Black People : The right side of the immigration debate

Full Speed

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Why must you continue being intellectually dishonest??? Those of us who oppose illegal immigrations realize that we need a certain number of foriegn workers. That fact is acknowledged by almost everyone I know how supports this law. You ignore the facts and real issues we bring up and twist it into being upset about the presence of "brownies"??? The PEOPLE realize that the politicians and business owners are playing a game, that is why the problem has not been resolved, THEY don't want it resolved. The PEOPLE do. The PEOPLE don't want all of the brown people to go away. Stop saying that or pretending that that is the issue, it's not. We just want common sense controls that bring in the appropriate number of legal immigrants with common sense controls that prevent those legal immigrants from being a burden to tax payers, law enforcement, and our health care system. These are legitimate concerns.

Are you suggesting that it is impossible to have controlled immigrations where a certain number of work permits are issued in accordance with the number of vacancies employers indicate? Are you suggesting that it is unreasonable for a soveriegn nation to impose limits on the number of non-citizens to control and enforce entry into the country by non-citizens? Are you suggesting that it does not matter to the PEOPLE that they see kidnapping and other crimes that stress/burden the law enforcement system by illegals, the health care expenses which burden hospitals, and other legitimate issues really don't matter because the only thing that matters to them is the fact that brown people are present in their midst???

Until you confront the issues rather than assigning your own motives to this situation, you are being simply dishonest and your credibility is very low. I suggest you give it a try. Speak directly to the issues. Speak to why California is BROKE, explain why "for profit" hospitals are having to take huge loses yet when they complain, rather than speak to it, you dismiss it as being race motivated. Explain why Pheonix, AZ is the Kidnapping capital of the world and how this extra burden upon law enforcement is just race motivated rather than a legitimate concern. Explain why the family of over 2,000 deaths each year through murder and drunk driving accidents from people who should not even be in this country are racially motivated to rather than legitimate complaints? STOP ASSIGNING YOUR OWN MOTIVE AND SPEAK TO WHAT IS BEING SAID. IT IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST.
He did not speak to the facts of this post at all....just sling a bunch of insults and declared his intellectual superiority.

He has not supported his claims but have assigned his own set of motives and dispute those motives without providing support for his chosen motives.
 

Full Speed

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Please tell me, what has he provided that supports his claim that the cost to california's economy is not substantial, problematic, and that the savings on groceries compensates for this substantial cost??????? I missed it, but you said it was there, so please point out his "support." NOTE: claims and name calling does not equate "support".


In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
 

Da Flash

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What people don't seem to get, is that the whole thing is a GAME. The politician comes out in front of the crowd and declares his disgust with the brownies and what he's gonna do about it. Everyone cheers - except the businessmen who financed his career. After the show, behind the stage, he tells his homeys, "don't worry, you'll have your workers."
If you can digest that reality, then things become much clearer. So after 9/11 and the creation of homeland security, the dynamic changed. The republican party has a problem, and that is that half of them are social reactionaries and the other have business. Their interests don't always mesh. the social reactionaries received a big boost by 9/11 and the new Homeland Security wanted to consolidate its power, so they went nuts attacking employers. Lots of crops rotted in the fields, meat packing facotries where shut down, etc. It was chaos. Those of us in the loop were amazed at the lack of organization of the business interests and that republican politicians were commiting suicide. So this went on for about two years. Notice how you haven't heard anything for quite a while. The repug politicos reigned in the rogue forces of homeland security. The game is back in play, but the dynamics are still contradictory. So within the glaring contradiction is where one must position himself to see clearly what is going on. WE NEED THESE WORKERS. Go to the dept. of labor website. they have data on projections of labor needs in all sectors. Serious shortages are predicted in the unskilled labor sector - they always have been, but it is predicted to get much worse. Policy is made from these types of data. But the social reactionaries, xenophobes, racists, religious fundamentalists, etc., are enjoying heightened power since the repugs relied on their ignorant arses to gain power. So the issue is front page. republicans don't want the issue front page. they want the status quo. Cheap, exploitable labor with out rights or protections. Both parties, government itself is worried about the predicted labor shortage. So unless there are millions of black folks just dying to get out there and scrub toilets, pick lettuce and gut chickens, the situation will continue. If you are worried about them taking jobs, then you should be against legal immigration, not illegal. At the University of Florida, there are around 5,000 visiting scholars. Those are real jobs, with real incomes.But the bottom line is, they shipped out the good jobs that built the african american middle class. factory union jobs. with benefits and pensions. those are the jobs we should be wanting back, not the one at taco bell or purdue chicken.
I can agree with you on the government not wanting or caring about the illegal going away because they serve as cheap unskilled(for the most part) labor. I just can't come to terms with having a law that says a thing is illegal and then just ignoring that law!! If the law is so outdated/unjust, why not abolish it already,to me that is when people would have to admit to their racism, because if we were talking about "LEGAL immigrants" what would be these peoples argument??

