Black Spirituality Religion : The Trinity Is Not A Biblical Belief

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by ABDULLAH, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. ABDULLAH

    ABDULLAH Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Trinity Is Not A Biblical Belief

    Jalal Abualrub

    www.calltoislam.com

    Source: 50 Righteous and Humane Concepts Brought By Muhammad,

    Pages 20-22





    ‘Wa shahida shahidun min ahliha’

    “And a witness of Her Own Household Bore Witness”


    …Major western encyclopedias and dictionaries, written in the Christian West, by mainly Western Christians, admit to these facts:



    The New Encyclopedia Britannica: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deuteronomy 6:4). …The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. …It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons. …By the end of the 4th century … the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.” 1




    The Encyclopedia Americana: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.” 2




    The Columbia Encyclopedia: “Trinity … the doctrine is not explicitly taught in the New Testament.” 3


    The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The formula [one God in three Persons] itself does not reflect the immediate consciousness of the period of origins; it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development … The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” 4

    ____________________

    1 The New Encyclopedia Britannica (vol. XI, pg.928) (2003)

    2 The Encyclopedia Americana (vol. XXVII, pg.294L) (1956)

    3 Legasse, P (Ed.) (2000). The Columbia Encyclopedia (Pg.2885)

    4 The New Catholic Encyclopedia (vol. XIV, pg.295 & 299) (1967)



    Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics: “In the New Testament we do not find the doctrine of the Trinity in anything like its developed form, not even in the Pauline and Johannine theology.” 5




    Encyclopedia International: “The doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the apostles’ preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.” 6






    New Bible Dictionary: “The word Trinity is not found in the Bible, and, though used by Tertullian in the last decade of the 2nd Century, it did not find a place formally in the theology of the Church till the 4th century.” 7




    Dictionary of the Bible: “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief.” 8





    New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology: “The NT does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity … primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church.” 9




    The Oxford Companion to the Bible: “Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon… While the New Testament writers say a great deal about God, Jesus and the Spirit of each, no New testament writer expounds on the relationship among the three in the detail that later Christian writers do.” 10







    __________________________

    5 Hastings, J. (1951). Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (vol. XII, pg.458)

    6 Henderson, I (1969). Encyclopedia International (pg.226)

    7 Douglas, J.D. (1962). The New Bible Dictionary (pg.1298)

    8 McKenzie, J.L (1995) Dictionary of the Bible (pg 899)

    9 Brown, Colin (1932). New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

    (vol.2 pg 84)

    10 Metzger, B.M & Coogan, M.D. (1993). The Oxford Companion to the Bible (pg.782)

    …Trinity was forced into Christianity by Emperor Constantine, who in 325 CE called for the first ecumenical council in church history for the purpose of settling the disputes about the nature of God that arose between various Christian sects.



    1. Weeks after the council met, comprised of 318 bishops according to Athanasius as he stated in his letter Ad Afros, the doctrine of the Trinity was forced upon Christians as the creed to be followed.



    2. Horrific religious persecution followed the decision made by Constantine, essentially a pagan Emperor, to impose an invented creed never preached by Jesus (peace be upon him)



    3. Even the most fanatical supporters of Trinity cannot scientifically trace modern-day Trinity any farther back than the second Christian century. Even then, it was an alien creed, never propagated by Jesus (peace be upon him) or by any of his disciples. During that era, Trinity would have competed with other alien theories popular among Christians about the nature of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him).



    4. True faith in Jesus (peace be upon him) diminished ever since, until almost disappearing before Islam came.
     
  2. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The text of the Bible itself dissagrees with the quotes you have posted.

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
     
  3. ABDULLAH

    ABDULLAH Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    God Almighty, and one or three?: In this letter to answer these questions: Christ - peace be upon him - or the God of the Messenger? Is it one God or Trinity?.
    Answer derived from the Testaments of the Bible - old and new - with some words of the men said the church and free thought of the Westerners.

    http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_Is_Allah_one_or_three.doc


    Is Trinity Doctrine Divinely Inspired

    http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_Is_Trinity_Doctrine_Divinely_Inspired.PDF
     
  4. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    If the Bible is Divinely inspired, as it claims to be, the doctrine of the Trinity is most definately divinely inspired as the scriptures I previously provided clearly demonstrate.

