Black People : The Real Atlantis (Western Africa)

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Shango Sage, May 5, 2014.

  1. Shango Sage

    Shango Sage Member MEMBER

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    The Real Atlantis (Western Africa)

    It is time for “Black Americans” and the people of the African diaspora to begin referring to ourselves by a name more befitting of our truest cultural, ethnic and geographical identify. When naming and identifying the people of Alkebulan (Africa) now residing in the Americas [Black Americans] however we encounter the difficulty that the trans-Atlantic slave trade has presented. Economic prisoners (slaves) taken from Alkebulan were not taken from a single country or ethnic group. Economic prisoners of Alkebulan were taken from an untold number of ethnic groups, some of which include the Yoruba, Igbo, Ashanti, Mandinka, Ewe, Wolof, and many more. Although each of these names would be proud and magnificent names from which to identify ourselves, our specific history and lineage does not allow us to be quite so culturally and linguistically specific.


    Today, we as Africans in America have absorbed nearly every ethnic group in the world into our genealogy, including ethnic groups from Europe, Asia, and Latin America and everywhere else into our gene pool. Despite this fact however we still refer to ourselves as “Black Americans”, and have not largely begun to refer to ourselves as Koreans, Germans, or Native Americans simply because we have small amounts of other genes in our gene pool. THE SIMLE AND OBVIOUS FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE AS BLACK AMERICANS LARGELY CAME FROM ONE SINGLE REGION OF AFRICA AND POSSESS ONLY SMALL AMOUNTS FROM OTHER PARTS OF AFRICA IN OUR GENEALOGY. The part of Africa (Alkebulan) where our indigenous language groups come from, where our specific spiritual traditions come from, where our most specific heritage and genealogy comes from is WESTERN AFRICA – A GEOGRAPHICALLY, CULTURALLY, AND ETHNICALLY SPECIFIC REGION THAT THE ANCIENT GREEKS REFERRED TO AS “ATLANTIS.”


    I’m truly not sure why our Africentric scholars have 1) not become aware of this fundamental fact, and/or 2) not made this fact known to all of us, but even just a small amount of research will reveal this fact to be obviously true. The western cape of Africa, the giant bulge that sticks out of the West side of Africa into the “Atlantic” ocean, was referred to by many Greek scholars including Plato, Herodotus, and Diodorus Siculus as “Atlantis,” and the people of this region, today called “West Africans,” were referred to as the "Atlanteans" - the people who lived in the region of Atlantis (Atlas.) Cheik Anta Diop, Dr. Yosef Benjachanaan, Dr. Henrik Clarke, and many others have made it clear to us that the Europeans have attempted to erase the Black African history of Kemet (Egypt,) but our scholars have yet to give serious attention and study to the real history of West Africa (Atlantis,) and have therefore neglected to aid us in identifying a more potent and distinct ethnic and cultural identity for the Black American. There is simply a mountain of easily researchable evidence indicating the fact that we are indeed the Atlanteans that Plato, Diodorus Siculus and others have spoken of, and I will be adding more and more evidence as we go along. The simple fact is THAT EUROPEANS HAVE DONE MORE TO HIDE THE FACT THAT BLACK AMERICANS ARE ATLANTEANS THAN THEY HAVE TO HIDE THE FACT THAT EGYPT WAS “BLACK,” because they of course realize that this specific kind of self-knowledge is even more powerful, and I will begin to show you why.


    Fact 1:


    The terms “Atlantis” and “Atlantic” are derived from the name “Atlas,” and are referring to the Atlas Mountain Range in Northwestern Africa. This fact is common knowledge and any quick search from any source (encyclopedia, Wikipedia, libraries, etc.) will tell you this simple fact. The Atlas Mountains were deified by the Ancient Greeks as being the physical symbol of the god “Atlas,” the big strong Greek god that carries the world on his shoulders. Because Atlas was the Greek god of navigation and astronomy, we get the word “Atlas” today, which refers to a collection of maps. The Merriam Webster Dictionary will tell you that the words “Atlantis” or “Atlantean” were derived from the word “Atlas,” and the Encyclopedia Britannica will tell you that the Greek god “Atlas” was commonly associated with the Atlas Mountain Range in Northwestern Africa. Atlanteans are referred to as the people who live in the vicinity of Atlas (the Atlas Mountain Range in northwestern Africa.) Even the History channel admits in a roundabout way that Atlas was associated with Africa by depicting the god Atlas who holds the world on his shoulders as a black man in their recent video about Hercules. [You can find Black Atlas on the History Channel’s “Clash of the Gods - Episode 2 – Hercules” at minute 37:25 on Youtube.]


