Libya : The United States of Africa with Libya's Khadafy as president

panafrica said:
All this being said, the true question is how can we change things? I for one believe that the social/economic state of black people worldwide will not improve until social/economic/political state of Africa improves.

What we have in Africa is neo-colonization. In truth Africa was never freed, a nation can not have independence if it does not have control of its economy or its resources. Political independence without economic independence is an illusion! That Africa's leaders are controlled by the colonial masters is evident with Zaire's first president, Lumumba. For all intents and purposes he was a strong leader, without corruption, that wanted to built a strong nation. The result of this was that Belgium had him murdered after only 6 months in office, and handpicked a replacement who was loyal to Belgium. His replacement was Mobutu, one of Africa's most infamous butchers who placed the country in turmoil for almost 30 years.

Economically, some African countries fare better than others. What is it that the profitable countries do that the impoverished countries don't? Is it that they are too dependent on foreign countries for their basic needs? I found this thread and it made me think of this discussion. African Economies. . .
http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17392


Under a United States of Africa, would/could there be the equivalent of a "Bill of Rights" and "Constitution"?
 
I've just recently finished reading the book "King Leopold's Ghost" by Adam Hochschild--chilling. I feel so angry at how Imperialist bastards (forgive my French) raped Africa!!! Who the HELL gave them the right to call Africans savages, when they we're responsible for far more incomprehensible atrocities!!! Then they have the nerve to belittle the impact that slavery and colonization has had on an ENTIRE people. Get the **** out of here!!! It was THEY who are the cause of almost all of our wars and yet they THEY blame us for our condition--give me a break! That's like giving someone a cold, and then blaming them for sneezing. If you read the way the imperialists treated Africans you'll ether cry or explode with anger. Here is just two extract from the book. The first is an account from a Black female witness Mingo of Mampoko at an international commission carried out to find out the extent of the atrocities committed in the Congo under the ownership of King Leopold II of Belgium. The second is from another Black male witness Etuku who is the paramount (supreme) chief of Boieka:

"While I was working at brick-making at Mampoko, twice the sentries Nkusu Lomboto and Itokwa, to punish me, pulled up my skirt and put clay in my vagina, which made me suffer greatly. The white man Likwama [a company agent named Henri Spelier] saw me with clay in my vagina. He said nothing more than, 'if you die working for me, they'll throw you in the river.'"

Another witness Etuku, the paramount chief of Boieka said:

"I knew jungi well. He died about two months ago from the whipping he received. I saw him hit and I saw him die. It was about three or four meters from the white man's veranda, at the spot I showed you, between the two cactuses. They stretched him out on the ground. The white man Ekotolongo [Molle] held his head, while Nkoi [Ablay], standing at his feet, hit him with a cane. Three canes were broken during the execution. Finally Nkoi kicked Jungi several times and told him to get up. When he didn't move, Ekate said to the white man, 'This man is dead. You've killed him...' The white man replied, 'I don't give a ****. The judges are white men like me.'...Jungi was buried the next day...Jungi was an old man but he had been healthy."

These two extracts are only the tip of the iceberg. It is estimated that the population of the Congo was reduced by half because of the atrocities that were carried out there. In just two decades the population dropped from 20 million to 10 million. That means at least 500,000 people were killed each year in a genocide that doesn't even make a blip on our history books. So when these stupid imperialists (and their apologists) claim that they some how brought civilization to Africa, I feel like...I won't finish what I was about to say!!! In fact many of the horrendous practices being carried out in the Congo today were first learned from the imperialist who introduced them!
 
NNQueen said:
PA, given all that you wrote..and thanks for the detail..do you believe that your solution of African American business people going to Africa to help build strong infrastructures will work as a logical first step?

If present governments are corrupted by their exposure and dependence on Europe for their livelihood and are contributing to the poor living conditions in their countries as a result, how is it that any of us can help without overthrowing the system of government and changing foreign relations first?

Because most of the African nations are so dependent on Europe and have grown accustomed to this co-dependent relationship, wouldn't there need to be some internal revolution first before the benefits that African American business people can make, can be productive and effective?

These are all very good questions NN. I believe the best way to reduce Africa's dependence on Europe, is to reduce their need for Europe's help (or any outside help for that matter). In truth Africa needs outside help for developing its infastructure: From airports to trains to roads to matters as simple building wells. This would allow them to move goods, and develop markets. However, since many lack the knowledge or the resources to do so for themselves; Africa turns to Europe for help because they have always been there. It is obvious in our discussions that in Europe they are going in the wrong direction. Although many people simply do not know where to turn to for help or advice. For example I remember once that one of my African history professors from Sierra Leone told me that he was hired by an African town (I don't remember which) to oversee the construction of a bridge. He was hired simply because he was a Ph.D! However this man had a Ph.D in history, he wasn't an engineer. This is not only an example of the lack of knowledge of where to turn to, but of some Africans willingness to exploit one another (because my professor knew he couldn't be of help, yet still took the job).

