Black Spirituality Religion : To believers in the GOD of the Old Testaments

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Music Producer, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    For believers in the GOD of the Old Testaments.

    Keep your faith in the GOD of the Old Testaments, something is on the rise. You may have noticed many newer understandings of the Old Testaments coming to mainstream media. These newer understandings began to reveal the historical aspects of the Old Testaments, they began to reveal possibly who Moses was in re-life or they possibly reveal the origins of the name of GOD in the Old Testaments.

    Be mindful that when Satan can’t weaken you against the message he begins influencing weaker faith or no faith people to attach the messenger. Revealing that Moses may have been Akhenaten doesn’t weaken the teachings of the Book. Revealing that Joseph may have been the Egyptian Yuya doesn’t weaken the teachings of the Book.

    GOD is the great TEACHER and like all teachers they test you in what has been taught. No matter what, keep your faith in GOD.

    2: The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.
    3: He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
    4: Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
    5: Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD is his memorial.
    6: Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment, and wait on thy God continually.


    The Negroes entire life, entire existence is all about our relationship with GOD. Establish it, fortify it and you will have the power the heathen is afraid of.
     
  2. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I know this post is old but I have to ask, have you changed your position on this?

    I've done a lot of research on this god of the OT when I was following the teaching of Yisra`el and the movement of the law-keepers. When I unlocked who this deity really was, it was then that I began to reposition myself. This isn't something that many on here don't know ... actually its quite the opposite.

    All I have to say is that death and destruction, along with slavery follows this deity, especially if we are to view this man as a deity. In his physical state, he was criminal from the beginning and this can be verified through the scriptures

    Now if this is still the same position that you carry, I would definitely like to re-examine this post. If not then I will continue to go through the archives and learn from different subjects or better yet, become familiar with this forums spiritual movements.

    Peace through Balance!
     
  3. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Absolutely not, the more and more I study the stronger the position becomes.

    What people don’t realize is overtime Egypt was flooded with foreign African Tribes and became much like America, a melting pot of foreigners. Our problem was we did not separate government and religion.

    It can be shown that Akhenaten’s bloodline was legit to be Pharaoh.

    It can be shown that the Egyptian Police and Military were with Akhenaten.

    It can be shown that the wiser of the Amun Priesthood went with Akhenaten.

    It can also be shown that the bulk of the Egyptian population followed Akhenaten to Akhetaten.

    Akhenaten’s reign was doing so well that he started having the walls of Akhetaten covered in gold foil.

    With all of this being shown, who were the people that forced the population of Akhetaten out of Egypt and burned down the House of GOD (Aten Temple)?

    It was the foreign African Tribes that did not recognize the authority of Pharaoh and did not see the Pharaoh as the Living Image of GOD.

    The foreign African Tribes who had infiltrated the Amun Priesthood hired mercenaries from far places to exile Akhenaten and the community of Akhetaten.

    Several African tribes around the region today have an Oral History of being chased and led out of Egypt.

    From what I have studied Akhetaten was the final stand of the original Egyptian bloodline that established Kemet / Egypt from foreign African Tribes that were not in on the establishment of Kemet.

    The current people who control what is and what is not presented about Egyptian history kinda sweep the monotheistic history and ancestors under the rug because they want Africans today to believe Africa is not the origin of Monotheism. The Old Testament makes it very clear that once a specific bloodline of Africans start returning back to the GOD of the Old Testament that the ruling kingdom at the time will be diminished and the specific bloodline of Africans will once again reign in the earth.

    Publishing information that Africa is the origin of Monotheism and Africans are the children of Israel kinda screws up the entire white Jew concept. You also have to realize there are a lot of black people who have been brainwashed to accept this Caucasian Jew concept and many of them will fight right alongside the white man against another black man to keep the white establishment.

    I have even debated with black people on this forum that believed Akhenaten was a Caucasian. They also believed that the Hyksos were Caucasians and were actually teaching this to other black children.

    The battle between Monotheist and Polytheist has an extremely long history and it continues even to this very day.

    Peace.
     
  4. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Very interesting post ...

    I agree with the position that you have taken but I would definitely like to discuss whom the god of the Old Testament really is.

    First I would like to highlight some of the points that you have made up to this point.

