Black People : The right side of the immigration debate

awo dino

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THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, FULLSPEED

Deportation Nightmare: Eduardo Caraballo, US Citizen Born In Puerto Rico, Detained As Illegal Immigrant

First Posted: 05-25-10 12:09 PM | Updated: 05-26-10 09:53 AM

Eduardo Caraballo, a U.S. citizen born in the United States, was detained for over three days on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
Despite presenting identifying documents and even his birth certificate, Caraballo was held by federal immigration authorities over the weekend and threatened with deportation, according to an NBC Chicago report. He was only released when his congressman, Luis Gutierrez -- a vocal supporter of immigration reform -- intervened on his behalf.
Caraballo was born in Puerto Rico, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States. He moved to the mainland as an infant, and now lives in Chicago.
Last week, NBC reports that he was arrested in connection with a stolen car in Berwyn. Caraballo maintains his innocence. In any case, when his mother posted bail on Friday, he was not freed.
"Instead of being released, he was told by authorities that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was detaining him because he was an illegal immigrant," NBC reports.
Caraballo spent the weekend in the custody of federal immigration agents. When he presented them with ID and his birth certificate, he says officials were skeptical: "Because of the way I look, I have Mexican features, they pretty much assumed that my papers were fake."
Only after his congressman interceded was Caraballo set free.
Rep. Gutierrez, a Chicagoan who is himself of Puerto Rican descent, is a long-time advocate of immigration reform. He was one of the first and loudest voices on the Hill to speak out against the Arizona immigration law, and he was recently arrested at a protest demanding fairer treatment for immigrants and their families.
"It gets worse," Gutierrez said in an interview. "We know of instances in which young people in his same situation are actually taken to the border and deported from the United States.
Not surprisingly, the nine-term Democratic congressman saw a disturbing connection to the situation in the Grand Canyon State.
"In Arizona, they want everybody to be able to prove they're legally in the country. They want everybody to prove that they're an American citizen. Here we had an American citizen, that the federal government... could not determine, for more than three days, his status as an American citizen. It's very, very, very dangerous ground to tread."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/25/deportation-nightmare-edu_n_588788.html
 

awo dino

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Arizona Immigration Law: Police Chiefs Say Crime Will Go Up If It Passes Anywhere Else

WASHINGTON — Police chiefs from around the country have told Attorney General Eric Holder that Arizona's new immigration law will divert law enforcement resources away from fighting crime.

In an hourlong, closed-door meeting with Holder, the chiefs have said that being forced to determine whether a person is in the United States illegally will break down the trust that police have built with communities.

One participant at the meeting, Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck, said the Arizona law and similar legislation proposed in other states will actually increase, rather than decrease, crime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/26/arizona-immigration-law-p_n_590122.html?view=print
 

awo dino

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Why conservatives should oppose Arizona's immigration law


By Connie Mack
Friday, May 28, 2010

America is at a crossroads on a number of issues. And as we tackle national concerns such as immigration, conservatives have a responsibility to commit ourselves to our philosophy of less taxing, less spending, less government and more freedom…
..The latest issue freedom-loving conservatives should be concerned about is the Arizona immigration law.
...This law clearly challenges citizens' freedoms, and it does so by putting some Americans at risk of losing their freedoms while others stand little or no chance of being affected...
…The Arizona immigration law reminds us of how fear and distrust can lead to bad laws and even more government overreach into the private sector and our private lives…
…But trampling on the rights of some Americans to protect the majority conflicts with the values our nation was founded upon...
...Our Constitution protects individual freedoms and liberties. Nowhere does this document speak of protecting the majority over the minority. Anger about the economy, increased crime and security concerns are fueling this law, not constitutional principles...
...Conservatives' most important responsibility is to remember to protect freedom, liberty and the rights of every citizen. The Arizona immigration law doesn't do that, and that's why I oppose it...

...As the wise saying goes, he who sacrifices freedom for security ends up with neither...
...I do not want to live in a nation where American citizens are asked "Where are your papers?" We are better than that...


The writer, a Republican, represents Florida's 14th District in the U.S. House.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2010/05/13/AR2010051304351.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
 

Full Speed

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Not everyone agrees that the county is better off since the law was enacted.

"Our county was severely hurt economically. Many, many people left this county," said Nancy Lyall of the group, Mexicans Without Borders. "Prince William County has had some of the biggest depreciation of homes of anywhere in this area."

Lyall says the law devastated Prince William County and continues to undermine public safety.
"People don't come forward to testify as witnesses," she said. "They're afraid to do that. They're afraid to report crime."

The issue is clearly divisive. While Stewart says Arizona's new law paves the way for a bright future, Lyall says Arizona is repeating its racist history. For years, it was criticized for not celebrating Martin Luther King Day as a holiday, setting off a nationwide boycott of the state.

"Black people know what Arizona did to them and now Latino people see what Arizona is trying to do to them," said Lyall. "And they see it's all based on race."