Although the economic future of Africa doesn't look rosey, there is a positive to this debate: An African/African American business merger might be closer to reality than we even realize. I know 1st hand the the founder of the now defunct African Profiles Magazine has spearheaded an effort to get African American business leaders to invest in Nigeria. There are a couple of PanAfrican organizations which encourage investment in the African Stock market. There are steps, for now baby steps, but nonetheless steps being made in the right direction. We should keep in mind that it took Europe over 30 years to develop their union, and they were stable. It can take Africa no less time. This is not a solution that is possible in the immediate future, but a necessary one for the not too distant future.

P.S. NN you might want to check out Walter Rodney's "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" it is a amazing work on the economic effects of Imperialism on Africa.
 
PA, so to put it in simple terms, are you suggesting that if African-Americans who are resourceful, lend their knowledge and skills to African countries with poor infrastructures, they will gradually become less dependent on European countries for support--then, eventually, becoming more economically/socially independent?

I see that I need to read and study more on this issue because it's a critical one. It raises a number of questions but I'm not sure how to frame the questions without them sounding superfulous. I don't want to simply skim the surface on this discussion because it deserves far more respect than that.

I think we need the collective and healthy minds and energy from all members of our African-American society. I believe we all have something of value to contribute to Africa if we give it some serious thought.

There's a huge push in America today, particularly on college campuses, on volunteerism and the many benefits gained when people volunteer their time to help strengthen a community. We have a strong history as African-Americans for engaging in volunteer service. We work through churches, grass-roots and national level organizations, we work in fraternities and sororities as well as help each other on an individual basis. But we tend to localize our efforts and my thinking is we may need to extend our efforts to Africa as well.

My sense is that we, African-Americans, need to start seeing the value in getting involved with PanAfrican organizations and be willing to help each other on a global scale. Doing so should not be perceived as counter-productive to one's sense of self, it shouldn't go against anyone's spiritual beliefs, and it doesn't mean you're a militant person out to kill "whitey". That might be what some people would want you to believe in order to keep Black people divided and Africa impoverished, but it's not true. For African-Americans, ignorance is not bliss.

We now know that there are a number of organizations that exist but maybe someone needs to share contact information and some details about how people can get involved. Are there newsletters that people can subscribe to keep abreast of information and activities. It would be nice to know whether the various PanAfrican organizations have or can come together to form a coalition, which can spearhead and stimulate the creation of a "United States of Africa".

Hopefully slavery and racism haven't effectively removed any sense of attachment from us for our Africa. Some of us might fear getting involved to any degree but the question these people should ask themselves is, what do you stand to lose if you don't?

Maybe helping Africa will give us a chance to take our minds temporarily off of our own personal problems so that we can sharpen our "helping" and problem solving skills, build alliances with our indigenous brothers and sisters making us a force necessary to do business with, and ultimately help ourselves through strengthening our mutual relationships.

Peace!
 
Ran across this information

Surfing through the older thread in the "Open" Forum. Here's a short quote from the thread starters original post:

09-24-2002, 01:00 AM
Africa Unite Post #1

Chibinda
MEMBER

Joined: Sep 2002
Age: 33 Greetings to you all,

This is your invitation to join/support the new APU, founded on 4 september 2002. Below is a brief discription of the place the APU takes in the greater scheme of things.

The APU is the ultimate in the world-wide Pan-African movement. Its main objective is the empowerment of the grassroots of the African people, the level on which the war for the mind of the African has always been fought, the level on which the survival of the race has always depended.

It is therefore not far fetched to say that this is the level on which the fight for freedom, dignity and control of our destiny will be won.

There are already a number of organizations working to empower the grassroots of African people, the most notable and organized being in the diaspora.

A good example of this would be the PowerNomics Broadcasting Network (PRN). Structured on Dr. Claud Anderson's Powernomics book, designed to be the advertising arm for the growing number of PowerNomics-based businesses and industries, it is dedicated to using its talk-programming to make Black America self-sufficient and competitive, and is one of the first organizations authorized to use the PowerNomics® name.

To read more details, visit here:

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10468

Peace!
 

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