    1.) Akhenaton being the first Monotheists is not totally accurate in concerns to Km.t. Actually all of the Kings & Queens of Km.t were Henotheistic; believing in 'One' primary deity while acknowledging the possibilities of many deities = personalities. Neither is Monotheism accurate about the Yisra`elites. There were 5 different phases to the Sun god which was like a clock, showing what periods of time man was in. Kheper, Ra, Ptah, Aten, Amen. These are the same deity but represent different phases and personalities of the Suns cycles. Example: saying Amen at the end of your prayers are acknowledging that we are in the time where Knowledge has been hidden from our people. We've been in this stage for at least 2500 to 3000 years. We are the hidden ones which is what Amen is and thus it is our higher self that has been hidden from our physical reality. Monotheism is not an accurate word to use when describing Khem.tic and Yisra`elite people.

    2.) When the order of the Per-aah was introduced in Khem.t (e.g. Matriarchal vs. Balanced) The Per-aah/Pharaohs were Henotheistic in nature as well. I don't like to use the word Monotheistic because it takes away the Henotheistic nature because in reality they believed in one 'Most High' and all others were personalities of the Most High which are falsely identified as deities. The Hebrew on the other hand acknowledge that their was one man deity will accepting the thought of many gods making them Henotheistic; not Monotheistic.

    3.) We have to remember that the Kings and Queens system was unlike that of the Pharaoh's system. What both systems have in likeness is that it was based on a Matriarchal system and the belief of who god i.e. the Creator was as a feminine energy.

    4.) All Queens and Kings were considered deities which was the purpose of the 2 golden Calves and the creation of them during the time of Akhenaton. I will cover that more during our communicating. Those who tried to create the golden Calves were punished but these were the of the Hebrew Priesthood of Khem.t. Once again, Hebrews and Yisra`el are not one and the same. This teaching has lasted for centuries, but it must come to an end.

    5.)Akhenaten was a black man with an elongated cranium, large lips the whole 9 yards ... his mother Tiye was black ... well I will let the pictures talk for itself ...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    and here is Akhenaten:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now here goes a picture of a Hyksos:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It really doesn't matter what kind of way people choose to see it, even the Hyksos were black.

    6.) As you stated, there were many African tribes which came into Khem.t (i.e. Africa) and as stated by the Khem.tians themselves, they came from a point further south then Upper Khem.t. As a matter of fact the first people who inhabited Khem.t was the Anu people from Kush/Ethiopia. Khem.t priesthood was a collection of 42 tribes as as the laws of Maat (pronouced as 'Me'). The number 42 and the number 5 has a power in ancient Km.t ...

    .................................................................................................

    As time goes on I will collectively cover more points but for this topic I would definitely like to start where everything begins and that is with the ideal of who the 'Most High' was. Once this is understood, only then can the scriptures be read in its most literal sense.

    1.) Who was the God of the Yisra`elites?
    A1) Exodus 15:3 YHWH is a MAN of war: the YHWH is his name.

    2.) Who was Moses/Moshe?
    A2) Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

    Q&A for 1 and 2 will help to solve the mystery of who was the actual god of Yisra`el. The cultic knowledge of the Hathor societies gives one an understanding of why the Yisra`elites would create such statues. Let us reread the making of this supposedly one golden calf.

    Exodus 32:4 and he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, these be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    If you notice you will see that the words ‘molten calf’ is singular in nature but in the very next section of this same scripture it says, “these be thy gods” as in plural. In ancient Khem.t when a pharaoh is crowned, they are embellished with gold and through this act the Pharaohs and mates are then identified as the golden calves. They have reached the statues of god hood through their mother Hathor the sky goddess who gives birth to the golden calves.

    The question is, why would Yisra`el make golden calves unless they subscribe to the ideal of a golden calf? There was no such thing as a Yahweh/Y’hovah worship during their stay in Khem.t so why would this deity murder so many Yisra`elites for the golden calf? This can be found in the Yoseph/Yuya story but in order to truly understand this story you have to understand the geography of where Canaan was and who’s providence the ancient land of Ka`naan was, which just so happens to be Khem.t. In the time of Ab-Ra-Hem Canaan was ruled by the King Melchizedek who was the ruler Salem (a piece of middle Khem.t).

    The man called King Melchizedek was also named ‘Adonizedek’ with the‘d’ and‘t’ being interchangeable this would render the word ‘[Adon]izedek’ as ‘Aton’ or ‘Aten’. The word ‘Atonizedek’ then becomes ‘Aton is righteous’. Aten was the deity of Akhenaton who many believe falsely to be Moses/Moshe.