OOOPS! I imagine you were hoping no one would read the whole article.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/30/20100430arizona-immigration-law-virginia-law-similar.html#ixzz0owV9s52U
No....I just included the link for my health :boring::qqb019:

Dude, I said in the OP how I felt about Mexicans and Gays trying to piggy back on the "racism" bandwagon:

Hmmmmmm???? It seems everyone wants to piggy back the success of those who made racism unacceptable and a political death blow. The gays are doing it, now the Mexicans are trying to make restricting their access to go and come into another nation and to gain access to that nations health care, and other resources paid for by the tax payers of that nation about racism.

Do you really expect that words from the likes of Nancy Lyall to do anything but CONFIRM my belief that this it true? The very name of her organization says it ALL: MEXICANS WITHOUT BORDERS

Her AGENDA is so transparent it is unreal. She do not want America to have the right and ability to control its own immigrations levels. Why on earth would any American listen to somebody from an organization called MEXICANS WITHOUT BORDERS??!!?? 80% of the residents from Prince William County support their law and think it was successful but someone from MEXICANS WITHOUT BORDERS claimed it "Devastated" the area. :SuN049: LOLROF
 

Full Speed

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THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, FULLSPEED

Deportation Nightmare: Eduardo Caraballo, US Citizen Born In Puerto Rico, Detained As Illegal Immigrant

First Posted: 05-25-10 12:09 PM | Updated: 05-26-10 09:53 AM

Eduardo Caraballo, a U.S. citizen born in the United States, was detained for over three days on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
Despite presenting identifying documents and even his birth certificate, Caraballo was held by federal immigration authorities over the weekend and threatened with deportation, according to an NBC Chicago report. He was only released when his congressman, Luis Gutierrez -- a vocal supporter of immigration reform -- intervened on his behalf.
Caraballo was born in Puerto Rico, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States. He moved to the mainland as an infant, and now lives in Chicago.
Last week, NBC reports that he was arrested in connection with a stolen car in Berwyn. Caraballo maintains his innocence. In any case, when his mother posted bail on Friday, he was not freed.
"Instead of being released, he was told by authorities that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was detaining him because he was an illegal immigrant," NBC reports.
Caraballo spent the weekend in the custody of federal immigration agents. When he presented them with ID and his birth certificate, he says officials were skeptical: "Because of the way I look, I have Mexican features, they pretty much assumed that my papers were fake."
Only after his congressman interceded was Caraballo set free.
Rep. Gutierrez, a Chicagoan who is himself of Puerto Rican descent, is a long-time advocate of immigration reform. He was one of the first and loudest voices on the Hill to speak out against the Arizona immigration law, and he was recently arrested at a protest demanding fairer treatment for immigrants and their families.
"It gets worse," Gutierrez said in an interview. "We know of instances in which young people in his same situation are actually taken to the border and deported from the United States.
Not surprisingly, the nine-term Democratic congressman saw a disturbing connection to the situation in the Grand Canyon State.
"In Arizona, they want everybody to be able to prove they're legally in the country. They want everybody to prove that they're an American citizen. Here we had an American citizen, that the federal government... could not determine, for more than three days, his status as an American citizen. It's very, very, very dangerous ground to tread."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/25/deportation-nightmare-edu_n_588788.html
Based upon this situation, you should support the Arizona law. (I am 100% sure you won't see it that way though) This case happened in Illinois. They do not have the "Arizona Law". So essentially, this type of case can occur anywhere in the country. At least the Arizona law specifically forbids racial profiling and have punitive consequences for violation of that law. Caraballo has no specific written protections other than the constitution itself.....At least under the Arizona Law, Caraballo would have the protection of the statute itself AND the constitution. If this were to occur under the Arizona law, chances are the parties that held him after he presented his identyfing documents and birth certificates would be on the hot seat and Caraballo would have a law suit that strongly favors him. Without the Arizona law, as this occured in Illinois, he has no real legal recourse.
 

jamesfrmphilly

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mexican steal black jobs,,,,,,,

Carpentry: A job Americans 'won't do'?


By Stu Bykofsky
Philadelphia Daily News


FRAMED BY a brilliant blue sky, Joshua was on the roof, driving nails in a home rising at the Villages at Buckingham in Bucks County when a black Mercury Grand Marquis pulled up.
Four men got out and one hailed Joshua in the Portuguese of his Brazilian homeland.

The men were not from Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE never shows up at local work sites, say the guys I'm riding with, from Philadelphia's carpenters' union, Local 1073, which covers residential construction.

To check that out, I call and ask about the number of job-site arrests made around here. ICE spokesman Richard Roacha says arrests are not broken down by region or by industry. Enforcement is "centered on employers," he adds. That's good, but not having local or industry numbers is bad. Inexplicable, really.

Three or four times a week, Local 1073 guys visit construction sites to gather information, educate workers and cajole nonunion, but legal, workers into joining the union to get better pay, benefits and protection.

Union business agent Mark Durkalec, 47, is driving the Grand Marquis, with me riding shotgun. In the back seat are union representative Bill Dykan, 47, and carpenter Anilson Borgas, 46, who translates when necessary.

A Brazilian who became an American citizen in 2003 - it took almost five years and $3,000 in lawyers' fees - Borgas takes the unregulated arrival and employment of his former countrymen personally. It is an attack on his livelihood, his family, his rights as an American citizen.

