Black Spirituality Religion : Understanding the Biblical naming Scheme:

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Music Producer, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Understanding the Biblical naming Scheme:

    You have to be careful in examining names in the Torah. To truly understand it you have to have an adverse knowledge in all the languages during the time and of the surrounding area. One name in Hebrew or Egyptian would have a literal meaning. For example: “Tatenen” has the literal meaning “father of gods” and “the god of the rising earth”. Thus that exact same name would be pronounced and even spelled completely different in another language because of its syntax meaning.

    To spell “Tatenen” in say Hebrew first we pick a syntax meaning “the god of the rising earth”. Now we have to take the syntax meaning and make it a name “the god of the rising earth”, due to the fact that I can’t display the actual Hebrew fonts I will use the English equivalency.

    Egyptian name, “Tatenen” syntax meaning “the god of the rising earth”.
    Hebrew name is none, thus you use the syntax meaning witch in Hebrew would be
    “h alhym m h alh harz”, converting this to a name they usually use two or three letters from the main identifying words. Which would be “god rising earth” which leads to “alhym alh harz”. To make this a Hebrew name “alhyalhhar”.

    Thus the Egyptian name “Tatenen” would be “Alhyalhar” in Hebrew.

    This is the way several names have been placed in the Bible.

    Thus the name “Mahalath” having the Hebrew meaning “dubious or liar” which is also found in the headings of Psalms 53 and 81 and is found in 2Chr 11:18 has a syntax meaning in another language.

    Thus the name “Bashemath” which in the Hebrew is “Basmath” also has a syntax meaning. In Hebrew the syntax is “sweet smelling”. Thus this passage:

    Gen:26:34: And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite:

    Can be legitimately translated as:

    Gen:26:34: And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and the sweet smelling daughter of Elon the Hittite:

    We see now that the name Bashemath is not a name but is actually a description of Mahalath that gives the reader a more visual representation of the person. We see Mahalath as a woman that may fib a lot and dressed in the latest fashions and wore a lot of perfume.

    The same method of describing ones personality and persona is also utilized in the name Jezebel.

    Due to this naming scheme that is prolific within the Old Testament that not only names an individual but also takes that same individual to describe personality the Bible appears to change that same persons name. Another clear example of this can be seen in these passages:

    Isa:7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
    English Bible:
    Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, the young woman is with child, and she will bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-El.


    Isa:8:3: And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz.

    As you can see Isaiah is referring to the exact same child but refers to the child with two different names. The names are being used to describe personality traits of the child to be born.

    Immanuel : Maher-shalal-hash-baz
    GOD is with us : to plunder, pillage and destroy with lightening speeds.

    See how referring to the same child with names that have syntax meaning allows the author to reveal hidden information or details about an individual. The same scheme is also used in the Torah.

    Many people have mistaken this for being proof that the Bible is faulty in some way. But it is not at all the case; it can simply be attributed to an ancient form of writing style but you have to be familiar with the style before you can see it. And you have to be able to understand the meaning of the names.
     
  2. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Tatenen (Tathenen, Tanen, Tjanen): Ptah in an aspect of an earth god, symbolizing the emergence of the fertile Nile silt from the receding waters of the inundation. His name means "exalted earth," and he was originally an independent deity at Memphis. Tatenen is represented as an anthropomorphic ally with a distinct crown comprised of two plumes upon rams' horns. As a god of vegetation he can be painted with a green face and limbs. However, by the Old Kingdom he has become amalgamated with the god Ptah and is viewed as a manifestation of Ptah as creator-god, thus Ptah-Tatenen.

    As his name "The Risen Land" indicates, Tatenen was the earth of the beginning, the primeval hill, which had risen out of the primeval waters. And every year he emerged from the waters of the inundation ready to bear fruit and nourish mankind.

    Tatenen...from whom have proceeded all things in the shape of food and viands, divine offers, all good things. (C. J. Bleeker: Historia Religionum I, p.68)

    He was venerated at Memphis and came to be identified with Ptah. Ramses II called him "father of the gods," and saw himself as his successor, as the ruler of the earth.

    Utterance of the divine king, Lord of the Two Lands, lord of the form of Khepri, in whose limbs is Re, who came forth from Re, whom Ptah-Tatenen begat, King Ramses II, given life; to his father, from whom he came forth, Tatenen, father of the gods. (J.H. Breasted: Ancient Records of Egypt, Part Three, § 411)

    Similar to the earth-god Geb, he was a source of materials for the artisans whose patron god was Ptah.

