Science and Technology : "U.S. has the worst education system known to Science"

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by skuderjaymes, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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  2. Each1teach1

    Each1teach1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Michios arrogant but correct statement about the system was on point but the reason it would collapse is not because the H1b1 is taken away but because the govt has long stepped back the initiative of creating home grown intelligence. They no longer teach how to think and do for self in school but continually create and produce a worker class. Michio will sit up there and talk that crap about forgetting google and silicon valley all the while forgetting that AMERICANs created it!! Not foreigners and NONE of them had post graduate degrees!! In fact two Jobs and Gates were college drop outs!
     
  3. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As Grace Lee Boggs reminds us: (Ms Boggs is a former school teacher etc. and a lifetime activist--who is in her nineties):

    The U. S. public schools were/ or are becoming a pain, i. e., because they teach obsolete skills, so they aren't always that relevant to anybody helping and praying to land a job/paying decent wages etc., in our this techology obsessed present day reality...
     
  4. umbrarchist

    umbrarchist Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have been suggesting this story to teachers for a while.

    Omnilingual (1957) by H. Beam Piper
    http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/03/scientific-language-h-beam-pipers-qomnilingualq
    http://www.feedbooks.com/book/308/omnilingual
    http://librivox.org/omnilingual-by-h-beam-piper/

    I finally got one to respond. He is in Australia.

    I find it curious how he emphasizes CLASSROOM rather than SCIENCE. And then thinks it needs a teaching guide. Hugo Gernsback was emphasizing science fiction for science education 80 years ago.

    Editorial, Science Fiction Week (1930). In Gary Westfahl, Hugo Gernsback and the Century of Science Fiction (2007), 166.

    http://rollingsreliable.com/tag/vegetarian/
     
  5. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    [soapbox]

    Listen.. Science/Technology and Nationalism cannot coexist. Especially not American Nationalism. Silicon Valley is far more than Apple Computer.. and Microsoft is not in Silicon Valley.. Their are a ton of technology companies that create products and services and technologies that most consumers have no direct knowledge of.. Cisco Systems is arguably the most important company in Silicon Valley.. and Cisco.. on the technology side.. is a mix of people from all over the world.. The executive/sales side however is lily white.. and if you ask about it, they'll tell you quickly that the Sales side is a social job and Sales people/executives should look like the customer. Which of course is just a way of keeping white control.. and White control is the only American thing about Silicon Valley. Believe me.. Dr. Kaku is not being arrogant when he says that the American Academy.. and American Industry would collapse without so-called "Foreigners". And that is an absolute fact. And also believe me when I say that those people in Silicon valley would not defend and promote you as adamantly and patriotically as you are defending them.. Not on the basis of your nationality.. or your ethnicity.

    I worked as an Engineer in one of silicon Valley's largest companies.. and it was invigorating.. it was intellectually stimulating.. their were conferences and events related to technology going on everywhere.. I would be sitting in the cafeteria next to the people that authored the books on my bookshelf. And everyone was so accessible and open and communicative and challenging.. everyone seemed to be probing everyone else for knowledge and information... for news.. etc.. And I learned more in the informal education system of my company and through conferences in the valley than I did in all 12 of my years of education in the school system.. Every company was so focused on innovation.. and every individual was so focused on whatever they were working on that that was all anyone talked about.. The coolest person was the smartest person.. the guy that held the patent for this.. or that wrote that book.. It was an environment that worshiped applied intelligence. Technology was actually the culture.. on the technical side.

    On the sales side though.. Money ruled.. it was all about numbers.. business.. market share.. convincing companies to select our product over our competitor product.. and that was less interesting for me.. but it was still interesting because the innovation from the technical side bled over onto the business side and what you got was a kind of business-engineering that sought to revolutionize business processes.. And in this area is where you saw the American leadership. This is where Steve Jobs fits in.. and John Chambers (Cisco systems).. and Larry Ellison (Oracle).. on the business side.

    so let me reiterate.. Science/Technology and Nationalism cannot coexist. Especially not among black people. All that does is hold us back.. We have to be about collecting knowledge and experience from whoever has it.. that's the only way forward. There's no way this section of this board could exist without the contributions of many many people from many different places in the world all applying their genius to creating something new.. and all human.

    [/soapbox]


    -peace.
     
  6. Each1teach1

    Each1teach1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I get what your saying. Thats not the way I meant it to come across. The point I was trying to make is that the only reason foreigners have the positions and gains they do is because the govt set it up that way. If American rulers gave a **** about the future of their country they properly educate period. Dr. Kaku's statement was definitely a stab at the establishment and I can see and understand why. But as American regardless of our political dispositions we should be angry, not with him directly but to the gvt that would dumb the population to a point that someone could even make that statement...I know there are folks preying for the downfall of America but we have to understand that at the end of the day we live here and when it goes down, we go with it...love hate relationship and all. Again my point is American education needs to step it up in order to compete and maintain our infrastructure. My comment wasn't really in regard to technology but the general educational spectrum but that is an important aspect. As far as nationalism goes should we not be embarrassed for the lack of American innovators? Especially when Americans black and white created the modern world??? That is indeed a fact??
     
  7. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    Peace Each1Teach1.. you going to have to forgive me.. I'm in long-wind mode today..

    anyway..

    It's simply not true that "Americans black and white created the modern world". Don't let all the patriotism fumes in the air lead you astray. And I must tell you.. that that un-reconciled Patriotism and Blackness are tricky to hold in the same hand.. tricky.. but not impossible.. just not reccommended.. at least by me. The modern world was created through the systematic destruction of the civilizations of your people (among others).. and the Modern world is sustained by the continued exploitation/rape of the natural resources of the original land of your people. Therefore, the present state/condition of Africa is the foundation for the so-called "Modern World". So while we have to live in it and make our way in it.. and negotiate our existence with those in control of this modern world, we must never lose site of it's true context.. otherwise we could find ourselves championing our own destruction..

