Black Spirituality Religion : To believers in the GOD of the Old Testaments

Please explain ...

I have a feeling that we are on the same track here but coming from two different angles ...

I am of the same opinion that the characters of the scriptures are simply Kemetic Kings and Queens. If I'm mistaken then please elaborate. On the other hand I believe that the Pharaohs were considered gods through the appointment of position by High Priest as Moses i.e. God (Ex. 7:1). The history of Yisra`el is simply a history of Lower Kemetic peoples. Once again, I may have missed the whole point of this thread and if that is what I have do then please excuse me, but to address your most recent post:

Be advised that we are not examining the Specific Word of GOD. This means that nothing is concrete and we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men.

I agree totally ... my cause for examining the scriptures is that I may help those who are enslaved by the scriptures to re-awaken to our true knowledge. The words of man without debate, are foul and corruptible, yet how does this translate over to those who are enslaved to such idealism.

Another point to this quote that I would like to address is where you said, " ... we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men"

Once again, I agree with this yet I cannot understand why you would say:
For believers in the GOD of the Old Testaments.

Keep your faith in the GOD of the Old Testaments, something is on the rise. You may have noticed many newer understandings of the Old Testaments coming to mainstream media. These newer understandings began to reveal the historical aspects of the Old Testaments, they began to reveal possibly who Moses was in re-life or they possibly reveal the origins of the name of GOD in the Old Testaments.

Please note that I'm not trying to debate or be disruptive ... I'm simply asking, if we cannot make absolute determinations then what qualifies any determination that is made? How can we be selective on what is chosen as absolute verses error? If this be the case then scriptures should be used for the sole purpose of waking people up and not as literal historic tales.

YHVH is created in the Old Testament through using actions and words of multiple Pharaohs and mainly tells the history of the bloodline to the Red Crown.

Very interesting ... please explain

Our ancestors believed in GODLY possession and believed the Pharaoh was endowed with the Spirit of GOD. Thus the Old Testament surmises GOD as the Words of those Pharaohs while being the Living Image of GOD.

GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings.

O.K ... what you are telling me is that God is nothing more then words or expression of the Pharaohs. The Pharaohs are simply the images of their words and thus God is the creation of Pharaohs; literally.

This would be most interesting if this has been understood correctly ... if not once again ... please explain.

Our ancestors believed a man would not have so much power and reign in the earth with so much authority unless he was ordained by GOD. Thus the Pharaoh became our GOD. This was the unique position of the original founders of Kemet. As other foreign African Tribes began infiltrating Kemet this concept started getting challenged more and more, even to the point of rebellion.

If god is the creation of the Pharaoh's words as I believe you implied ("GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings"), then how can one be ordain by that which it created in the first place?

I'm trying to get a clear understanding ...

Ex:15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Moses is referring to a Pharaoh who is possessed by the GOD YHVH.

This is where I keep getting lost ... How can a man be possessed by the God YHWH if the God YHVH is simply a creation of man? In other words, YHVH cease to exist without words of acknowledgment. If the word 'YHVH' should be banned then 'YHVH' as a deity doesn't exist ...

As I was saying in my post ... Moshe was the God who ordained the Pharaohs which is what the High Priest of the scriptures did for the crowning of the new King. You said:

Our ancestors believed a man would not have so much power and reign in the earth with so much authority unless he was ordained by GOD.

It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?

Peace and Blessing ... I'm enjoying the knowledge ...
 
PTAH-TANEN: the God Who Created Us Gods and Goddesses

IN THE NAME OF THE GOD WHO CREATED ME BLACK AND RIGHTEOUS

As-Salaam Alaikum fr. One9_Arch:

Music Producer and Ru2religious appear to be speaking of Ptah-Tanen, the God originally identified in the Lands of Km.t as being responsible for creating Us (my people and me) Gods and Godesses. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High." [Psalms 82:6]

From the earliest of times, km.t was inhabited and ruled by a group of 24 Elders called the Sovereign 'Ata Shapass(ia). The term Elder, as used herein, literally imports an official title of authority used among the Hebrews of the Old Testament. Nonetheless, however, this term was also used to denote the political offices of the Egyptians. [see, for example, Genesis 1:7, and Numbers 22:7 (Egyptians, Moabites, and Midianites used the term Elder in this manner). These were the representatives of the people inhabiting the lands in question, so much so that elders and people are occasionally used as equivalent terms (compare Joshua 24:1 with verses 2, 19, and 21 thereof; and Samuel 8:4 with verses 7, 10, and 19). Their authority was UNDEFINED, and extended TO ALL MATTERS CONCERNING THE PUBLIC WEAL. These were the Gods of the Old Testaments, really.

Read the eleven verses of Revelation, Chapter 4, and re-evaluate your positions where needed. But only if you think it appropriate after researching this issue for yourselves.

[ASA]
 
Please explain ...

I have a feeling that we are on the same track here but coming from two different angles ...