In Buckingham, when Borgas asks Joshua whom he works for, Joshua squints and looks at the sky.

He doesn't know.

Another man on the site says two of the men pay taxes, the four others don't.

Joshua's confusion is understandable, since he works for a subcontractor and is likely falsely classified as an independent contractor. That means he gets no protection due employees and probably pays no taxes.

"We say illegal workers. It's really illegal employers," says Dykan, a guy with a priest's easy ability to talk with anyone.




On "Good Day, Philadelphia" a few weeks back, Councilwoman Maria Quinones-Sanchez spoke on behalf of illegal workers, parroting the tired cliche that they do only jobs Americans won't.

Quinones-Sanchez crossed a line when she added, "I do not foresee a union carpenter going out to work the fields."

Maybe union carpenters won't do field work, but they will do carpentry, and those jobs are being sucked up by the undocumented workers who accept lower pay than any American would - or should.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20100527_Stu_Bykofsky__Carpentry__A_job_Americans__won_t_do__.html#axzz0pEbGMTSb
 

Full Speed

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My point is that:

1) We must be allowed, as every other nation in the world, to enforce immigration laws....None of this "MEXICANS WITHOUT BORDERS" garbage.

2) The Arizona law is not the comprehensive answer.

3) The federal government is responsible for the comprehensive solution.

4) The Arizona law will encourage the federal government to act.

5) The issue with Carabello is not unique at all and short of comprehensive reform, will continue to occur with or without the Arizona law.

"This individual was held in local law enforcement custody over the weekend on an ICE detainer based on initially available information that he was an alien subject to deportation. ICE took custody of him on Monday morning and released him within one hour, after his identity was verified, and the ICE detainer was canceled."

But such incidents are not unusual, said Stevens, who went through the files of an immigration and refugee rights project and found that 82 cases -- 1 percent of the total -- involved U.S. citizens, most of whom had been held for three months to a year.

That would translate to 4,000 of the 400,000 people detained last year by ICE, Stevens said. She also tracked 30 cases since 2003 where ICE went a step further and deported U.S. citizens, she said. In one case, it took a man wrongfully deported to Jamaica a decade to put together the paperwork to return to the United States, she said.


I fully understand that immigration control will be imperfect and that that imperfection will more often than not effect non-white people. ( I cannot, in good faith, consider that a reason to simply say "hey, once they are in the country illegally, don't mess with them because 1% of the people you detain will be legal residents or citizens.) I do not believe in open borders and I do not support the ability of illegal immigrants to think they don't have anything to worry about once they make it past the fence)
 

Full Speed

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Another man on the site says two of the men pay taxes, the four others don't.
Joshua's confusion is understandable, since he works for a subcontractor and is likely falsely classified as an independent contractor. That means he gets no protection due employees and probably pays no taxes.

"We say illegal workers. It's really illegal employers," says Dykan, a guy with a priest's easy ability to talk with anyone.




On "Good Day, Philadelphia" a few weeks back, Councilwoman Maria Quinones-Sanchez spoke on behalf of illegal workers, parroting the tired cliche that they do only jobs Americans won't.

Quinones-Sanchez crossed a line when she added, "I do not foresee a union carpenter going out to work the fields."

Maybe union carpenters won't do field work, but they will do carpentry, and those jobs are being sucked up by the undocumented workers who accept lower pay than any American would - or should.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20100527_Stu_Bykofsky__Carpentry__A_job_Americans__won_t_do__.html#axzz0pEbGMTSb
But they save us money on our grocery bill......don't that count for something. :em3400:
 

Full Speed

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...I do not want to live in a nation where American citizens are asked "Where are your papers?" We are better than that...
Then Connie should resign and move to Mexico.....oh, that's right, they have strict immigration laws down there.

So, it's ok to ask "Where is your drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance" in connection with a traffic stop or other police action, but if those documents are used to verify legal driving status AND legal residency, she don't want to live in a nation that enforces its laws? If that is her standard for not wanting to live in a certain place, I'd venture to say that Connie probably cannot find a place on earth where she would "want to live".
 

awo dino

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Then Connie should resign and move to Mexico.....oh, that's right, they have strict immigration laws down there.

So, it's ok to ask "Where is your drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance" in connection with a traffic stop or other police action, but if those documents are used to verify legal driving status AND legal residency, she don't want to live in a nation that enforces its laws? I'd venture to say that Connie probably cannot find a place on earth where she would "want to live".
You are something else. A drivers license does not prove citizenship, nor does a library card, proof of insurance, etc. I know you understand this, and if you don't go back and read the article on the experience of Eduardo Caraballo. It can take days to establish a person's citizenship.

if you cannot see that this law provides an undue burden on Americans who "look" Mexican, you are lacking intelligence. I am an American of Puerto Rican descent. When growing up in California, many times people yelled at me (as they drove by), "%@*%&$ Mexican!" So it is possible that driving through Arizona I would be forced to prove my citizenship. How do I do that? A DRIVERS LICENSE DOES NOT PROVE CITIZENSHIP.
 

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