    Fact 2:


    Ancient Greek maps of the world made by historians and geographers like Herodotus (485 – 425 BC,) Posidonius (135 – 51 BC,) and Dionysius Periegetes (117–138 AD) all indicate Atlantis (spelled “Atlantes") as being located in the Western portion of Africa. The ancient Greeks did not have a very good idea of the geography of the entire world, and they did not know of North or South America, did not know of Australia, did not know of Europe north of Germany, and did not know of the Southern part of Africa. The ancient Greek maps are therefore shaped strangely, and indicate the regions of East and West Africa, but do not give an indication of the southern part of Africa. The ancient Greeks literally thought that the Western edge of the world was the coast of West Africa, and that the Eastern edge of the world ended at India. Despite the fact that the ancient Greek maps give no indication of Southern Africa at all, the maps clearly indicate “Atlantes” as being located in the Western portion of Africa. I invite you to do a simple Google search of “ancient greek map of the world”and you will see the word “Atlantes” in the western portion of Africa on many of the maps. Understand however that ancient maps were made by many different people, and therefore some maps mention “Atlantes” by name, and others don’t. But on the maps that do specifically mention Atlantis by name, it is always located in the Western portion of Africa and never anywhere else. The location of Atlantes was common knowledge to the Ancient Greeks, and their maps will demonstrate this. Make sure to look through at least 7 or 8 ancient Greek maps and you will see the word “Atlantes” indicated on many of the maps, but not all of the maps. Make sure you look at the “funny” shaped ancient Greek maps, because these are the ones made by ancient people. The “modern” looking maps will certainly fail to list any mention of Atlantis at all.


    Fact: 3


    Plato was the first Greek (European) to record a history of Atlantis, and in his writings he makes it specifically clear that Atlantis (West Africa) in ancient times was 1) the most wealthy and powerful imperial empire in the ancient world, and 2) specifically mentions that the empire of Atlantis (West Africa) had conquered much of Africa including parts of Libya and Egypt, and conquered much of Western Europe including Spain, Italy, and Greece.


    Fact 4:


    In his extensive writings about Atlantis, Plato specifically says that Atlantis (West Africa) was the wealthiest civilization in the world, and theorized that Atlantis (West Africa) was so incredibly wealthy that is was possibly even the wealthiest civilization that will ever exist. He even says specifically that the main reason for the Atlanteans’ (West African’s) unbelievable wealth was due to three things 1) fabulous metal wealth [gold, copper, etc.,] 2) extensive trade networks, and 3) an incredibly lush land full of every kind of edible plant, medicinal herb, and both tame and wild animals, also specifically mentioning that Atlantis (West Africa) had a very large supply of elephants. – To this day Atlantis (West Africa) is still like this, and the Ghana, Mali, and Songhai imperial empires of West Africa were as equally wealthy in trade and gold as Plato so accurately described. In fact, Mansu Musa, a famous West African (Atlantean) king of Mali in 1300 AD was recently identified by Forbes magazine as being the richest man who ever lived, with an estimated personal net worth $400 billion, far outstripping the current richest man in the world, Carlos Slim Helu, who is estimated to be worth $69 billion today. [And Mansa Musa is certainly not either the wealthiest or most powerful king in the history of Atlantis (West Africa.)]


