offered on altars built in every place God chooses to have His name remembered. Yet Deuteronomy 12:1-14 states that there shall be only one sanctuary of God and only there should sacrifices be performed. Exodus 21:2-7 specifies that male Hebrew slaves are to be freed after six years of service, but that female Hebrew slaves are not entitled to such release. On the other hand, Deuteronomy 15:12 states that both male and female Hebrew slaves are to be released after six years.

    Indeed, many passages in the Pentateuch clearly were written long after Moses. As early as the second century A.D. doubts arose over the Pentateuchs reference to Moses death.4 The medieval rabbi Isaac ibn Yashush (died 1056) recognized that Moses could not have described Edomite kings as reigning before any king reigned over the Israelites (Genesis 36:31), since in Moses time there was no way of knowing that Israel would one day have a king. And Abraham ibn Ezra (1089-1164) noticed that Genesis 12:6 (and the Canaanites were then in the land) must have been written when the Canaanites no longer represented a major portion of Palestines population. Ibn Ezra also saw a problem with Deuteronomy 1:1, which refers to the territory east of the Jordan as the other side of the Jordan. Obviously, this passage was written from the perspective of someone on the western side of the Jordan (Canaan)yet Moses died east of the Jordan, having never reached Canaan.


    http://www.skeptically.org/oldtestament/id6.html
     
  6. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    THE EXODUS CONTROVERSY

    This article was published in the Spring 2003 issue of Bible and Spade.

    It seems that every year, especially around the spring Passover season when Jews and many Christians commemorate Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, newspapers and magazines publish articles questioning the validity of the Biblical account of the Exodus.

    In 2001, for example, The Los Angeles Times ran a front-page story reporting that a liberal rabbi in the Los Angeles area caused quite a stir when he shocked his congregation by stating he had his doubts that the Exodus ever took place. “The truth is,” explained Rabbi David Wolpe,

    that virtually every modern archaeologist who has investigated the story of the Exodus, with very few exceptions, agrees that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all (Watanabe 2001).

    Perhaps you have read such articles and wondered whether you can believe the Bible. After almost 200 years of archaeological research in Egypt and Israel, why do so many challenge the Exodus account? The stakes are not small, as the critics well know. If the narrative of the Exodus is not factual, then the trustworthiness of Biblical revelation is indeed seriously undermined. Therefore it is essential that our evaluation of the evidence be accurate and fair.



    ...>>>COMPLETE ARTICLE HERE: http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/08/09/The-Exodus-Controversy.aspx#Article
     
  7. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Biblical Archaeology:
    Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt



    Merneptah Stele

    One of the most important discoveries that relate to the time of the Exodus is the Merneptah stele which dates to about 1210 BC. Merneptah, the king of Egypt, boasts that he has destroyed his enemies in Canaan. He states: Plundered is the Canaan with every evil; Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer; Yanoam is made as that which does not exist; Israel is laid waste, his seed is not; (ANET 1969, 378).The word "Israel" here is written in Egyptian with the determinative for people rather than land (ANET 1969, 378 note 18)....

    Execration Texts

    There are two types of execration texts from the 12th Dynasty of Egypt. The oldest type are inscribed red clay bowls that date to the reign of Sesostris III (1878-1842 BC)....

    Inscription of Khu-Sebek, Called Djaa
    A stele found at Abydos tells about an Asiatic campaign by Sen-Usert III (1880-1840 BC) which says: His majesty proceeded northward to overthrow the Asiatics. His majesty reached a foreign country of which the name was Sekmem. His majesty took the right direction in proceeding to the Residence of life, prosperity, and health. Then Sekmem fell, together with the wretched Retenu (ANET 1969, 230b).Some scholars think "Sekmem" is probably Shechem which is located in a pass between Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim. Shechem controlled an important trade route and the fertile valley to the East. It seems that Shechem was a very powerful and important city at the time of the patriarchs.....