    When the Yisra`elites left the providence of Canaan they went into the Capitol city of Khem.t during a famine. You have to ask yourself, why they would go into Km.t a whole different country (supposedly) if they didn’t have a union to Khem.t. Why didn’t they just go back to Ur of Shinar/Sumeria? Reason! They didn’t have to because they were related to the first people of Khem.t the Anu people who were the first of Mesopotamia as well. They were all Ethiopians from the beginning. Now when they moved into the city of 'On they became part of the priesthood through Yuya/Joseph.

    READ: (Genesis 41) Joseph becomes the priest of ‘On’ in Khem.t and Visor …
    READ: (Genesis 46) The Jacob and his 12 tribes moved to Lower Km.t capitol ‘Zoan/Zion’ also called ‘On’.
    READ: (Genesis 50:2-3) Jacob is embalm like Kemetic Pharaoh’s … Note: Kemet had a King by the name of Yaa`qub. The question becomes, Could this be the same King as is the King of the Yisra`elites? I think a lot of people forget that Ab-Ra-Hem had soldiers that went with him to rescue Lot. This inheritance was handed down to Y`saac and from Isaac to Yacob. We know that the 365 soldier multiplied dramatically by the time of Jacob so Jacob being identified as a King is without lack of reason.

    READ: (Genesis 50:26) Joseph dies and is embalmed in Kemet and placed in a coffin.

    When they lived in the holy city called ‘On’ they were priest in this holy city of Khem.t. This was the line of Joseph, but then you have to ask, what is a Hebrew? Or even better yet, what is a Levi? The word 'Levi' comes from the word “Laviy’ in the Hebrew tongue/language. Now as we did previously we have to take the linguistic variations and compare it to the kemetic language. The Hebrew letter ‘L’ is interchangeable with the letter ‘R’ and the Hebrew letter ‘V’ is interchangeable with the Khem.tic letter ‘U’. Taking the word ‘Laviy’ now becomes ‘Ra-ui’ which means ‘Ra the Healer’ or ‘Ra the Twisted’ as in Twisted snakes … the symbol for health care.

    To get back on point the golden Calves were the children of the Goddess Hathor which were Pharaohs, Kings and Queens. The Golden Calves were Pharaohs and the Yisra`elites made Aaron/Aharon and Miriam the Golden Calves, crowning them Pharaohs of Yisra`el. Moses got extremely mad when he came down from Mount Sinai, the mountain of the god ‘Sin’ e.g. a Babylonian deity. Remember Moses was proclaimed to be a God to the Pharaoh (Exodus 7:1) and thus he was the god of Aaron/Aharon, but Aaron was not given Kingship by Moses yet and thus he was crowned under the goddess Hathor. This made him extremely up set and thus when he came back, he had a lot of people killed.

    I've always ask the question, why would he kill all of those people and not Aaron? He acted as though Aaron didn’t do anything wrong. Aaron got his designation but it had to come through his god; Moses. All you have to do is research the rest of the stories and you will see that Aaron never went to the Most High himself but he always went to Moses even though he was supposed to be a high Priest. He was not a high Priest, he was the King of Yisra`el. Also as a side note, when he made designation for all of the tribes, why wasn't there one from the house of Yahuda not crown king?

    Here in lies another secret that I hope we can cover in more detail later, never the less, Joseph was the line of the priestly tribe and Aharon/Akhenaton was the Kingly/Pharaohs line.

    Back to the creation of the golden calf and what lead to this creation.

    Exodus 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him.

    Moses was their deity and because they didn’t know what had become of Moses they needed new deities {Polytheistic}. Note: they didn’t ask for one, but they asked for GODS as in plural.

    The word Yahuwa can be a person as described previously in the Eloher thread, but there is another word which can be used equally as Yahveh/Yahuwa/Yahweh/Yah. This word is Yahovah/Jehovah. Now the word Y`hovah is two words … the word ‘Ya’ means god and the word ‘hovah’ means ruins or mischief thus making ‘Yahovah’ the god of Mischief. Moses was known to put his foot in some butt because it was through him that millions were murder by the hands of Yisra`el at his command under the presumption that a higher deity told him to murder.

    Note: Could this be why Yashua said, "You are of your father and his lust will ye do ... he was a murderer from the beginning"

    Yashua spoke these thing to the Yisra`elites who were there questioning him ... and it was the Yisra`elites who followed the ways and laws of Moshe.

    Exodus 15:3 Yahovah is a man of war, Yahuwa is his name.

    This is a good place to start …

    UPDATE: Had to make some grammatical changes and added few points ... its not the best grammatically but I think it is totally understandable.

    Peace and blessings
     
  5. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Be advised that we are not examining the Specific Word of GOD. This means that nothing is concrete and we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men.

