Black Spirituality Religion : THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE...

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Aqil, Oct 19, 2004.

  1. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:9,16-17)

    Having described God's creation of Adam, the author of Genesis 2 moves on to Adam's home, Eden (after the Sumerian word for "plain"), located roughly in what is now southeastern Iraq. God equips this primeval paradise with rivers, precious minerals, and above all, lots of pretty fruit trees.

    For reasons best known to Himself, God singles out one particular tree – called the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" – whose fruit man is forbidden to eat. This, of course, is the famous "forbidden fruit," though you may be surprised to know that that phrase appears nowhere in the Bible. (It was coined in the 17th century; "forbidden apple" is even older). And despite all those pictures of a serpent tempting Eve with an apple, the Bible never tells us what kind of fruit the tree of knowledge bears. If anything, it was more likely apricots, pomegranates, or figs than apples. (Adam and Eve will use fig leaves to hide their nakedness in Genesis 3:7; thus the expression, "to cover with a fig leaf.")

    But the important point about this tree is that if Adam (a Hebrew word meaning "man") eats of it, he shall on that day be "doomed to death," as the Hebrew says. (The King James rendering – “thou shalt surely die” – is presumptive; Adam and Eve live to tell the tale.) God wouldn't have had to say this, of course, if he didn't know Adam would be sorely tempted, which raises the question of why he put the tree in the garden in the first place.

    Also puzzling is what the author means by "knowledge of good and evil." In the Hebrew original, the word for "knowledge" also means "knowing," and the entire phrase might be translated as "knowing how to distinguish good from bad" – which Adam presumably wouldn't need to do so long as nothing bad turned up in paradise. But God never promised him that.

    As we all know, a serpent does get Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and she quickly persuades Adam to join her (Genesis 3:6). Thusly "doomed to die," they are expelled from Eden so that they can't get their hands on another magical tree, the "tree of life," mentioned in Genesis 2 as a source of immortality. This one was probably a pomegranate tree, since that fruit was a symbol of eternal life in the Middle East.

    If you happen to crave the "forbidden fruit" of your forebears, you can still find it today if you live near a good market. The term has been bestowed on a few species of citrus, such as the grapefruit-like shaddock, one variety of which is known as citrus paradisi. Another term for this fruit is "Adam's apple" (a name also given to that projection of cartilege in a man's throat) on the fanciful assumption that a piece of forbidden fruit stuck in Adam's throat…
     
  2. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    very inlightening and intresting to know and learn thanks for this brutha
     
  3. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
     
  4. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You're welcome, Rich...
     
  5. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What about Grapes being symbolic of the tree of knowledge. The bible does associate wine with sin. And we know some religoius sects believe they can reach a higher level of knowing through intoxicants.

    In the bible the whore of babylon deceives by getting others to follow her with wine. she is destroyed by a winepress. I guess reaping what she had sown.
     
  6. IntuitioninMD

    IntuitioninMD Banned MEMBER

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    Do I know you Aquil??? lol




    I just had this discussion with my very religious family last week. I mentioned to them that because I feel that God is a just God he gives us the "POWER OF CHOICE". Because of this, I believe that everyone "KNOWS" what they should do (good) vs. what they should not do (evil). In Genesis God did tell Adam that if you eat of that tree (TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL) that you are choosing evil over ME (GOD). Before they ate of the tree -- they only knew what was good. I believe that God is a just God because he did not have to give them the CHOICE to go against Him. That is so wonderful.

    Sometimes I might "KNOW" something but not understand it. I might "understand" what I think I "KNOW" but not have the "WISDOM" to apply it.

    I really enjoy seeing my people discuss religious topics.

    Thanks Aqil.. You have been very enlightening. :read:
     
  7. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What Happend After Eve Ate The Fruit ?