I am of the same opinion that the characters of the scriptures are simply Kemetic Kings and Queens. If I'm mistaken then please elaborate. On the other hand I believe that the Pharaohs were considered gods through the appointment of position by High Priest as Moses i.e. God (Ex. 7:1). The history of Yisra`el is simply a history of Lower Kemetic peoples. Once again, I may have missed the whole point of this thread and if that is what I have do then please excuse me, but to address your most recent post:



I agree totally ... my cause for examining the scriptures is that I may help those who are enslaved by the scriptures to re-awaken to our true knowledge. The words of man without debate, are foul and corruptible, yet how does this translate over to those who are enslaved to such idealism.

Another point to this quote that I would like to address is where you said, " ... we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men"

Once again, I agree with this yet I cannot understand why you would say:


Please note that I'm not trying to debate or be disruptive ... I'm simply asking, if we cannot make absolute determinations then what qualifies any determination that is made? How can we be selective on what is chosen as absolute verses error? If this be the case then scriptures should be used for the sole purpose of waking people up and not as literal historic tales.



Very interesting ... please explain



O.K ... what you are telling me is that God is nothing more then words or expression of the Pharaohs. The Pharaohs are simply the images of their words and thus God is the creation of Pharaohs; literally.

This would be most interesting if this has been understood correctly ... if not once again ... please explain.



If god is the creation of the Pharaoh's words as I believe you implied ("GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings"), then how can one be ordain by that which it created in the first place?

I'm trying to get a clear understanding ...



This is where I keep getting lost ... How can a man be possessed by the God YHWH if the God YHVH is simply a creation of man? In other words, YHVH cease to exist without words of acknowledgment. If the word 'YHVH' should be banned then 'YHVH' as a deity doesn't exist ...

As I was saying in my post ... Moshe was the God who ordained the Pharaohs which is what the High Priest of the scriptures did for the crowning of the new King. You said:



It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?

Peace and Blessing ... I'm enjoying the knowledge ...

I agree totally ... my cause for examining the scriptures is that I may help those who are enslaved by the scriptures to re-awaken to our true knowledge. The words of man without debate, are foul and corruptible, yet how does this translate over to those who are enslaved to such idealism.

Another point to this quote that I would like to address is where you said, " ... we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men"

Once again, I agree with this yet I cannot understand why you would say:
The biggest mistake made when people study the Bible is they fail to separate between man and GOD. Any ancient text from any book that is written in a way that reveals the Words themselves were Spoken by the Supreme Being is the Specific Word of the Supreme Being. When a man or a woman is possessed by GOD they automatically take on two different personalities, that of the human and that of the Spirit. We must distinguish between the two.

People only become enslaved to idealism when they fail to accept the Specific Word of GOD as the absolute and above all other words.

When a human is possessed in ancient text and Speaking as GOD then that becomes the Specific Word of GOD. When a man has been possessed but not speaking as GOD then that is not the Word of GOD but the words of that human.

When you study books of the prophets you will notice they go in and out of trans. One moment they are Speaking as GOD and the next moment they are speaking as themselves. We can only hold the Supreme Being accountable for what is presented as the Supreme Being Speaking. Jesus or Yahshuah is not the Supreme Being thus we cannot hold GOD accountable for what we began to believe through the teaching of Jesus.

David the King is not the Supreme Being thus we can not hold the Supreme Being accountable for what we began to believe through the teachings of David the King. Etc….etc….

I'm simply asking, if we cannot make absolute determinations then what qualifies any determination that is made?
Rather or not that determination is supportive or harmonic with the Specific Word of GOD.

How can we be selective on what is chosen as absolute verses error?
If it is the Specific Word of GOD, if there is error then it is due to us not being advanced enough to understand.

If this be the case then scriptures should be used for the sole purpose of waking people up and not as literal historic tales.
It is both metaphoric and historic written just like the Egyptian tales of the gods. In Egyptian tales of gods if you strip away the deification we are presented with a historic event that was headed by a King. One has to be extremely familiar with Egyptian history in order to pinpoint the historic event.

Very interesting ... please explain
This is just one example:

Gen:11:31: And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

Gen:15:7: And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

Terah was Tao I. Tao I had expanded the Egyptian Empire all the way to Ur / Babylon and ruled from Ur for many years. Something happened in Ur that caused an Exodus of the followers and people of Tao I / Terah. Terah was too old to make the journey back to Canaan / Egypt / Kemet to reclaim his rightful position in showing his Scepter, which was later played out through Moses and occurred in history twice where an Egyptian King had to reclaim his Throne.

Gen 11:31 is referring to Tao I as in the living. Gen 15:7 is referring to Tao I as in death (transcended to Light).

It was Tao I while possessed that Spoke the Words in Gen 15:7 to one of his many, many grandsons who were in bitter rival over who would be the rightful heir.

http://www.domainofman.com/book/chap-9.html

This web page presents a lot of the historical aspects of the Old Testament.

O.K ... what you are telling me is that God is nothing more then words or expression of the Pharaohs. The Pharaohs are simply the images of their words and thus God is the creation of Pharaohs; literally.