    Fact 5:


    Plato specifically states that he is giving a history of the civilization of Atlantis (West Africa) as having existed in approximately 9,600 BC (9,000 years before the time of Solon - in Plato's own words.) I find this fact interesting because I have found in my personal research of the “history” of West Africa that the dates given for the empires and civilizations of West Africa are entirely inaccurate. For example, historians have universally acknowledged the Empire of Ghana as being the first major empire of West Africa, and date this empire at around 800 AD, but often admit that 1) there had been complex societies that existed in West Africa (Atlantis) thousands of years before this time, 2) 800 AD was not the beginning of the Empire of Ghana, but was simply the time period when Arab travelers discovered it, and 3) the Mende writing and language called the “Vai Syllabary” is a complex West African written script that has been found on the Olmec ruins in Mexico dating at least as far back as 1200 BC., and is also found on rock inscriptions all over the West African portion of the Sahara desert dating as far back as 3000 BC. [Racists Europeans linguists of today trying to hide the history of ancient African writing systems are even trying to say that this complex West African (Atlantean) writing system was only invented in the 1800’s, about 200 years ago!]


    Fact 6:


    Plato and Diodorus Siculus gave many landmarks and indicators (mountains, lakes, neighboring ethnic groups, cities, plant and animal species, etc.) that were specifically mentioned as having been located in the vicinity of Atlantis, and all of these landmarks and indicators are located in North and Western Africa. All of the following landmarks were mentioned by various ancient Greek writers as being in and around Atlantis, and a simple Google search will reveal that each and every one of them are in and around Western Africa:

    1. The Pillars of Hercules (the two mountains known as the Straits of Gibraltar)

    2. Lake Tritonis

    3. The Atlas Mountain Range

    4. The Garden of the Hesperides

    5. The Western Ethiopians (another word for "Western Africans")

    6. The Libyans

    7.The Garamantes and the Nasamones

    8. Gadeiros (Agadir)

    9. The Atlantic Ocean

    10. The Edge of Oceanus
    11. Fabulous metal wealth (gold, copper, etc.)
    12. A large supply of elephants
    13. An extensive culture of horsemanship
    14. Extravagant palaces
    15. Magnificent walled cities
    16. Erroneously thought to be a series of islands by the ancient Greeks
    17. River and sea routes to the interior that were destroyed by a series of earth quakes

    [All of these features and landmarks are found in and around West Africa, and many of these features and landmarks are found "only" in West Africa.]


    Fact 7:


    Pliny the Elder specifically indicates with precise geographical descriptions that the Western cape of Africa, the large geographical "bulge" that sticks out to the west of the continent of Africa commonly called "West Africa,) was called Atlantis.


    Fact 8:


    In his writing Plato says exactly how the story of the history of Atlantis was transferred to him. He states specifically that Egyptian priests living during the time of Solon (600 BC) transferred the story to Solon (the famous Greek Lawgiver who visited Egypt,) who then told the story to the great grandfather of Critias (a contemporary of Plato,) who passed the story down to his great grandson Critias, who then passed the story on to Plato. Even though the history of Atlantis had come down to Plato from so many earlier sources, Plato's accounts of Atlantis (Western Africa) are amazingly accurate, but there are indeed some mistakes in Plato’s account of Atlantis (West Africa.) The most glaring and obvious mistakes in Plato’s account of Atlantis are 1) that Atlantis was an island, and 2) that the civilization was sunken into the sea by a catastrophic earthquake. European researchers know fully well that Atlantis was not located on an island, and that it was not sunken into the sea by earthquakes. Studies about the Saharan region of Africa make it very clear what actually happened and how Plato naturally made this famous mistake, but they also do their best to keep this information from the general public. I will go into specific geological detail about Plato’s account of Atlantis being on an island and sunken into the sea by earthquakes at a later time.