    After Eating The < Qat Leaves , Eve Was '' High '' And Experienced Hallucination Which Are Created In The Hypocampus Area Of The Brain She In Turn Convinced Adam . Who Was Hesitant At First , To Partake Of The Drug . That Evening They Heard The Voice Of Yahuwa Of The Eloheem '' Gods '' Kalkael Walking In The Garden ( Genesis 3 ; 8 . ) . They Used The Word Yamshi In Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic , And Hawlak In Aramic / Hebrew Which
    < '' To Walk , To Go . Depart '' . > And They Hid From Him Amongst The Trees . < Man Went From Sham To Stupidity > This Is Why People Hate To Be Called Stupid . ( The Second Thing They Did Was The Stupidest Thing They Had Even Did ; To Hide In The Garden Amongst The Trees From Someone Who Created The Garden And The Trees . Yahuwa Of The Eloheem '' Gods '' Called Out To The Man , ( Where Art Thou ? ) He Answered , ( Genesis 3 ; 9 '' I Heard Thy Voice In The And I Was Afraid ( For Retribution ) ,. Because I Was Naked [ Ashamed ] And I Hid Myself ( Genesis 3 ; 10 ) . Who Told You That You Were Naked ? Yahuwa Of The Eloheem '' Gods ''Kalkael Asked ; Did You Eat Of The Fruit I Told You Not To Eat , Did You Do What I Told You Not To Do ? ( Genesis 3 ; 11 ) < The Man Answered . '' The Woman You Gave Me . Gave Me The Fruit And I Ate If ( Genesis 3 ; 12 ) ; Blaming The Woman . By Blaming The Woman . You Are Blaming Yahuwa . He Saw Your State Because All The Animals Had Mates And Out Of His Compassions . He Gave You A Mate ( Genesis 2; 18 ) . ( However , It Was Not The Woman's Fault That She Listerned To The Whispering Of The Serpent / Nakhash , It Was The Man's Fault . It Was His Job To Teach The Woman So She Would Not Be Seduced And Tricked ) ;...


    How Was Satan Able To Seduce Eve? Didn't She Know Better ?
    When he came before Eve . He came as A Beautiful Man Without A Flaw On His Body And He Appealed To Her Vanity The Same Way He Appealed To The Vanity Of The Taniym . The Dragon , And The Peacock . Then He Asked Eve , '' Did The Eloheem '' Gods '' Really Tell You Not To Eat The Fruit From The Tree In The Garden ? '' Genesis 3; 1 He Appeared To Her And Said The Eloheem ( Gods ) Know That The Day You Eat Of The Tree You Will Both Become Eloheem ( Gods ) . Angelic Beings And Liken Unto El Eloh Himself . He Appealed To The Fact That The Woman Cared About The Way She LQQk . The This Very Day The Woman Sits In Front Of The Mirror And Exercise Her Vanity . Here Is The Nature Of The Devil ; Check His Nature . This Is Before He Manifested Into A Seed . Still While He Was Azazil . A Cherubeen . He Started To Question Yahuwa , The Creator , < '' Did He Say You Shouldn't Do So And So ? > . See , The Evil Angel Will Spark The Conversation That Will Lead To The Confusion . Eventhough When They Initiate The Question He May Sound Meaningful And Intelligent . But It's Leading Into Something . This Is How The Devil Works . This Is Why Anyone Initiating Confusion In A Conversation Is Called The Devil's Advocate . Devil Will Lead Into Something Which Is Seldomly Blunt With Their Devilishment And Very Cunning Like Yahuwa Of The Eloheem '' Gods '' Kalkael '' Says , ''' Subtle ( Genesis 3 ; 1 ) . Eve Answers ;
    < '' We May Eat Of Any Tree In The Garden Except The Tree In The Middle Of It '' > . '' The Eloheem ( Gods ) Kalkael Told You Not To Eat The Fruit Of That Tree Or Even To Touch It < '' For In The Day That Thou Eatest Thereof Thou Shall Surely Die '' > ( Genesis 2 ;17 ) Can Anything Be More Final ? But Notice How Kalkael Work . He Tells You That You Can Have All The Fruit From All The Trees That Are In This Garden Just Don't . Touch The One Thing I Tell You Not To Touch . And The '' Snake '' Replied ; < '' That's Not Ture '' > . And The Word Being Used For Die Is '' Mooth '' And It Means < '' To Die , Kill , Have One Executed '' > . See He Reversed It . Did Adam And Eve Die In The Day That They Ate Of The Fruit ? < '' No > Yet , Kalkael Knew That Adam And Eve Would Not Die Immediately After Eating The '' Fruit Of The Tree '' . He Knew That Anything That Was Created In A Physical Body Was Destined To Age And Eventually Die . But In ( Genesis 3 ; 3 ) It Is Not Talikng About Eventually Dying . Not This Kind Of Death . Its Talking About An Immediate Death .Maweth < '' Death , Dying , State Of Death '' > . The Eloheem ( Gods ) Kalkael Was Telling Them This So That They Could Have Obedience . This Is The Same As When A Parent Tells Their Child < '' Don't Smoke Marijuana Or You Will Drop Dead '' > . But The Drug Dealer Who's Trying To Sell You The Drugs Says . < '' Your Mother Don't Know What She's Talking About , You Won't Drop Dead '' > . However If You Do Smoke The Marijuana Or Any Drug For That Matter . You Might Not Drop Dead Right There On The Spot But If You Continue To Smoke It Over A Period Of Time You Will End Up Dead . The Evil Whisperer Khannaas ( Nakhash ) Told Eve That Kalkael Was Lying To Her About The Fruit Because He Did Not Want Her To Be As Knowledgeable As He Was Knowing Good From Evil . The Devil Whispers Into The Hearts Of The People From The JinnIn People . The Get Right Inside And Because The Jinn In People . El's Holy Quraan 15 ;27 , And I Quote , And Jaan Eloheem / Anunnaqi < Khalaqnaahu > Created Him From Before ( The Re- Creation Cycle
    < Al Samoom > The Poisonous ( Samael ) . , A Title Also Called Haylal , Son Of Shakhar And Mylitta .
    Refers To The Evil Angel As The Race Of Evil Ones . There Is A Tribe Of These Devils . Then There Are Tribes And Clans , And Families . Sama'el Then Went On To Convince Eve To Partake On Qat Which Is A Chewable Intoxicant Referrred To In The English Translation Of The Torah As The Fruit '' Genesis 3 ;2 ... They Symbolically Call It '' Apple '' Because Of The Similaity Between The Poppy Seed ( Mother Of All Drugs ) And The Pomergranate Apple Which Both Open Up . And Have A Bunch Of Little Seeds Inside . Qat Is Also Known By The Names Such As < Kat , Khat , Chat . And Miraa > .. The Bitter And Astringent Qat Leaves Contain A Narcotic ( Addicting Drug ) And A Potent Amphetamine ( Central Nervous System Stimulant ) . That Produces A Mild Form Of Intoxication Or A '' High '' When Chewed Or Swallowed . Qat Is No Longer Found In Arabia . But In Yement Because Yemen Still Stays Above Water . Qat Is Harvested And Sold To This Day In The Country Of South Yemen . Whose Capital Is Aden . The Women Saw How Beautiful The Tree Was And How Good It's Fruit Would Be To Eat And She Thought How Wonderful It Would Be To Be As Great As El Eloh . So She Is Tempted By 3 Things ; ( 1 . Food . 2 . Beauty . 3 . Knowledge ) . So She Took Of The Fruit And Ate It . Then She Gave Some To Her Husband . As Soon As They Had Eaten They Were Given OverStanding And Realized They Were Naked ( Now Man Is Given His First Attrbute Shame ! ) . He Now Has Shame . Something He Did Not Have . Shame Is Responsible For All The Institutions That House The Criminally Insane . Sham Brings Complexes . The Word '' Complex '' Means '' A Complex Situation '' Not Simply Solved . Its Those Complexes That Make People Hate Their Mother Or Hate Women And Go Chop Women Up . Paranoia Is A Form Of Having A Complex . < Shame Is The Root Of All Insanity On The Whole Planet > . Being Ashamed . Having To Prove A Point . To Stand Out .Misjudge , Always Hearing The Wrong Interpretation Assuming That Everyone Is Talking About You If There Was No Reason To Be Ashamed , There Would Be No Blame . If You Didn't Have These Complexes You Wouldn't Have To Assume That Someone Is Talking About You .



