Black People : This is why you do NOT have free will

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by African_Prince, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You think you made the conscious decision to enter this thread, don't you? You did not. Your sub-conscious calculated that entering this thread was the most desirable decision based on compulsions (chemicals in your brain) that you have no control over. You might have had the compulsion to log off, you might have had another compulsion to enter another thread, the strongest compulsion (the one to enter this thread) one. Your sub-conscious made this calculation nanoseconds before your conscious mind thinks it decided to do so and this is not a philosophical stance, neurological testing has proven this.

    The conscious mind is a product of the brain, an inanimate, physical organ and thus, is subject to the decisions that this unconscious, biological 'computer' (the brain) calculates. The conscious mind can no more behave independently of the brain then a neuron can, both the individual neuron and the neurological process that is (or causes) the conscious mind are a part of a larger, unconscious central nervous system.

    You (the conscious mind) cannot be held responsible for any decision you've ever made in your entire life. For the benefit of society and even themselves, people need to be held accountable for their behaviour, of course, but the fact that free will is an illusion lends support to the idea of rehabilitation over punishment. When a man steals, he should be incarcerated, not for the sake of punishing the conscious mind but for the sake of conditioning the sub-conscious mind against stealing. Anti-social people are sick, they need help not punishment. Emotionally, it's difficult for me to digest this but intellectually, it makes perfect sense. We are animals, if even the most intelligent and self-aware non-human animals like dolphins or chimpanzees are usually not credited with 'free will', why should we be?
     
  2. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Birth of the Sub-concious

    As an extension to the "I Don't Exist" thread, I don't think the subconscious BASED it on the activity of chemicals, those chemicals are an observable stage in the mechanisms that facilitate the process. It is easier for those who adhere to the biological model (as opposed to the behavioral or cognitive model etc) to pinpoint what type of chemical irregularities/inadequacies are being exchanged (synaptically) at that level to provide psychotropic intervention. But all research does not state that it INITIATES from that level and is still under intensive research. The same physical laws we prescribe to the universe (electrical in particular) underlie the process we call "Willing". In that sense I agree (to an extent) on your assertion for free will. I think the concious mind is similar to pressing the record button (active) and the subconscious is like the magnetic tape. The conscious mind strengthens the template from which those impulses, you stated, engender from (Sub-conscious) in (so called) "future events." I think it is a cyclical relationship and because the conscious mind is more involved and identifies with the present it may not be aware of the scripts it has been writing and validating for itself in the subconscious which eventually starts calling the shots. It's the question of the Chicken or the Egg. I believe it is (INTENTIONALLY) through the conscious mind that these programs need to eventually get reconciled in the envelope (storage system) of the subconcious. One can intentionally and methodically reprogram in the same manner that it was indiscriminately done.
     
  3. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    These calculations were't made randomly, human behaviour is the product of cause and effect.

    We know that emotions aren't self-contained, we don't randomly feel happy or sad for no reason whatsoever. Our emotions are the product of neurochemistry and environmental influences. Likewise, our consciousness isn't a self-contained entity that exists and behaves independently of the brain.
     
  4. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I once told you before that you are so much a product of European thinking. It is obvious that in my opinion you are now intellectually licking their @ss as well. What happened to your African Studies? Why is it that you are not aware that our (your) people in ancient Kemet had mapped out the entire subconscious mind?...the very one that you claim controls everything. Obviously this could not be done by the "conscious" mind if what you stated via European ignorance was true. Even your post, which veer on the point of trying to impress or display your illusionary mental or intellectual superiority has a European origin...simply because they do nothing to elevate or enhance African consciousness or reality is a European thought process. ADVICE: Come Back Down To Earth where we are and where we must move forward with a visible enemy pushing their manifested thought processes in the world to our detriment.
     
  5. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    Yes, at least until you go back to the First Cause. There, causality ends.

    Personality is affected by electrochemical reactions, certainly. The prescribing of serotonin to treat depression proves this. Anyone who has ever gotten drunk, or high, knows this from direct experience. Fortunately, the I which is the luminous Self is not the personality, or the brain.

    All chemicals, being matter, were once energy. And, in truth, if you can bear it, all matter IS energy, some forms more subtle then others.

    And, all the four known forms of energy [gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces, and electromagnetic] at the moment of the Big Bang, were caused by one super force: the Theory Of Everything.

    What this means is that all that is, including personality, traced back in the chain of causality to the Big Bang, manifests from the First Cause -- which some, for lack of a better name, call God.

    Even the bible hints that free will is an illusion, although it is the rare Christian who picks up on this. Revelations 17:8 describes the bad guys -- those who who wear the mark of the beast in their foreheads --- as those whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. And, note, the world was founded from what we now call the Big Bang.

    If the names of those who will not be "saved" were recorded in the Book Of Life before they were born, how can any of us be said to possess free will?

    The answer to this question can only be grasped if you understand that there are no individuals. There is only Brahman/God/Allah/Atum. And, since there are, in truth, no individuals, there can be no individuals with free will. There can only be the Will of the One from whom all is manifest.

    "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may beleive that thou has sent me."
    Those whose names are in the Book Of Life are destined to eventually come into the knowledge of all these things. With the illusion of free will, some will choose to be "saved". But, the enlightened understand that the chain of causality which determines "whosoever will, let him come" was set into motion from the foundation of the world.

    The concept of free will is part of what Vedantists call maya -- the Divine "force" which manifests to mortal men this dependent reality of a material world. I say "dependent" because to believe in maya and free will one must possess a certain degree of ignorance [avidya] to cover the eyes so that they will not see, and to stop up the ears so that they can not hear, the glory of the effulgent One.
     
  6. Mad Skillz

    Mad Skillz Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    He's a mole brother Keita. I said this two years ago.
     
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