    Europeans have specifically tried to hide the real and actual history of West Africa (Atlantis) by 1) popularizing the aspects of Plato’s account of Atlantis that are known to be clearly mistaken, and 2) making Atlantis seem as if it were some sort of fictitious fantasy story. Thanks mainly to Hollywood and the internet, people of today think of Atlantis as some sort of fantasy place full of mermaids and sea monsters. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop letting these racist and oppressive people get away with this deliberate attempt to suppress our history and heritage. PLEASE take some time away from your studies about Egypt and the Hebrew Bible to focus on ATLANTIS – the part of Africa that indicates truly who and what we are. ATLANTIS (WESTERN AFRICA) WAS FAR MORE WEALTHY AND MILITARILY POWERFUL THAN EGYPT EVER WAS OR WILL BE. The architecture, trade systems, material wealth, writing systems, traditional cultures, cosmologies, and military power of the various civilization of Atlantis (Western Africa) were absolutely remarkable, greater than Kemet (Egypt) even. Why do we spend so many time talking about the lesser parts of our heritage (Moorish, Hebrew, Egyptian) when our unquestionably dominant heritage (Atlantis) was provably greater and more impressive than any other lesser aspect of our African heritage?


    We will set ourselves firmly on the road to “true” progress when we begin to properly identify and embrace our truest and greatest heritage and identity. As Black Americans we are a conglomerate of dozens or perhaps even scores of West African ethnicities, and the only known word to describe the West African as a single unitary group is ATLANTEAN! Alkebulan (Africa) is divided into 4 main regions – north, east, west, and south, and each of these regions are ethnically and culturally distinct from each other. As Atlanteans (Western Africans) we need to learn about the specific ethnicities, cultures, and heritage of West Africa (Atlantis,) because they are wonderfully distinct from every other part of Africa. I will begin to name a few of the distinctions of Atlanteans from every other part of Alkebulan (Africa,) and from every other place in the world.


    1. Virtually all Africans preferred trade empires to military empires, but the empires of Atlantis (Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Yoruba, etc.) tended to be more imperial and aggressive than other parts of Africa, often seeking to expand their lands and territories as far and wide as possible.


    2. West Africa (Atlantis) has far more wealth than any other part of Africa or even the world. During the time of Mansa Musa for example, the Mali Empire of Western Africa (Atlantis) was supplying over half of the world’s supply of salt and gold by itself, and the Mali Empire was one of many empires in Atlantis (Western Africa!)