    When Sama'el Presented Himself As And Angel To Eve .
    This is something Bible historians don't even attempt to explain how an ordinary fruit or the eating of it would make one as Wise as God and his angels . It was good for food , Pleasant To The Eyes , And Desired To Make One Wise . After The Sepent Nakhash , Disguied as The Taniyn . Came upon Eve as a well made Man . He lead her to The Forbidden Tree where he sprang out of The Mouth of The Taniyn and stood under The Tree appearing as an Eloheem '' Gods '' The Serpent Nakhash was Acting the part of a Slimy Low - Life Person ; Someone you would call A '' Snake '' . He himself was not a snake , He was a man acting The Part Of A Snake . Do not get Confused with The English Version of the Bible Genesis 3 ; 1 . When it describes Nakhash as A '' Serpent '' Nakhash just Acted The Part Of A Snake . However . He was a walking and talking person . In The Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic Version Of Genesis . This Word El Hayyatu translates as '' The Serpent '' But it really mean '' The Living One '' People Of Religion Think Of The Serpent Nakhash As Some Kind Of Snake That Can Talk . Snake Do Not Talk And Eve Was Not Alarmed By Whoever This Was Talking To Her , Realistically Speaking You Know That If Any Human Being Male Or Female Were Standing Next To A Tree , And A Snake Started Talking To Them They Would Be Alarmed By The Fact That A Snake Does Not Have Vocal Cords . It doesn't Have The Ability To Speak . The Serpent Nakhash Was Whispering To Her . Trying To Speak . ( Snakes Can't Talk ) .
    However , It Is Said That The Serpent Was A Symbol Of The Evil Angel / Devil And That Is Not In The Torah The Word Nakhaas Means '' To Whisper '' As I Explain Before .
     