    That said..

    Regarding the education system...

    When was the American education system anything more than what it is now? And I'm going to assume we're talking about the public K through 12 system.. because America has some of the finest Privates schools and colleges in the World. So while I disagree that Dr. Kaku is being arrogant.. I can see that is overlooking a very signficant factor.. and that factor is sheer number. India has almost 2 billion people.. China has over 2 billion people.. and throw the populations of all of the 1st world nations.. and you have an overwhelming number of students.. In fact, you have more students than we America has people and dogs and cats combined. so it stands to reason that they would flood our universities.. considering those Universities are the best in the world. And it also stands to reason that once they graduate, that they would take up space it the job market.

    The problem in America actually rests mostly with the people. The schools are there. But people are just not motivated to learn. We all know the challenges faced by our people with regard to the education system.. but what are black people really doing about it? Why aren't black people mobilizing and creating a cultural focus on education in larger numbers.. because it is happening.. but it's not happening on a large enough scale. The Internet opens the gates to the knowledge of the world up to us in new and unprecedented ways.. but how is it being used by the masses? To perpetuate the same dysfunction that dogs us in the streets. You can get a college-level education in your own home right now.. I got my career training from the internet back in the late 90's.. just studying.. asking questions.. experimenting.. started building web sites.. repairing computers.. consulting.. then found employment in I.T. based purely on what I knew.. and what I could do.. and that led to more development and official certifications and a resume impressive enough to land me a job in Silicon Valley..

    That's what's possible with the Internet.. We did not have this kind of access to information back in the 80's.. we had to travel just to get access to certain books.. you had to wait for weeks for a book you ordered to arrive.. today you can have a book delivered the next day.. to go along with all of the books that are available instantly online.. their is no reason why we should be paying anybody for "Introduction to" anything. Our students should walk through the doors of those schools already versed in the topic.. and school should be nothing more than a performance thing.. And that's just not how it's happening.. Our cultural obsession with entertainment and escapism is killing our potential as a people. And I'm aware of all the weapons formed against us out there.. the biases.. the overt racism.. the real conspiracies.. but if we are going to move past conversations of these things..and get down to mitigating these things.. to overcoming these things.. we have to shine a light on our own behavior.. it is, afterall, the only element that we have full control of.

    But this.. so-called "modern World" is held together by people all over the world. And modern technology is the result of efforts from people all throughout time and history. They claim it as their creation.. but it's just not true.

    -Peace again.
     
  8. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Amazing!

    This is so frightening:

    "Our cultural obsession with entertainment and escapism is killing our potential as a people. And I'm aware of all the weapons formed against us out there."

    Have you heard about all of the reality TV shows airing now? I visisted my relative a few days ago and she was perched on her sofa watching one and I too became caught up in it. She said she had just gotten Time Warner Cable and she told me it was a really cheap deal. She admitted she is now a couch potatoe and hooked on it. So when you spoike about the weapons aimed against us, this came to mind immediately.

    That particular show was about the life of Judge Mablean Ephriam and she was so pretty. I got caught up in watching her and her daughter and then right after that show was another one. They entice us with all of these beautiful looking African American movie stars and it becomes easy to forget yourself and your own need to become a positive person in the world too. It's like a drug addiction. I heard there is one of the Cospy kid and her husband, and one of the Braxstons and more. Yes I believe it's true that we as a people wanted to have positive role models on TV but it's like we are being led astray. There must be some kind of under handed mind trick going on or either we just need to just realize that there must be some kind of balance so we can still watch and appreciate others while not becoming couch potatoes. It's like a form of attack going on from some where and it is as if 'they' are saying "so you want Black role models, okay we will make you drunk with them! We are going to get you one way or another!"

    Maybe we need to come up with something in our cown communities and have some form of local entertainment but at the same time introduce educational endeavors and then start handing out rewards for educational acheivements that would soon surpass all of the rewards given to entertainers. I don't really know.

    While 'they' have dumbed us down--flipping around on the slave yard, seeing how druck we can get or who can lift the bail the fastest...& singing with the stars, and rapping and etc., well, it seems to me that they have been able to deal with entertainment in the world and at the same time 'they' crave education and the huge rewards and benefits that comes with the fruits of knowledge. Just like you've said, the condition of Africa the original land has become the foundation of the modern world.

    I told my relative, no matter how cheap Time Warner Cable is, I have no need for it right now and I will not make it easy for myself to get caught up into those shows. She tried her best to convince me to get the deal but right now, I'm so against it. I'm too busy trying to stay behind my kids who are Engineering students. One of my sons has been accepted to UM and it's amazing too what you said about foreigners. He told me he felt like he was in a whole other country because it seemed like the whole area in Ann Arbor is dominated by foreigners. I went up there and it is gorgeous. Many people are like, serious about education. Sometimes my son gets going about some of his teachers and how the students and he cn't understand them due to their strong accents, and he has me crying just from laughing so hard.


     
  9. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    My Dad, who was a senior engineer with a high grossing consulting engineering firm used to emphasize to me that the only color that matters is green.

    And He was a very culturally and politically conscious Pan Africanist, in theory and practice.


    Technology knows no color lines. But those whites on the business side sure do. So, how do we crack the barrier given that the educational system under serves Black youth?
     
  10. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Concerning Google, half was founded by a Russian-born person. So, he was foreign.

    Concerning Silicon Valley, foreigners particularly Asian and East Indians are heavily represented there.

    Much of the innovation that occurs in America has come from foreigners who immigrate here.
     
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