    2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    What you are doing is an apples and oranges comparison. The PDF files you have provided are based on the Quran. I don't know of anyone who has ever used the Quran to support/validate the doctrine of the Trinity. The Bible and the Quran are like apples and oranges, they are not the same. They do not support the same religion, the same world view, the same belief system.
     
  5. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa and Peace and Love!




    Good use of scripture Full Speed. One of the very first accounts found within the biblical manuscript setting forth this profound point of view on the Trinity, exists in Genesis 1: 26 ( And God said, Let us...).

     
  6. noor100

    noor100 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Br.Clyde I would like to respond to this thread very much...I hope you brothers don't mind.

    In the Qur'an We is sometimes used and i had asked someone about this...and this basically is what i was told and have since found out...sometimes we take the scripture too literal...and this is one of those times.


    If Allah is the only one God, why does He use the pronoun "we"instead of "I" referring to Himself in the Quran?


    28.02.2010


    • First of all, with the affirmation and witness of the whole universe, from the smallest atoms to the largest stars; there is no doubt in the fact that “Allah (swt) is the only one God.”

    • In the Quran, the usage of the plural noun referring to Allah is only seen for “the first person.” Yet, whenever the second and the third personal pronouns are mentioned referring to Allah (swt), always the singular person is used in the verses such as “you, He, Him, His… etc.”

    “How can you disbelieve in Allah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.” (Baqara, 28)


    • However, the usage of both plural and singular pronouns referring to Allah (swt) are seen only in the first person such as “I, me, we, our”.

    But the essential point to which we must pay attention is that “we” doesn’t come to mean plural in these verses. It is used as “royal we” for which many languages including Arabic, English, Hebrew and Persian provide the usage. “Royal we” is used for singular person displaying the meanings of royalty and grandness.


    http://www.godallah.com/we_and_he.php
     
  7. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa and Peace and Love!




    Not at all sister noor100, please join the thread, and thanks for the insight and link source. To begin, I fully understand your position, the thread starter's and all else. Not only do I understand, but I respect them as well. What we have here is call fundamental disagreement.

    And as long as we continue respectfully, we will have honest and robust debate on the issues. At this point, I must agree with Full Speed pointing out a kind of juxtaposition taking place between the two (2) texts; the Qur'an and the Bible. In my view, each text stands alone, separate and apart. Assuredly, taking the Qur'an and interpreting the Bible seems to be central in this discussion, but a thing I could never do in the reverse.

    Therefore, I maintain the plurality of the word us to mean just that, more than one. Again, I must say, the concept of the Trinity is very, very profound and escapes the average, so-called, Christian's comprehension.

     
  8. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Old Testament Trinity Proof Texts



    Genesis 1:26

    "Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.

    Genesis 19:24

    "Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.


    Isaiah 6

    Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.


    Isaiah 40-55

    Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. This spectacular link explores over 20 different passages in Isaiah and John.


    Isaiah 45:23-24

    I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.


    Micah 5:2

    But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.


    New Testament Trinity Proof Texts

    Mark 2:5-12

    Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?

    John 1:1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

    John 5:18

    For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

    John 8:58

    "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.

    John 10:33

    "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. … Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?"


    John 12:41 + Isaiah 6

    A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.


    John 19:7

    The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."


    Romans 14:11

    For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God."


    2 Corinthians 13:14

    Philippians 2:1-2

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


    Philippians 2:9-11

    "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


    Revelation 22:3

    "And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him."




    http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-proof-texts.htm
     
  9. Zim

    Zim Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    interpreting the scripture how you like is not proof the trinity was always at the root imo.
     
  10. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What is your interpretation of those specific and straightforward scriptures?
     
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