My biggest problem is with the sentences that I bolded, essentially you're saying/agreeing that We as Black people are lacking somehow in work ethic, desire, or ability to do menial labor that the Latinos have in abundence. If I misunderstood you please let me know. As stated before, I started working menial jobs and that's what got me to the union/middle class/career that I have now. If your position is that alot or most of us don't want to do that kind of work , not even temporarily then, I don't feel sorry for those who can't find work!! I know plenty of us that would rather stay home and get an unenjoyment check than work at a job that is "beneath them". If a person doesn't want to work a menial job for A REASONABLE WAGE, then they shouldn't get any other benefits i.e. welfare/unenjoyment (well unemployment is your money)!! Ok got a little off topic there but, I think that you see my point.

Just for clarification, what constitutes a real job or real money??
 

jamesfrmphilly

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an apology is in order

you're saying that We as Black people are lacking somehow in work ethic, desire, or ability to do menial labor that the Latinos have in abundance
i find that attitude coming from a person who is not black to be offensive and intolerable.
not only are they here to steal black jobs but they want to put us down in the process.
 

LindaChavis

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What a tangled web we weave...AZ has no clue what..

...they want.

Arizona's Immigration Two-Step

A fence along the Arizona's border with Mexico. (By Guillermo Arias -- Associated Press)

By Lee Hockstader
Monday, April 21, 2008

PHOENIX -- Traumatized by a tidal wave of illegal immigrants, Arizona last year enacted the nation's most pitiless law to punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Now state lawmakers, having proved that they mean business -- even if it means killing off businesses -- are reconnecting with reality: They want to import Mexican workers.

No state has been as unhinged by illegal immigration as Arizona, where by some estimates undocumented employees comprise up to 12 percent of the state's workforce of 3 million, more than twice the national average. They have also fueled Arizona's supercharged economy, which has grown faster -- and with less unemployment -- than almost anywhere else in the country.

Recently I visited the north Phoenix neighborhood of Palomino, which was virtually all white and Anglo 25 years ago. Today it is overwhelmingly Latino, teeming with taco joints and home to the city's only day-labor center.

"You drive around, you can't even read the store signs or the billboards," said James Cooney, a recently laid-off heavy equipment operator whom I found picketing outside the day-labor center with a group of like-minded protesters, some of them overtly racist. "It's an invasion."

That sentiment, plus Congress's failure to fix the nation's broken-down immigration system, contributed to a sort of legislative temper tantrum in Phoenix last summer. With little opposition, state lawmakers passed a bill to penalize firms that knowingly hire undocumented workers by suspending their business licenses for up to 10 days; on a second offense, the license is revoked.

The resulting outcry from companies warning of severe labor shortages prompted lawmakers to water down the bill somewhat, by, for instance, applying it only to workers hired after Jan. 1 of this year. But they kept some provisions businesses hated, including one allowing prosecutors to act on anonymous tips about undocumented workers.


The law had the desired effect. Immigrant neighborhoods in Phoenix started emptying out. Some employers called in suspect workers and fired those who admitted lacking proper documents. In Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who has cultivated an image as a Bull Connor for the nativist crowd, took the law as a green light to round up and harass Hispanics.

Just as satisfying to many of the law's advocates, Arizona companies rushed to register for E-Verify, the federal government's Internet-based system for checking the employment eligibility of newly hired workers. Now some 25,000 are signed up, more than in every other state combined. Lawmakers in Colorado, Georgia and elsewhere began drafting legislation modeled on the Arizona law.

But despite a jobless rate that is creeping higher, it has dawned on lawmakers that an enforcement-only strategy may inflict a lethal blow to state employers in agriculture, hospitality, construction and other industries, all of which have depended on a steady supply of low-skilled immigrant workers. And while the economic slowdown has somewhat eased the demand for workers, especially in construction, chances are slim that Arizona's economy will come roaring back without an adequate labor supply.

So now, with far less fanfare, the legislature is pushing through a measure calling for an Arizona-specific temporary guest-worker pilot program. The bill, which has bipartisan backing, would relieve labor shortages in certain industries by allowing qualifying companies to recruit workers in Mexico for a two-year term of employment. That would need congressional or federal approval, which, given recent history, may be problematic, to say the least.

In other words, having done its utmost to have undocumented Hispanics fired and driven from the state, Arizona has now decided it badly needs low-skilled labor after all. In both instances -- by getting tough with employers and by providing for a future supply of legal guest workers -- the state is trying to achieve what Congress could not.

That's the dilemma of the maddening national debate over immigration, which is torn between seemingly irreconcilable political forces: an anti-immigration camp that will brook no talk of amnesty to allow existing employees to stay; and employers whose growth, profits and, in some cases, existence depend on a reliable supply of cheap, low-skilled workers of the sort that have become scarce among native-born Americans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/20/AR2008042001755.html
 

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