    3. The Atlantean (West African) and the Ethiopian/Kemetic (Eastern African) civilizations were quite similar to each other, but there are some definite cultural differences. One main difference between these two great regions of Alkeulan is the architectural focus of these civilizations. As you may have noticed, the Ethiopian/Kemetic civilizations focus their greatest architectural efforts on their temples and their monuments. The Ethiopian/Kemetic temples and monuments were fashioned in the absolutely grandest design possible, and we have all become intimately familiar with their temples, pyramids, and other monuments. The Great Pyramid of Khufu for example is said to have taken 20 years to build, and an untold amount of money to build (perhaps the equivalent of billions of dollars in ancient Kemet.) We must remember that these ancient civilizations were "real" places with "real" economies where "real" people lived, who had "real" bills to pay. Considering the economic stresses and strains of life in any time period, imagine if President Obama announced that he was sequestering upwards of a billion dollars to build a giant monument in the middle of the country. Money didn’t grow on trees in ancient Kemet any more then than it does now. In fact, the Pharoah Akhenaten is often criticized, and was possibly even assassinated for spending huge amounts of Egyptian money on building an entire city for his monotheistic cult city in the middle of the Egyptian desert, and spending so much time with religious practices that he neglected the proper running of the country which soon went into political and economic decline. The king and queens of Western Africa (Atlantis) had a different architectural focus than the Egyptians, but certainly no less grand. The kings and queens of Atlantis put their greatest efforts into 1) their royal palaces, and 2) their city designs, especially their city defenses and fortifications. As I’ve stated earlier, West Africa (Atlantis) had the most wealth in the world by far, and therefore the kings of West Africa (Atlantis) created very elaborate fortifications to defend their cities. The defensive walls around precolonial Benin City, located in Southern Nigeria, were so extensive that they are recorded as being the 2nd largest engineering project in world history, second only to the Great Wall of China. Benin City, along with the surrounding suburban communities, was simply huge, larger than almost every city and metropolitan area in the world today, larger than San Francisco, Washington DC, Rome, Bejing, Rio De Janeiro, and most other major cities today. In fact, there are only 6 city metropolitan cities today that are larger than Benin City was in pre-colonial times, and a series of defensive walls were built around not only central Benin City proper, but also around every one of the surrounding suburban areas which stretched out for miles. At the center of a typical West African (Atlantean) city was the palace compound which was basically a smaller city in itself. The palace compounds of West Africa (Atlantis) were so large that West African (Atlantean) kings had their own entire royal citizenry inside their palace compounds, and would normally only leave their palace compound mini-cities on special festival holidays. The palace compound of Benin City, for example, was described by European travelers as being certainly as large as the town of Harlem in New York. The Ashanti palace compound in the Ashanti capital city of Kumasi in precolonial Central Ghana was described by the British and being as equally large and impressive. Atlanteans (Western Africans) also built temples and monuments of course, but their temples for example tended to be much more like a typical Black Baptist church of today – nice and quaint, of a moderate size, and built for a practical and functional use. West African (Atlantean) houses however tended to be more impressive and elaborately designed than the average Egyptian house, which is the reason why we rarely if ever see pictures of traditional Egyptian style houses on the internet – they truly not impressive compared to the house designs of much of the rest of Africa, especially West Africa (Atlantis,) and you can look them up if you don't believe me. [the Nubian houses in the southern part of Egypt tended to be much more impressive than the Egyptian as well.] If you want to compare trying looking up traditional Ashanti style houses (especially in Kumasi,) traditional Hausa houses (Northern Nigeria,) traditional Mali houses in Tumbuktu, Segou, Gao, Jenne, and Bamako, etc. Just like any other place, Alkebulan (Africa) was made up of highly urban areas and more rural areas. The media only shows us the simple houses of the moral rural parts of Africa, but conspicuously neglects to show us the highly urbanized parts of Africa such as the great cities such as Kumasi, Benin, Ile Ife, Kano, Jenne, Timbuktu, Carthage, Segou, Gao, Meroe, Napata, Axum, and many others. So while the Egyptians/Ethiopians put their greatest money and effort into their temples and monuments, the Atlanteans (West Africans) put their best architectural efforts into their palaces, city designs (housing, military fortifications, markets, etc.,) and wealth generating economics. All in all, I would say that research would reveal that the citizenry on every level (royalty, nobility, and common citizenry) of the average urbanized culture in Western Africa (Atlantis) lived more comfortably than the Egyptian citizenry of the same time, and they were almost certainly more materially wealthy.


