Black People : The truth about race

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by African_Prince, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Race is not a biological concept, it is socially constructed. Black Africans do not share a common genetic heritage ( by 'genetic heritage' I'm referring to Y-chromosomal DNA and mitochondrial DNA), in fact, sub-saharan Africa is the most genetically diverse region of the world because human beings have been living there for the longest. People share a similar phenotype not because they share a common genetic heritage but because their ancestors happened to independently adapt features that were advantageous to the climate that they lived in (ie. dark skin and tightly curled hair being advantageous to the sub-saharan African climate). A perfect example of this is the Melanesians of the Pacific who usually have dark skin and tightly curled hair but aren't genetically related to Africans (no more then any other group of homo sapiens) and are not of modern African origin (all homo sapiens are of pre-historic African origin). The first homo sapiens to leave Africa (whose descendents are alive today) were the ancestors of the Aboriginal Australians who have been in Australia for around 40 - 50 000 years, because indiginous Australians have been "away" from Africa the longest, they are the most genetically distinct from African people which means that we have more in common (genetically) with White Europeans then with dark skinned indiginous Australians.

    From a biological perspective, you can't break a population down any further then sub-species and all living humans not only belong to the same species (homo sapiens) but the same sub-species as well (homo sapiens sapiens). Homo sapiens sapiens (who themselves descend from the extinct sub-species, homo sapiens idaltu) are too young to have evolved into seperate sub-species. The fact is that all human beings are of African descent because homo sapiens are an African species, there's nothing "technical" about this. That being said, I don't consider myself to be a pan-humanist, I think that culture and ethnicity is the most important aspect of human identity. Knowing that race is socially constructed, (not phenotype itself but the idea that you can group people together based on phenotype as though they shared a common heritage) does this alter your racial idealogy in any way or would you just argue that people instinctually identify with other people who resemble them (in terms of phenotype)? Do you think that it is superficial for a Nigerian, (Black) Jamaican and Black American to identify strictly because they are Black (ie. dark skinned with tightly curled hair) or would you advocate unity on the basis that Western Black people are of "recent" African origin?

    Ethnicity and culture is also socially constructed but culture has more meaning because it denotes a way of life. Culture permeats every aspect of modern human existence (the language you speak/think in, values, traditions, mannerisms etc.). Then again, one can argue that phenotype will always be deeply relevent to human culture.
     
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    try explaining this to the po po next time they pull you over...
     
  3. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Racism is also socially constructed. I never denied that race has social value and I never said that I was against 'racialism'. Are you saying that racial nationalism and unity is a response to racism? If racism hypothetically disappeared, do you still think a racial idealogy would still be relevent? I'm not against racial nationalism, I just want to know if knowing that there is no biological basis for race influences the perspective or views of the people on this board who are for a race based pan-Black unity or nationalism.
     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!


    African_Prince,

    It is safe to say that the information shared reflects a level of knowledge that is common to many of us here, at Destee.com. It also shows your willingness to study, gather facts and to understand concepts, a commendable quality.

    Most of the information can be stipulated to the arrival of a sound and basic construct, however, some would enter into sharp debate over several of the premises you have outlined. Nevertheless, the gist of what you have shared is a proper conclusion which forces a yes to the three (3) questions posed.

    In view of the above, what is the purpose of the thread? What direction will you steer the discussion, if any? Do you have expected achievements?

    Lastly, have you given any thought to how this information could be used toward eliminating racism (non-hypothetically), which seriously affects our people?


     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    nope....
     
  6. toma

    toma Active Member MEMBER

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    INDIGENOUS AFRICANS

    .

    To digress a little from the initial point, why is it that we never describe blacks in Africa in terms of them being indigenous to that land mass? We do that with every other group. We do not describe indigenous Americans as "brown Americans", neither do we apply that kind of ambiguous label with any other human grouping.

    Of all the various groups in this world, indigenousness is more applicable to blacks in Africa than anyone else. Everyone else came from somewhere else to get to where they are at, except black Africans. And yet even we who should be conscious of the importance of establishing and promulgating that reality are drawn in into using descriptive terms that eludes that reality. I know, I Know, catch myself doing it often, and then have to check myself. After all, who can provide evidence to dispute that blacks are the indigenous peoples of the African Continent.
     
  7. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I simply wanted to know how people with any race oriented idealogy contextualized the fact that race was not a biological concept. Personally, I think that phenotype will always be deeply relevent to human culture because it is natural for us to identify with people who resemble us.



    I'm not sure I understand. Who denies that Black Africans are indiginous to the African continent? I use the terms "Black" and "sub-saharan" African to distinguish us from North African Berbers and Egyptians who are, contrary to popular belief, indiginous to the African continent. Another thing many people don't realize is that Europe is not a continent, Eurasia is one land mass with one plate tectonic.
     
  8. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What do you mean by *Natural*? In regards to how it is used in the above statement.


    While being completely aware of the "reality" of the biological underpinnings(contrasting the authenticity of phenotypical similarities or differences), by what mannerism of reasoning allowed you to conclude that it was natural instead of a choice? (curious)
     
  9. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The jury is still out on the "supposedly" different or divergent ancestral lineage of the North African Berbers and the Egyptians compared to "sub-saharan" Africans. I would suggest not to fall in the trap.

    Blackbird
     
  10. toma

    toma Active Member MEMBER

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    CULTURAL PERCEPTIONS THAT HUMAN GROUPS ARE DISTINCT MAKES RACE A PRACTICAL REALITY

    .

    The north African Berbers are not indigenous to Africa. At least according to Doctor Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan in his work, Africa, the Mother of Western Civilization. But maybe he is wrong too.

    I was making a rue observation with my remarks about the indigenousness of black Africans. As a matter of fact the United Nations still refuses to recognize Africans as an indigenous people.

    You have to be careful with your descriptions, as those who you refer to as Eyptians now are not indigenous to that region either. In addition, how can we make a differentiation between black Africans and Egyptians when Egypt was a creation of black Africans.

    South and North America, Africa and South America, maybe this entire world was just one large land mass if we go back far enough. Turkey straddles both Asia and Europe across the Bosporus.

    Africans seem to be the only group that spend an inordinate amount of time trying to prove to the world that there is no such thing as race. That we are all one big family. Maybe that is why others move forward that much faster than we do. To the extended human family we are at best "black sheep" they would rather have as little to do with as was possible. Maybe it would be a lot more prudent for us to spend less time on efforts at reconciling with disinterested relatives, and more time on forging unity among our outcast community.
     
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