    YHVH is created in the Old Testament through using actions and words of multiple Pharaohs and mainly tells the history of the bloodline to the Red Crown.

    Our ancestors believed in GODLY possession and believed the Pharaoh was endowed with the Spirit of GOD. Thus the Old Testament surmises GOD as the Words of those Pharaohs while being the Living Image of GOD.

    GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings.

    Our ancestors believed a man would not have so much power and reign in the earth with so much authority unless he was ordained by GOD. Thus the Pharaoh became our GOD. This was the unique position of the original founders of Kemet. As other foreign African Tribes began infiltrating Kemet this concept started getting challenged more and more, even to the point of rebellion.

    Understanding this point of view now brings into focus this statement…..

    Ex:15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    Moses is referring to a Pharaoh who is possessed by the GOD YHVH.
     
  6. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Please explain ...

    I have a feeling that we are on the same track here but coming from two different angles ...

    I am of the same opinion that the characters of the scriptures are simply Kemetic Kings and Queens. If I'm mistaken then please elaborate. On the other hand I believe that the Pharaohs were considered gods through the appointment of position by High Priest as Moses i.e. God (Ex. 7:1). The history of Yisra`el is simply a history of Lower Kemetic peoples. Once again, I may have missed the whole point of this thread and if that is what I have do then please excuse me, but to address your most recent post:

    I agree totally ... my cause for examining the scriptures is that I may help those who are enslaved by the scriptures to re-awaken to our true knowledge. The words of man without debate, are foul and corruptible, yet how does this translate over to those who are enslaved to such idealism.

    Another point to this quote that I would like to address is where you said, " ... we cannot make an absolute determination about GOD through words of men"

    Once again, I agree with this yet I cannot understand why you would say:
    Please note that I'm not trying to debate or be disruptive ... I'm simply asking, if we cannot make absolute determinations then what qualifies any determination that is made? How can we be selective on what is chosen as absolute verses error? If this be the case then scriptures should be used for the sole purpose of waking people up and not as literal historic tales.

    Very interesting ... please explain

    O.K ... what you are telling me is that God is nothing more then words or expression of the Pharaohs. The Pharaohs are simply the images of their words and thus God is the creation of Pharaohs; literally.

    This would be most interesting if this has been understood correctly ... if not once again ... please explain.

    If god is the creation of the Pharaoh's words as I believe you implied ("GOD is created in the Old Testament through the Words of multiple Egyptian Kings"), then how can one be ordain by that which it created in the first place?

    I'm trying to get a clear understanding ...

    This is where I keep getting lost ... How can a man be possessed by the God YHWH if the God YHVH is simply a creation of man? In other words, YHVH cease to exist without words of acknowledgment. If the word 'YHVH' should be banned then 'YHVH' as a deity doesn't exist ...

    As I was saying in my post ... Moshe was the God who ordained the Pharaohs which is what the High Priest of the scriptures did for the crowning of the new King. You said:

    It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?

    Peace and Blessing ... I'm enjoying the knowledge ...
     
  7. One9_Arch

    One9_Arch Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    PTAH-TANEN: the God Who Created Us Gods and Goddesses

    IN THE NAME OF THE GOD WHO CREATED ME BLACK AND RIGHTEOUS

    As-Salaam Alaikum fr. One9_Arch:

    Music Producer and Ru2religious appear to be speaking of Ptah-Tanen, the God originally identified in the Lands of Km.t as being responsible for creating Us (my people and me) Gods and Godesses. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High." [Psalms 82:6]

    From the earliest of times, km.t was inhabited and ruled by a group of 24 Elders called the Sovereign 'Ata Shapass(ia). The term Elder, as used herein, literally imports an official title of authority used among the Hebrews of the Old Testament. Nonetheless, however, this term was also used to denote the political offices of the Egyptians. [see, for example, Genesis 1:7, and Numbers 22:7 (Egyptians, Moabites, and Midianites used the term Elder in this manner). These were the representatives of the people inhabiting the lands in question, so much so that elders and people are occasionally used as equivalent terms (compare Joshua 24:1 with verses 2, 19, and 21 thereof; and Samuel 8:4 with verses 7, 10, and 19). Their authority was UNDEFINED, and extended TO ALL MATTERS CONCERNING THE PUBLIC WEAL. These were the Gods of the Old Testaments, really.

    Read the eleven verses of Revelation, Chapter 4, and re-evaluate your positions where needed. But only if you think it appropriate after researching this issue for yourselves.

