Black Sports : Top trainers pick top heavyweights!

Discussion in 'Black Sports' started by panafrica, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    http://www.fightnews.com/scott199.htm
     
  2. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    if i was to pick my top all time fighter it would run like this
    1.Muhammad Ali
    2. Sonny Liston
    3. Joe Louis
    4.Jack Dempsey
    5.Mike Tyson
    6.Lennox Lewis
    7.Evander Holyfield
    8.George Foreman
    9.Rocky Marciano
    10.Jack Johnson
     
  3. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I was interested in seeing what so many great trainers had to say...still I see bias based on who they trained, and the era they grew up in. My top 10 heavyweights would be like this:

    1. Joe Louis
    2. Muhammed Ali
    3. Larry Holmes
    4. George Foreman
    5. Rocky Marciano (While I think he benefitted from a lack of competition, he is the only heavyweight champ to retire undefeated, which is hard to overlook).
    6. Lennox Lewis
    7. Evander Holyfield
    8. Jack Dempsey
    9. Mike Tyson
    10. Jack Johnson
     
  4. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    I agree Rocky Marciano really didn't have much out there in his era
    the competition wasn't strong as it was with Ali lee and Foreman and Holmes

    while i feel Joe Louis was a proven great fighter i sit Muhammed Ali at the top
    as the greatest fighter i've seen in Heavyweight .

    the trainers list for some are impressive but i agree it's all in who they trained
     
  5. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think Muhammed Ali was a more talented fighter than Joe Louis. In fact I think if we could use a time machine and have both face each other Ali would beat Joe Louis. However I put Joe Louis at number 1 because of his accomplishments: 25 straight defenses (the most in any division) and a title reign of 12 years (again the longest in any division). With such numbers I can't put Joe Louis at anywhere but number one. Ali was the 1st to win the title 3 times, but that feat has been equaled. He reigned during the most competitive period in the heavyweight division. Still Joe Louis' records will more than likely never be broken.

    About Rocky Marciano: Although he retired with a perfect 49-0 record, he only had 6 title defenses. He won the title against an almost 40 year old Jersey Joe Walcott, who still gave Rocky all he could handle. He defended twice against an past his prime Ezzard Charles (a former middle and light heavyweight), who also gave Marciano all he could handle. His last defense was against a 40 year old Archie Moore, who also gave Marciano all he could handle. The other two defenses of his brief title reign were against non descript white opponents. Now he did retire undefeated, which I won't take away from him. Rocky unlike most fighters knew when to quit. The reality is that retiring undefeated isn't a matter of greatness, but knowing how to quit when you are ahead. Still many boxing experts felt Marciano choose retirement rather than to face an up and coming Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston. Rocky Marciano is definately top 10, but he doesn't belong in the top of the list.
     
  6. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    1. Muhammed Ali
    2. The Brown Bomber Joe Louis
    3.Larry Holmes
    4.Archie Moore
    5.Jack Johnson
    6.Sonny Liston
    7.Frazier (not because I think he's great but because of the wars with Ali.)
    8.Tom Molineaux
    9.The Manassas Mauler
    10.Bill Richmond

    notable mention Rocky Marciano...made a name for himself fighting washed up Black Champs and an undersized and old Ezzard Charles who would have whupped him under different circumstances....


    Why didn't the talk to Teddy Atlas for that piece.....or ..and I know he's not a trainer but knows boxing ...the great one Bert Sugar..

    MississippiRed
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother Red:

    How you can include Archie Moore in this list? Archie Moore was probably the greatest light heavyweight of all time; however, he never won a title at heavyweight. I also don't see why so many people think Sonny Liston is a great heavyweight champ when he only defended the title one time (a rematch with Floyd Patterson). Tom Molineaux fought in the 1700s! Man you are reaching way back with this list!
     
  8. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I put Archie Moore because I always liked his heart even though he was never a great heavyweight (he was a beautiful light heavy) but he wasn't afraid to get in the ring with anyone light heavy or heavy....Mr. Moore was and is one of my heroes...

    Sonny I put in just because he was so gangsta...lol...I loved his attitude..it was always F.U. 24/7 and the look on his grill reflected the same...never have thought he was much of a fighter though....

    After my #3 everyone else is pretty much on the list more for personal reasons than for being truly great boxers...even though the last 3 and #6 were good fighters ....but the first 3 are my all time great heavyweights based on actual fighting attributes and success in the heavyweight division.

    Oh yeah I went way back for Molineaux and Richmond just goes to show how long Black fighters have been around knocking knew you'd appreciate that...


    MississippiRed
     
  9. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes I do...it is rare that I met someone who knows as much about boxing history as I do. The few people that do are usually getting paid for it.
     
  10. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You mean I could get paid for this instead of sitting in this cube doing data entry...... yeah it's not as many real die hard boxing fans anymore I'm so thankful that my Daddy and Granddaddy introduced me to boxing as a kid....there's nothing like it .......... I appreciate and enjoy the boxing conversations we have in here bruh .that's real ...meeting more than casual boxing fans and historians is rare these days.... maybe one day we'll be in position to watch a bout....

    MississippiRed
     
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