  8. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Refocus

    Brothers and Sisters I have read some of the thread posted on this subject. There are some very intriguing explanations. If I may interject a thought, though we may speculate on what particulate type of fruit the tree of knowledge of good and evil what is most important is God said do not eat. "Do not eat" was Gods first commandment to man in which man disobeyed. The fruit of the tree was not special. The willful disobedience is what opened Adam and womans eyes. This disobedience was the death of holy or spiritual man and the birth of the sinful or natural man. Sometimes we must see the world with panoramic vision instead of microscopic vision.


    Peace

    Radical Faith
     
  9. TLizChosen

    TLizChosen Member MEMBER

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    Hot Iron

    Radical Faith, if I may say......If you tell a child not to touch the iron because it will burn.....

    I think the same applies here.. "Don't eat or you will die"....


    Ecellent reply

    Blessings
     
  10. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    MYTH: God planted a Tree of life and a Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    The Myth can be found in Genesis 2:8-17

    The Reality: These two special trees symbolically represent the Egyptian deities Shu and Tefnut..The hebrews replaced the Egyptian deities associated with moral order and life with two trees. Shu is light,heat and air Tefnut is moisture and fire the ingrdients for clouds and lightning. Tefnut wears a disk and uraeus (snake) on his/her head. A snake and disk(circle) could form # 6.

    Adam, [Jewish writers confused with the Egyptian Atum] and Eve (Venus) did not die when they ate from the tree. Indeed, God feared that they would next eat from the Tree of life and gain immortality and become “one of us”i.e. Atum, Nun, Horus (see Genesis 3:22)

    One Egyptian myth as Khepri (sun god) wishing to vivify the forms of Shu Tefnut he made into living gods.

    Why did god fear that Adam and eve would learn about morality and become god-like? And why did he fear that they would become immortal? As an all -powerful deity, he can reverse the cause and effect and return things to the status quo ante.

    Egyptian Coffin text 80 contains an extensive philosophical presentation of the Egyptian Heliopolitan Creation myth and it contains some interesting and overlooked passages about life and morality. The most significant portions for our purpose concern the children of Atum. The heliopolitan creator.

    Atum’s two children are Shu and tefnut, and in this text Shu is identified as the principle of life and tefnut is identified as the principle of moral order, a concept that the Egyptians referred to as MAAT. These are the two principles associated with the two special trees in the garden of Eden/Nile,the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Not only does the Egyptian text identify these same two principles as offspring of the creatorv deity,the text goes on to say that Atum/Adam is instructed to eat of his daughter, who signifies the principle of moral order (Maat)

    “It is of your daughter order that you shall eat”-Coffin text 80,line 63

    This presents us with a strange correlation. Both Egyptian myth and Genesis tell us that the chief deity created two fundamental principles, life and moral order (Religion original name is obedience). In the Egyptian myth, Atum is told to eat of moral order but in Genesis,Adam is forbidden to eat of moral order

    It’s also worth noting that the serpent in the tree motif associated with the Adam and eve story comes directly from Egyptian art. The Egyptian believed that Re,the sun god that circled the earth every day, had a nightly fight with the serpent Aphophisband each night defeated him.Several Egyptian paintings sho a scene in which Re, appearing in the form of Mau,the great Cat of heliopolis, sits before a tree while the serpent coils about a tree,paralleling the image of rivalry between Adam and the serpent in the tree in the Garden of Eden/Nile. By the time israel resided in Egypt,the images of Re and Atum werte closely associated ,and Egyptians actually recognized a composite deity called Atum-Re. Replacing Re with Atum in yjr serpent in ther tree motif brings the image even closer to that of the biblical account which confused/fused Atum with Adam.
    The purpose of this Jewish story was about Moses/pharaoh Akhenaten being expelled from Egypt and doing away with all the attributes and fucntions of god confused as gods (polythesism) into one monotheists representation of the sun rays as (Aton/Aten/Adon). The purpose of this tree of life story is to condemn the Egyptian idea that knowledge of moral order(Maat) would lead to eternal life. In the Egyptian text Nun urged Atum to eat of his daughter tefnut, giving him access to moral order.