    [ASA]
     
  8. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The biggest mistake made when people study the Bible is they fail to separate between man and GOD. Any ancient text from any book that is written in a way that reveals the Words themselves were Spoken by the Supreme Being is the Specific Word of the Supreme Being. When a man or a woman is possessed by GOD they automatically take on two different personalities, that of the human and that of the Spirit. We must distinguish between the two.

    People only become enslaved to idealism when they fail to accept the Specific Word of GOD as the absolute and above all other words.

    When a human is possessed in ancient text and Speaking as GOD then that becomes the Specific Word of GOD. When a man has been possessed but not speaking as GOD then that is not the Word of GOD but the words of that human.

    When you study books of the prophets you will notice they go in and out of trans. One moment they are Speaking as GOD and the next moment they are speaking as themselves. We can only hold the Supreme Being accountable for what is presented as the Supreme Being Speaking. Jesus or Yahshuah is not the Supreme Being thus we cannot hold GOD accountable for what we began to believe through the teaching of Jesus.

    David the King is not the Supreme Being thus we can not hold the Supreme Being accountable for what we began to believe through the teachings of David the King. Etc….etc….

    Rather or not that determination is supportive or harmonic with the Specific Word of GOD.

    If it is the Specific Word of GOD, if there is error then it is due to us not being advanced enough to understand.

    It is both metaphoric and historic written just like the Egyptian tales of the gods. In Egyptian tales of gods if you strip away the deification we are presented with a historic event that was headed by a King. One has to be extremely familiar with Egyptian history in order to pinpoint the historic event.

    This is just one example:

    Gen:11:31: And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

    Gen:15:7: And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

    Terah was Tao I. Tao I had expanded the Egyptian Empire all the way to Ur / Babylon and ruled from Ur for many years. Something happened in Ur that caused an Exodus of the followers and people of Tao I / Terah. Terah was too old to make the journey back to Canaan / Egypt / Kemet to reclaim his rightful position in showing his Scepter, which was later played out through Moses and occurred in history twice where an Egyptian King had to reclaim his Throne.

    Gen 11:31 is referring to Tao I as in the living. Gen 15:7 is referring to Tao I as in death (transcended to Light).

    It was Tao I while possessed that Spoke the Words in Gen 15:7 to one of his many, many grandsons who were in bitter rival over who would be the rightful heir.

    http://www.domainofman.com/book/chap-9.html

    This web page presents a lot of the historical aspects of the Old Testament.

    You totally dropped the word “possession”.
    It is up to you and you alone to determine rather or not our ancestors were lying when Speaking as GOD.
    In my personal research, study and observation I have determined that they were not lying and had a connection to “Something” we don’t have a connection to today.

    You are failing to separate between the human and the Spirit of GOD when possessing the Pharaoh. If we looked at it from your point of view once the human King died then it would be over. But that is not how our ancestors perceived it. The Spirit of GOD would continue in the next King and so on and so on. That is why we must separate the human King from the Spirit of GOD. The Spirit of GOD is continues, the human kings are not.

    Man did not create GOD just like man did not create the stars, trees, grass, earth, the Universe etc…etc.

    No. No one human being was solely GOD. Only when that human being became possessed and Spoke as GOD was that human being GOD at that moment, after that the person returned to being themselves.

    Peace.
     
  9. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    From my studies the name Amma in reference to the Supreme Being was originally the GOD of Kemet. There were beings referred to as the Nummo that were Amma’s helpers. Somewhere along the line humans confused the helpers for gods and started worshiping them as such. This is the point in time where Monotheism and Polytheism came about.

    I understand from the earliest of time as Kemet being ruled by the Ancestors and there were always nine as we see in the Ogdoad.
     
  10. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    ru2religious,

    You appear very serious about defining the God of the Old Testament, and very eloquent in your expressions as well as a willingness to research. These traits are admirable.

    Outside of Exodus 15: 3, are there any other scriptures you rely upon in support of your theory that God was a man?

    Also, when you set out to explain how Moses received his god status as provided in Exodus 7:1, how do you define the grantor (LORD) cited in the text?

    Furthermore, you have stated this; “It was the High Priest of Yisra`el that was ordaining and anointing with oil - a newly acknowledge king. Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?”

    First, who is the High Priest? And second, how do you answer the question: Would that make the so-called High Priest God if it is God who ordains?

    So as not to interfere with ongoing discussion between the Producer and yourself, there is no need to prioritize answers to these four(4) questions.

     
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