    Thou art gold, thine is the silver, Keb has opened for thee that which is in him, Tatenen has given to thee his things. (J.H. Breasted: Ancient Records of Egypt, Part Two, § 91)

    As the earth-god he received the deceased and helped him on his way.

    The arms of Tatenen are what receive me and raise me up. (Carol Andrews: The Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, p.180)

    Khnum, the creator who formed all on his potter's wheel, is identified with Tatenen in the Great Hymn of Khnum.

    ...for the lord of the wheel is their father too, Tatenen who made all that is on their soil. (M. Lichtheim: Ancient Egyptian Literature, Vol.3, p.113

    And he is depicted as a seated bearded man holding a flail, wearing a headdress consisting of ram's horns and two feathers.
     
  3. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In the Old Testament, Basemath (בָּשְׂמַת, "sweet smelling") is the name of three women.

    In Genesis 26:34, Basemath is the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and one of the three wives of Esau.

    In Genesis 36:2 she is called "Adah," and is the only one of Esau's wives of whom his father Isaac approved, as the other two were both Canaanites.

    In Genesis 36:3-4,10,13 and 17, Basemath is the daughter of Ishmael and another of the three wives of Esau.

    In Genesis 28:9 she is called "Mahalath," meaning "stringed instrument." Mahalath is also the name of two women. She is the daughter of Ishmael and a wife of Esau. (Some authorities suggest she is the same person as Basemath in Genesis 36:3-4.)

    In 1 Chronicles 11:18, Mahalath is a daughter of Jerimoth.

    In 1 Kings 4:15, Basemath is a daughter of Solomon and wife of Ahimaaz.

    (Btw, in the Hebrew language the name "Basemath" means, "sweet smelling." It is incorrect to insert the meaning of a name when translating a verse containing that name...)
     
  4. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Re: Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

    Here is Isaiah 7:1-17, under the heading, Isaiah Offers Hope to King Ahaz. The famous verse in question is bolded:

    "Ahaz, the son of Jotham and the grandson of Uzziah, was king of Judah when King Rezin of Syria and King Pekah, son of Remaliah of Israel went to attack Jerusalem. But they were not able to do what they had planned. When the news reached the royal palace that Syria had joined forces with Israel, King Ahaz and everyone in Judah were so terrified that they shook like trees in a windstorm. The the Lord said to me:

    'Take your son Shearjashub and go see King Ahaz. You will find him on the road near the clothmakers' shops at the end of the canal that brings water from the upper pool. Tell Ahaz to stop worrying. There's no need for him to be afrain of King Rezin and King Pekah. They are very angry, but they are nothing more than a dying fire. Ahaz doen't need to fear their evil threats to invade and defeat Judah and Jerusalem - and to let the son of Tabeel be king in his place. I, the Lord, promise that this will never happen.

    Damascus is just the capital of Syria, and King Rezin rules only in Damascus. Samaria is just the capital of Israel, and King Pekah rules only in Samaria. But in less that sixty-five years, Israel will be destroyed. And if Ahaz and his officials don't trust me, they will be defeated.

    Once again the Lord God spoke to King Ahaz. This time He said, 'Ask me for proof that my promise will come true. Ask for something to happen deep in the world of the dead or high in the Heavens above.' "No Lord," Ahaz anwered. "I won't test you!" Then I said:

    'Listen, every one of you in the royal family of David. You have already tried my patience. Now you are trying God's patience by refusing to ask for proof. But the Lord will still give you proof. A virgin is pregnant; she will have a son and will name him Immanuel. Even before the boy is old enough to know how to choose between right and wrong, he will eat yogurt and honey, and the countries of the two kings you fear will be destroyed.

    But the Lord will make more trouble for your people and your kingdom than any of you have known since Israel broke away from Judah. He will even bring the king of Assyria to attack you."

    (Isaiah 7-17, KJV, Contemporary English Version)

    Re: the word, "virgin":

    In this context the difficult Hebrew word did not imply a "virgin birth." However, in the Greek translation - ca. 200 BC and used by the early Christians - the word "parthenos" had a double meaning. While the translator took it to mean "young woman," Matthew understood it to mean "virgin," and quoted the passage (Matthew 1:23) because it was the appropriate description of Mary, mother of Jesus...
     