    The Story of Sinuhe

    The story of Sinuhe also gives us a background picture about Syria-Palestine life in the Middle Bronze Age which is most likely the patriarchal period. Sinuhe flees Egypt on hearing of the death of King Amenemhet I (1960 BC) and becomes an exile like Moses. His path of flight may have been similar to the Exodus, but his destination was Byblos.




    COMPLETE ARTICLE HERE:
    http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm
     
  8. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    ....Enslaved in Egypt

    Next, we do find a number of writings which clearly indicate a sizeable number of Syro-Palestinian slaves in Egypt around the 1300s BC. --James Hoffmeier of Wheaton College points out that after the "Hyksos" dynasty in Egypt was overthrown, "Egypt was teeming with Semitic-speaking peoples," whom the Egyptians then treated as prisoners of war and slaves. This turn-around of the Hebrews starting out as free inhabitants but becoming enslaved in Egypt, parallels with the biblical account. Hoffmeier adds that the presence of Israelites among these Semitic slaves is very likely.

    (Ref: "Is The Bible True?", Jeffery Sheler, Harper/Zondervan, 1999 p.79)

    As a way of "bragging" about their slaves, there are 18th dynasty wall-painting insciptions in Egyptian tombs which show such Semitic slaves from Canaan (the home-land of the Hebrews) making bricks out of mud and straw, with stick-wielding taskmasters forcing them to work --and the biblical account states the very same thing: The Hebrews labored as slaves in the making of "bricks" out of mud and straw. Such inscriptions are found in the tomb of Rekhmire, who was the vizier of pharaoh Thutmose III in the mid-1400s BC. --Professor Hoffmeier adds, "It is worth noting, that the practice of using forced labor for building projects is only documented for the period 1450 to 1200, the very time most biblical historians place the Israelites in Egypt."

    --Thus, it so happens that at the time the Hebrews would have been enslaved, there are actually Egyptian inscriptions to verify the fact.
    (ref. "Did the Exodus Never Happen?" by K.D.Miller, Christianity Today, Sept.7, 1998, p.48)

    Possibly much more significant is a line from the "Leiden Papyrus 348," which dates from the time of Ramesses II. It has orders that food be given to "the Apiru who are dragging stones to the great pylon" which was part of some unspecified construction.

    (ref: J.K.Hoffmeier, Israel in Egypt, New York/Oxford U.Press, 1997, p.112-114)

    --The word "Apiru" meant a "state-less" individual, and many scholars think it was used to refer to the Hebrews --and indeed, Dr. Frank Moore Cross of Harvard University directly says that "the term 'Apiru' is the origin of the term Hebrew."

    --The Apiru (Hebrews) were being employed as slaves in Egypt.
    (ref: "The Exodus Revealed," Docu-Video, Discovery Media Prod., 2002)
    As for the numbers of these slaves in Egypt, it is not precisely known, however --for instance-- Pharaoh Thutmose III is reported to have brought back about 90,000 prisoners returned from a single campaign in Canaan. Then down through the decades there were many such campaigns, and there were also probably hundreds of thousands of prisoners of war (many of whom had been civilians) who were then pressed into slavery in Egypt. During the Roman Empire, 30% of the Roman population was slaves, and perhaps about 16% of the Egyptian population was slaves. The population of Egypt at the time of Israel's exodus is estimated to have been about 7.5 million --so if 18% of the Egyptian population was slaves at that time of the exodus, then there were perhaps about 1,350,000 slaves in Egypt.

    The book of Exodus states that 600,000 Israelite adult males (over the age of 11) left Egypt, and if women are added to that number --bringing the Hebrew population to perhaps 1.2 million--, then these numbers are within tolerances of what is possible at the time ...and remember, that not all of the Israelites would have been counted as slaves....

    http://worldview3.50webs.com/exodus.html
     
  9. rapunzal24

    rapunzal24 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The story of the Exodus in the Bible is about us, Black people. There are many scriptures that back this up and explain who the true Israelites and the true Edomites are. Believe it or not, a lot of the people who call themselves Jews now know this.
     
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