    If Genesis draws upon the Egyptian doctrine, why does the biblical story take such a radical turn when it comes to eating from the tree of knowledge? The divergence in the two stories results from fundamental differences between Egyptian and Hebrew beliefs about the afterlife.

    The Egyptians believed that if you lived a life of moral order,the god Osiris, who ruled over the afterlife,would award you eternal life. That was the philosophical link between these two fundamental principles of life and moral order, and that is why Egyptians depicted them as the children of the creator. In effect, knowledge of moral behavior was a step towartds immortality and godhood. That is precisely the issue framed in genesis.

    When Adam ate from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, God declared that if Adam also ate from the tree of life he would become like god himself. But Hebrews were monotheists.The idea that humans could become god-like flew in the face of the basic theological concept of biblical religion.

    The Hebrew story is actually a sophisticated attack on the Egyptian doctrine of moral order leading to eternal life.it begins by transforming life and moral order from deities into trees, eliminating the cannibalistic imagery suggested by Atum/Adam eating his daughter.Then,Adam was specifically forbidden to eat the fruit of moral order. Next, adam was told that not only wouldn’t achieve eternal life if he ate of moral order but that he would actually die if he did eat it. Finally, Adam was expelled from the garden before he could eat from the tree of life and live eternity.

    Note here that the biblical emphasis is on knowledge of moral order not eternal life.

    It’s said that Jesus was an initiate and priest of the Egyptian religion. Everything Adam and Eve couldn’t do in the Garden of Eden (Egypt on the banks of the Nile) they can do in heaven. Jesus said we shall know the truth and its sets you free (John 8:32). This is an old saying in Egypt. “God is Maat (i.e Truth,law, order). He liveth through truth,he feedeth himself thereon. He is king of truth,whose truth maketh free the tongue”-from fetish to god in ancient Egypt By E.A.Wallis Budge. The Leaf from a tree was symbolic of the tongue in Egypt. If you were true of voice by Maat you got eternal life in Egypt. In Revelation more Books/Knowledge are opened up and the leaves from the trees are healing/life for mankind.

    Jesus/Horus said I’am the way,the truth,and the life” John14:6 Horus said the same thing thousands of years before this gospel was published. The quote proves Maat/Truth is life, eternal life. The Egyptian Amen said that before any substance was created truth was in existence. Heaven and earth and the Koran was created by truth (Koran 14:19)



    I have another essay pointing to Thoth as the Old and New Testament Devil. It should be noted Hathor was merged with Maat and Hathor is the female counterpart of Thoth. Thoth plays a vital role on judgement day. Thoth weighs our hearts and tongues of conscience and deeds up aganist a feather of truth called maat. “By your words you wilk be acquitted,and by your words you will be condemmed”Matthew 12:37 We are Judged according to Truth/Maat see Romans 2:2 And our words must be truth just like Jesus word is truth along with Sanctification/healing John 3:20-21 &17:17 And in the end we get to become “as one of us” in Genesis 3:22we were prevented from doing. Through truth/Maat “They also may be one in us that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”-John17:17-21. Everything in Genesis was a lie and Jesus/Horus rebuke this childish unwarranted attack upon the Egyptian religion;the mother of Christianity.

    Notes: In Egyptian theology everyone was a part of shu/tefnut

    Atum’s hand personfied the female principle inherent within him, and from this union, the divine pair, Shu and Tefnut arouse. The Hand was also symbolic of legal transfer to Egyptian throne/kingdom see Egyptian cosmology By b Moustafa Gadalla p101

    .When souls go to heaven/Kingdom either Horus or Hathor takes the souls by the crescent horns resembling hands after their voice/words become true on a scale of truth.

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH @ HAND” Luke 21:31

    Q. When Jesus said that his New Kingdom was near at hand was he in reference to the Egyptian Heb-Sed festival?
    A. Yes, Most likely
    1. Jesus use of the word Hand didn’t mean near because nigh/near was already stated.
    2. Egyptian Pharaohs/Kings would traditionaly hold Heb-Sed festivals to reconfirm/renew their claim to the throne/Kingdom. The Kings rejuvenated their powers at these mysterious festivals that included “serpent/sceptre rod” and “Hand ritual”.
    3. The Heb-Sed festivals were held at 30 year intervals which is precisely when Jesus began his ministry (Luke 3:23). In Egypt and Rome adultship was obtained at 30 years.The Egyptians incorporated Astrological/Magical knowledge into their Kingship. All Egyptians Kings were called “sun/son of God”. In the Zodiac, invented in Egypt, we have the “Sun of God” entering into each sign of the Zodiac at 30 degrees; hence, the Sun of God begins his ministry at age 30.
     
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