  5. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Several years ago I read that the word “virgin” in the New Testament was mistranslated from a Hellenistic Greek word or phrase. The correct translation was said to be, “a woman of marrying age” (or something similar)…not the “haven’t had sex” definition. I think the Greek word/phrase began with the letter “b” or the equivalent. I wondered how such an error could occur, since Hellenistic Greek is so well understood. I also wondered if the word “virgin” is correctly translated in the Old Testament.

    There are two Hebrew words usually translated “virgin” in English. “Bethulah” means “virgin” in the sense that we understand it. It was used in Isaiah 62:5. “Almah” (the word used in Isaiah 7:14) simply means a young woman. Although it is sometimes used in the sense of a sexually pure woman, this is not its exclusive usage. The context will usually point out the correct usage.

    The confusion arose when the Greek Septuagint used the Greek word “parthenos” to translate Isaiah 7:14. In the Greek language this word does denote a sexually pure woman, and was the inspiration for the gospel myth of the “virgin birth.”

    A look at the context of Isaiah 7:14 reveals that the woman Isaiah was referring to was probably already pregnant, thus pointing out which sense of the word “almah” was intended. In any case, the point of Isaiah’s prophecy was that before the child reached the age of accountability, both Israel and Syria would be desolated (a prophecy that was only partially fulfilled, by the way).

    The use of the word “virgin” is not germane in Isaiah’s prophecy. The “sign” was the child, not a miraculous conception. In short, Isaiah’s “sign” was fulfilled in its own context, hundreds of years before anyone thought to apply it in a different sense...

    The basic details are given in Ian Wilson’s Jesus The Evidence. Although this is an unlikely source, The Selfish Gene (1989 edition) by Richard Dawkins gives the same basic story. He states: “the point is in fact well known to Biblical scholars, and not disputed by them.” This is what seems to have happened:

    The word actually used in Hebrew Scriptures is “almah,” meaning, “young woman.” The Hebrew word which could have been used – but wasn’t – is “bethulah,” which means “virgin.” The Septuagint is a version of the Old Testament prepared in the 3rd century BC by Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek for the Greek-speaking Jewish community. In translating for the Septuagint, the word “almah” was translated as “parthenos,” the Greek word for virgin.

    Thusly, Isaiah’s prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an “almah” (young woman), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a “parthenos” (Gk. “virgin”).

    It appears that Matthew’s Gospel attempts to justify Jesus’ divine parentage by claiming fulfillment of a prophecy that was never actually made…
     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I disagree, the original Hebrew has no viols, spaces, nor grammatical syntax instructions, it is one continues string of consonants. Thus it becomes the choice of the reader as to how to understand or pronounce the passage.

    Neither you nor I can set here and say for an absolute certainty rather or not a name should be interpreted as such or should it be interpreted as a saying without the original Egyptian text that would contain the naming rings. Only then will we know for an absolute certainty.

    My point is clearer in the Immanuel example. All I am saying is it is not uncommon to find mutable names given to one person in the Bible. Through the multiple naming schemes the author is able to describe the individual with more detail.

    Just like the name Adam. I could go on and on and on showing examples of using the meaning of a name instead of the name itself and the passage would continue to be an unchanged.
     
  7. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    When the Servants of Jesus inserted the word “Virgin” into the text all they were doing was making a religious statement. The same way they were doing when they inserted the word “Son” in the last passage of Psalms 2. That’s why I call the Old Testament a book of Servants of Jesus, some of their religious beliefs and ideals manifested into the translation.
     
  8. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In the Hebrew language the name "Immanuel" means "God is with us," and the name "Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz" means, "suddenly attacked, quickly taken."
     
  9. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Psalms 2:12 begins: "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and ye perish from the way..."

    The concordance says "Kiss the Son" means "receive instruction." In the Vulgate the phrase translates, "worship purely."
     
  10. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In the Hebrew script the first word in Psalsm 2:12 is "Kissing". The Hebrew “rb” letters that is used to end words with “ing” was taken by Servants of Jesus and translated as “Son”. The true Hebrew letters that are translated as “Son” would be this “Nb”.

    As I said, “The Old Testament is a book translated by Servants of Jesus, thus they reflected their own ideality within the translation.
     
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