Black People : THE SELF HATERS: WHO ARE THEY???

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Isaiah, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In the thread on Black Women and White Supremacy, Sister Queenie asks a very interesting question... Her words, to the effect, ask why cannot a Black person(perhaps, other people of color as well)just be a trifling, no-good, selfish human being without having their bad character attributed to self-hatred and White Supremacy? I think her question is not only interesting, but quite legitimate...

    Earlier this week, Sister Destee pointed out that our lack of support can be attributed to our self-hatred, and I don't necessarily disagree with that assessment, but can it be legitimately argued that some folks don't fit into that scheme... Do some folks have legitimate reasons for not supporting Destee or other African-owned businesses, outside of what White Supremacy has created inside our minds? Do we, as African people, have legitimate reasons for killing another brother, refusing to house another brother, refusing to support and encourage another brother???

    In other words, other folks can just be trilfing, no-good, and no accouNt, and no one says, White Supremacy, or any other kind of brainwashing technique is at fault... How come Black people don't have the very same right to be judged in that way??? Aren't we human, posssessing all of the foibles and frailties as other members of the human species???? Some of what I've asked here is rhetorical, and I know it, but when we attribute to White Supremacy everything under the sun, what is at bottom of that??? I have oft felt there was some level of manipulation going on, how about you guys???



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  2. Blaklioness

    Blaklioness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother Isaiah....that all depends on what behavior you're talking about. White 'supremacy' can be attributed to some of our corrupt behaviors but perhaps not others. Our thinking and subsequent actions/attitudes about our Black physical image is one obvious example of the effect of the white 'supremacy' dynamic. However, qualities such as being obnoxious or arrogant may not be. Again, you'd have to think about what particular behavior or mode of thinking is being engaged in.
     
  3. Steve69

    Steve69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It’s just much easier that way. Site is about embracing. It’s not about improving which would involve discussing faults and changing. Also this would be much harder for most and require them to change which means take some action. To be true to the site is to blame whitey, or say what whites should do for us or give us. Then try to switch to a more positive note.
    Site is good to drop in sometimes for little fix of more positive feel. This helps sometimes to not get discouraged with all the negative and nobody wants to change. Example would be, we have about twice as many children as whites. We expect to raise them on the same amount of income and with one less parent and have the same quality. When we don’t have the same quality then we blame someone else for a different reason. Best post I have seen on this site is about “Blacks need a Culture War” but of course did not get much attention.
    What the site is about only describes a small % of black people. And is moderated to the beliefs of a small group. So should equal the paid memberships which I think was about 50 out of 11,000. Most believe we do have some problems and we need to change instead of excuses and taking the easy way out. Like any group of people or even a business, to improve you have to be willing to identify your true problems and do some work and take action. Not take all the time in a business meeting talking about how good the janitor cleans the windows while the rest of the business is facing bankruptcy. I myself like a lot, am unsure if the site does more good than bad which explains why the 50 out of 11000. It discourages any talk about faults. Just sit back, don’t change, don’t admit to any faults ( maybe we will get other races ignore the faults also), and blame whitey for everything and wait another 200 years for them to find a solution which does not involve us doing any work.
    It’s a small family site that censors or bans a lot of the tough questions or ones they don’t what to hear. I am sure there are trolls but this is used as an excuse to not address some issues. I am sorry if this post does not fit in with what the site is about. But this and the membership post is the second recent post to ask a question that you should not answer here. Don’t ask if you don’t like the answer or will use a moderator to delete it. Save time, post the question and the answer you require.
     
  4. Steve69

    Steve69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And yes did happen to have a bad day today. So please excuse if I went on too long.
     
  5. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Steve, there is no requirement on the length of any post. I'm sorry you had a bad day at work. It seems like it go to you. You lost me though when I read what you wrote. I'm not sure I understand your position or opinion on the topic of this thread. At one point I thought you were saying that "we" don't like to address tough issues here, which I would consider this to be one, but then you went on to state:

    I don't follow you so can you please explain what you meant?

    Thank you in advance.

    Queenie :spinstar:
     
  6. kente417mojo

    kente417mojo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well, my opinion is that black people love to label other black people. If someone doesn't walk the same line as you, there's something wrong with them. For someone to be labeled self-hating because they do not support a particular black business is absurd. Why don't we look at the fact that a black person may see little value in the business, maybe the business's customer service sucks or maybe (especially in the day and time) they simply don't have the available funds to do so. Yes, there are people who have self-hate, and then there are people that have different views than our own. We make ourselves seem as though we can't do anything without white supremacy manipulating us. We say on one hand that we are the brightest, most righteous, creative, moral, intelligent, beautiful, civilization creating people who ever walked the Earth, then we make dumb statements like "the white man made me do it" or "we're still suffering from slavery". As if anyone on this site has ever been a slave. We like to make excuses for things we don't understand and for things we don't want to take responsibility for.
     
  7. abstract219

    abstract219 ...standing on the shoulders of giants MEMBER

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    I agree strongly with Brother Isaiah and Kente above. Excellent points.
     
  8. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Who are the self-haters? I do believe that far too many of us are, though most won't admit it. To be honest, i don't think most are aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised if i had some self-hate in me, as the more i learn about myself and my people, and see how we've been used, abused, and mistreated for hundreds of years ... what once i considered normal ... is now another manifestation of the conditioning (self-hate) that i must work to overcome.

    When one hears the term "self-hate" it almost automatically means you are consciously aware that you are hating yourself, but i don't believe folk know. I think a better term would be "self-hate by proxy." (If i'm even using that term properly.) The self-hate has become our norm, and now we fight for what we've grown to know is normal. It is the norm that embodies the self-hate, not necessarily the individual. Once one begins to open their eyes and see, then they begin to look at themselves in a brand new way, and the initial viewing can be overwhelming and sad ... and can even encourage one to continue closing their eyes to the truth, as it is a harsh reality.