This would be most interesting if this has been understood correctly ... if not once again ... please explain.
You totally dropped the word “possession”.
It is up to you and you alone to determine rather or not our ancestors were lying when Speaking as GOD.
In my personal research, study and observation I have determined that they were not lying and had a connection to “Something” we don’t have a connection to today.

If god is the creation of the Pharaoh's words as I believe you implied ("GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings"), then how can one be ordain by that which it created in the first place?
You are failing to separate between the human and the Spirit of GOD when possessing the Pharaoh. If we looked at it from your point of view once the human King died then it would be over. But that is not how our ancestors perceived it. The Spirit of GOD would continue in the next King and so on and so on. That is why we must separate the human King from the Spirit of GOD. The Spirit of GOD is continues, the human kings are not.

This is where I keep getting lost ... How can a man be possessed by the God YHWH if the God YHVH is simply a creation of man? In other words, YHVH cease to exist without words of acknowledgment. If the word 'YHVH' should be banned then 'YHVH' as a deity doesn't exist ...
Man did not create GOD just like man did not create the stars, trees, grass, earth, the Universe etc…etc.

It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?
No. No one human being was solely GOD. Only when that human being became possessed and Spoke as GOD was that human being GOD at that moment, after that the person returned to being themselves.

Peace.
 
IN THE NAME OF THE GOD WHO CREATED ME BLACK AND RIGHTEOUS

As-Salaam Alaikum fr. One9_Arch:

Music Producer and Ru2religious appear to be speaking of Ptah-Tanen, the God originally identified in the Lands of Km.t as being responsible for creating Us (my people and me) Gods and Godesses. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High." [Psalms 82:6]

From the earliest of times, km.t was inhabited and ruled by a group of 24 Elders called the Sovereign 'Ata Shapass(ia). The term Elder, as used herein, literally imports an official title of authority used among the Hebrews of the Old Testament. Nonetheless, however, this term was also used to denote the political offices of the Egyptians. [see, for example, Genesis 1:7, and Numbers 22:7 (Egyptians, Moabites, and Midianites used the term Elder in this manner). These were the representatives of the people inhabiting the lands in question, so much so that elders and people are occasionally used as equivalent terms (compare Joshua 24:1 with verses 2, 19, and 21 thereof; and Samuel 8:4 with verses 7, 10, and 19). Their authority was UNDEFINED, and extended TO ALL MATTERS CONCERNING THE PUBLIC WEAL. These were the Gods of the Old Testaments, really.

Read the eleven verses of Revelation, Chapter 4, and re-evaluate your positions where needed. But only if you think it appropriate after researching this issue for yourselves.

[ASA]

Music Producer and Ru2religious appear to be speaking of Ptah-Tanen, the God originally identified in the Lands of Km.t as being responsible for creating Us (my people and me) Gods and Godesses. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High." [Psalms 82:6]
From my studies the name Amma in reference to the Supreme Being was originally the GOD of Kemet. There were beings referred to as the Nummo that were Amma’s helpers. Somewhere along the line humans confused the helpers for gods and started worshiping them as such. This is the point in time where Monotheism and Polytheism came about.

I understand from the earliest of time as Kemet being ruled by the Ancestors and there were always nine as we see in the Ogdoad.
 
In the Spirit of Sankofa!

I agree with the position that you have taken but I would definitely like to discuss whom the god of the Old Testament really is.


.................................................................................................

As time goes on I will collectively cover more points but for this topic I would definitely like to start where everything begins and that is with the ideal of who the 'Most High' was. Once this is understood, only then can the scriptures be read in its most literal sense.

1.) Who was the God of the Yisra`elites?
A1) Exodus 15:3 YHWH is a MAN of war: the YHWH is his name.

2.) Who was Moses/Moshe?
A2) Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Q&A for 1 and 2 will help to solve the mystery of who was the actual god of Yisra`el. The cultic knowledge of the Hathor societies gives one an understanding of why the Yisra`elites would create such statues. Let us reread the making of this supposedly one golden calf.


Note: Could this be why Yashua said, "You are of your father and his lust will ye do ... he was a murderer from the beginning"

Yashua spoke these thing to the Yisra`elites who were there questioning him ... and it was the Yisra`elites who followed the ways and laws of Moshe.

Exodus 15:3 Yahovah is a man of war, Yahuwa is his name.

This is a good place to start …

UPDATE: Had to make some grammatical changes and added few points ... its not the best grammatically but I think it is totally understandable.

Peace and blessings




ru2religious,

You appear very serious about defining the God of the Old Testament, and very eloquent in your expressions as well as a willingness to research. These traits are admirable.

Outside of Exodus 15: 3, are there any other scriptures you rely upon in support of your theory that God was a man?

Also, when you set out to explain how Moses received his god status as provided in Exodus 7:1, how do you define the grantor (LORD) cited in the text?

Furthermore, you have stated this; “It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?”

First, who is the High Priest? And second, how do you answer the question: Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?

So as not to interfere with ongoing discussion between the Producer and yourself, there is no need to prioritize answers to these four(4) questions.

 

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