    4. The civilizations and empires of Western Africa (Atlantis) were far more militarily powerful than other parts of Africa, and most of the rest of the world. [Ancient Egypt on the other hand was conquered by everybody and their mother - Hyksos, Hittites, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, French, English, etc.] Although West Africa (Atlantis) had the most gold in the world (by far!!!) the other super powers of the ancient world (Rome, Greece, Arabia, etc.) couldn’t touch our fatherland. Greece knew exactly where all the gold was, but after sending expeditions down to West Africa they knew they didn't stand a chance militarily so they never attempted an invasion, despite the fact that all of that gold in West Africa was only a stone's throw from both Rome and Greece. In fact, many peoples would run to different parts of West Africa to escape the Roman Empire, because everybody knew Rome couldn’t touch the West Africans (Atlanteans.) The Arabs knew of the ridiculous amounts of gold in Atlantis (Western Africa) and therefore decided to attack but didn’t get very far at all. The Arabs however were able to convert many Black West Africans to Islam, and unified Black Islamic West Africans (Atlanteans) began to attack and defeat other Black West Africans (Atlanteans) who were not part of the "brotherhood of Islam." History also tells us that Western Europeans reached the shores of West Africa (Atlantis) in the 1400’s, nearly 100 years before they even discovered America, and of course they saw the tremendous amounts of gold, ivory, and other wealth in Western Africa (Atlantis). [They even referred to Ghana as “The Gold Coast, and Cote D’Ivoire as the “Ivory Coast” because of the tremendous wealth of gold and ivory there.] The Portuguese, English, and French however did not attack and invade wealthy West Africa (Atlantis) like they did everywhere else, but instead decided to build trade forts along the shores of West Africa and trade for things like gold, ivory, spices, and eventually slaves with the West African empires. Western Europeans became wealthy by trading with Atlanteans (West Africans,) but why trade for things when you could simply invade and take the resources for free? Answer: West Africa (Atlantis) was simply too powerful at the time, so they decided to travel half way around the world invading, attacking, and conquering everybody else. Europeans attacked and defeated the Central and South American civilizations (Aztecs, Incas, etc.) in the 1500’s, attacked and defeated the empires of India in the 1700’s, attacked and defeated the empires of China and Japan in the mid 1800’s, but did not attack and defeat the dominant civilizations of West Africa (Mende, Ashanti, Benin, Dahomey, etc.) until the end of the 1800’s, and were not able to defeat many West Africans (Atlanteans) without the use of World War I caliber modernized weaponry such as the Maxim machine gun which could fire 600 rounds a minute. The Spanish, English, Portuguese, and French were able to defeat everybody else (Incas, Aztecs, Empires of India, China, and Japan) with Civil war style muskets which could only fire 3 or 4 shots per minute, but these same empires couldn't defeat the major empires of West Africa (Atlantis) until they developed World War I caliber weaponry like the Maxim Machine Gun and other heavy artillery. For the most part, simple muskets didn't stand a chance against many of the more powerful empires of West Africa (Atlantis) who also either manufactured or traded for their own muskets as well. The fabulous precolonial West African metropolis city of “Benin” in Southern Nigeria for example wasn’t defeated by British forces until 1897, and the Ashanti Empire of Ghana won many wars against the British Empire and was not formally defeated by the British until 1901. The Ashanti Empire was the wealthiest and most powerful civilization in Ghana (called the “Gold Coast” by the British,) and the British had tried to attack the Ashanti Empire for roughly 100 years but they were finally defeated. The country of Ghana today officially records that they fought somewhere between 11 and 15 formal wars starting around 1800 against the British Empire before they were finally defeated in 1901 a hundred years later. The Ashanti won every war against the powerful British Empire except for the last, but the British Government and European scholarship likes to downplay what they refer to the as the “Anglo-Ashanti” wars, and only admit to fighting 4 wars against the Ashanti, and officially claim that that results of the wars against the Ashanti that they didn’t win as coming to an “inclusive” end. Other wars against major West African empires such as the Mandingo in Mali and Dahomey in Benin had similar victories against both the British and French military forces, but yet again "history" completely ignores these examples of West African power and strength. Long story short, West Africa (Atlantis) was what you could call "the last man standing" when the ravaging pack of wolves known as the European Colonial powers were running all over the world taking everything they could. Our ancestors won more wars and maintained their wealth, power, and way of life longer than any other civilization in the world. But it is up to us to tell our story, the story of West Africa (Atlantis,) because the academic circles of Europe, America, and the rest of the world never will.



    It would take 100 lifetimes to speak adequately about the real history of West Africa (Atlantis,) and I could certainly talk about our magnificent culture and heritage all day, but I’ll stop here for now and continue another time. It has become our habit as Black Americans to research and talk about Egypt (Kemet) and the Hebrew Bible almost incessantly, but I have virtually stopped this kind of research and discussion altogether, and have shifted almost my entire efforts to the learning and understanding of the histories and diverse cultures West Africa (Atlantis.) The information is absolutely inexhaustible, and I invite you to dive into this sea of knowledge if you’re not already doing so. More and more West Africans (Atlanteans) are learning who and what we really are, and are also realizing that Western Africa (Atlantis) is truly where the answers are. I must warn you however that, like their Egyptian/Ethiopian counterparts, our West African (Atlantean) ancestors were geniuses, and much of their indigenous culture, knowledge, way of thinking, and way of life seems very foreign and difficult to understand at first, but we must begin the process of piecing ourselves back together again. The time has finally time. Ashe
     
  2. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    Which is why we call ourselves African-Americans. Unlike immigrant blacks from the continent today, e.g., Nigerian-Americans, Ghanian-Americans, etc., we cannot point to a specific country or region that our ancestors hailed from, ergo, we claim the entire continent as our point of origin.