    Consider for a moment, the fact that it was suggested that the Katrina victims get psychological counseling, as a result of the initial days after the hurricane hit. Everyone instantly recognized the need to counsel these folk, as they had endured a horrendous experience. Never has anyone given Black folk any psychological counseling for the atrocities put upon us. We, our Ancestors, never received any of this. Matter of fact, we are often encouraged to quit talking about it, let it go, get over it, it's the past. Even our own people suggest this. I believe it's been coined as Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. It is real and should not be ignored. Brother OldSoul presented a class on this very topic, right here in our community.

    Take a Family, kill the Mother and Father, and raise the child as a slave. Do this generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation ... and then free the current generation ... well, partially free them ... as they will continue to experience systemic racism. Are those folk as able as other people of the world, who have been free to live their life to the fullest, passing down generation after generation of wisdom, knowledge, experience, and wealth? Are they at the same place as everyone else? Fast forward a few generations. Will this current generation manifest any of the atrocities put upon those before them, or is everyone in the world equal now? This is basically what has happened to us.

    Yes, we are a great people, and in spite of what has been upon us, we still rise ... but are we wounded ... have we internalized any of the weapons of mass destruction put on us?

    Any other people, all experiencing less devastation than Black folk in the world, have all been given kind considerations for what they went through. Not us. If we even fix our mouth to ask for like considerations, we are begging. We are asking for handouts. We are lazy, pitiful, and not willing to lift ourselves up from our bootstraps. Please.

    Yes, of course we have the bad amongst our people. Of course there will be Black folk killing Black folk, no matter what. Of course there will be liars, rapists, thugs, etc., but to the degree that we see it now ... if we hadn't historically experienced all that we have ... i don't think so. Remain immersed in water many hours of every day, your skin will show this. You don't like it, you go to your doctor complaining, look at my skin, it's horrible! Well, the doctor says, stay out of the water a few days, and let's see what your skin looks like then. Of course your skin will no longer appear as though it's been in water for hours. Now you may find you have some other skin conditions that need to be treated, but you've removed the greatest factor from the equation. That is what we need to do, remove the greatest factor from the equation, and then we can begin addressing the other issues we surely have ... but we can't really tell what's causing what, until we get out of the water ... get out of the systemic racism put upon us. It's hard to even evaluate the situation properly, while still immersed in the water / racism.

    As far as i'm concerned, until the playing field is level, until we have been given our just due, until we are treated world-wide as all other people, given the same considerations as others, we are simply looking at symptoms of the problem, and not the problem itself.

    Take a child that's been raped repeatedly by her Father. One day he decides to stop raping her, yet they continue to live in the same house. She goes to school, bathes everyday, dresses decently, marries, has children of her own ... yet never gets to address the violation put upon her ... never gets to speak of it ... never receives justice. Is she healed? What of this experience will she pass on to her children? You tell me.

    I'm a firm believer that until our issues are addressed properly, we will not be healed either. It's obvious that our oppressors, the United States government, corporate America, and all those who profited from our Ancestors free labor, will not address these things. It is up to us. We must talk about it, we must begin to recognize what impacts all of us, and move toward our own healing, without them if necessary.

    Of course folk are free to have their reasons for not financially supporting this community, and they are entitled to that. I have absolutely no problem with that, in and of itself. My concern grows, when i see these same folk here regularly, and not willing to help. If i felt so adamant about not supporting an effort, i surely would not frequent their establishment. That is not the case here. We have Sisters and Brothers that hold these feelings, yet continue to come. What is that about?

    I will continue to do this for as long as i can, alone if i must. I started alone. I was born alone. I will more than likely die alone. It's ironic to be surrounded by Black Folk that talk the talk, that we talk here, yet don't want to help. To me, that is clearly a manifestation of the atrocities put upon us. No other people have to beg like Black folk have to beg, for financial support from their own. This community is not the only place that this phenomena manifests itself. Ask any Black organization if they have trouble receiving financial support from their own, and you'll probably find the same situation. As a matter of fact, can you name any Black organizations thriving, right now today, as a direct result of financial support primarily from their own people? Historically and unfortunately, it has been other people ... non Black People ... that have stepped forward to start, fund and lead Black organizations. This is a sin and a shame. One that we must overcome, whether here or somewhere else. It has to happen.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  9. Mad Skillz

    Mad Skillz Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Who are the Self-haters? Those who emphatically fit the psychological disposition of a Ward Connerly and Clearance Thomas.
     
  10. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sister, you are being just too kind and understanding about our own people not supporting you here. Do you have proof that these members are not white?

    The sentiments in the last 2 paragraphs above are speaking to the heart of much of what ails grassroot efforts in our communities, our organizations, businesses, institutions, families, and so on. We are not going to be able to build and sustain anything if our own people are not going to support those of us who try to build. There's no excuse for this, so let's just face it and not back away from it because this is the crux of our situtation. Without adequate support, even the most glorious plan will wither and eventually just not survive.

    This is a problem I've observed for a lot of years among us, but imagine coming to a site where there are Black "conscious" people and it's the same problem here too. Of course, there are legitimate reasons among some people here for not contributing $10/month, maybe, but I believe that everyone here can contribute something. You mean, some people here can't even contribute 10 cents a month, not 10 dollars but 10 cents? Now 10 cents x 10,000 people is $1,000 dollars. I refuse to believe that some here can't contribute 10 cents a month.

    Sister, we are not helping our folks by allowing them to continue with these entitlement attitudes. This is a community, a village and it takes everyone's help to make the village work right. I'm going to stop here because maybe I've said too much, but I just had to say that.
     
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