    I beg to differ. The giants above go beyond the glories of ancient Egypt and visit their scholarship on the entirety of the continent. The reason they all talk about ancient Egypt is because it was she who gave civilization to the world, especially Europe which, when they began their careers and scholarship, was lying by saying civilization came from ancient Greece.

    Because these are the parts of our heritage that Europeans are attempting to steal and put their white faces on. These are the parts of our heritage that are under attack, thus what the "conversation" is about.

    Btw, you make a persuasive case for Atlantis and African people being the Atlanteans.

    Since you obviously have links, how about providing some. :10500:

    It's like I wrote in another thread about American Muslims from da hood (not NOI) who said that if a white Muslim and a black non-Muslim were fighting, they would join the fight on the side of the white Muslim. They were Muslims first, blacks second (or with the Puerto Rican Muslim, 3rd).

    At the Berlin Conference in the 1890's, Europe carved up Africa into colonial empires.... and took possession. The Maxim gun was not invented until WWI which began in 1914. How do you reconcile the time line?

    And the MAIN story we must tell is that the reason Europe defeated ALL of Africa is because with the help of our short-sighted and fools-be-they relatives who supplied their brothers and sisters, the ancestors of we in the diaspora, for the European slave trade, Europe depopulated Africa of not only her peoples, but of her warriors. It is one thing to defend yourself against an attacker; quite another to defend yourself against 10 people. When our short-sighted, ancestral uncles and cousins decided that millions of their kin were disposable, made war on and began selling them as POWs to Europeans (who grew richer and stronger), they weakened the military defenses of the motherland, and began the downfall of Africa.

    @ brother Shango Sage - food for thought and excellent read. :goodpost:
     
  3. Shango Sage

    Shango Sage Member MEMBER

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    Hi Kadijah, it's very nice to make your acquaintance. Glad you took the time to read through and respond in such detail. I know the post is a little long and I apologize for that, but there is just mountains of information on this subject and it's difficult for me to simply summarize without making the points clear. I'm an independent researcher into African Studies and I've studied just about every aspect of African Studies, but my current focus is on 1) African Metaphysics (spirituality,) and 2) the culture and history of Atlantis (Western Africa.) The purpose of my studies is to provide a viable and practical means for Black/African self-sufficiency, including social, political, and economic liberation. The reason I have chosen these two areas of focus is because over 20 years of research has revealed that the general knowledge, understanding, and practical use of these two bodies of knowledge will lead to Black/African social, political, and economic liberation, which I believe will lead to a more balanced equation and greater social harmony for all of the world's people.

    Reading through your responses immediately brings to mind several other posts that I must add because your opinions raise important issues and concerns that need to be properly addressed for all of us, but I would like to comment on some of your points on this post as well. Firstly, I'm glad that you feel that the evidence presented about West Africa being Atlantis is convincing. I would also like to add that this is an "extremely" important topic, and with the exception of African Spirituality (metaphysics,) I do not believe that there is a more important topic on this site. Without years of research behind you, its nearly impossible to understand how the practical use and understanding of these subjects can lead to Black/African liberation, but as a researcher who has dedicated many of years into this subject matter I can assure you that this indeed is the case. Our difficulties as Black/African people are purely psychological (not physical or intellectual,) and these two subjects will do the most to elevate our people psychologically so that we can then begin to create proper vehicles to address our physical needs as well, and I would like to explore this idea further with anyone who is interested.

    Twenty years of speaking to conscious groups and individuals all over the country has revealed to me that we as "conscious" African American people have become arrogant. A knowledgeable writer and poet that I once knew would often refer to conscious Black people of today as the "new Black bourgeoisie," in that we as Black people today often use our "knowledge of African culture and history" as a sort of social status symbol to lord ourselves over the "unconscious" Black masses. This arrogance prevents us from exploring new directions and ideas in Black consciousness. Just like with religion, we tend to get stuck on our opinions about Egypt, Continental Africans, slavery, African spirituality, etc. We must understand that EVERY CONCEPT, STUDY, WAY, RELIGION, OR IDEA IS ALWAYS AND INNATELY THEORETICAL, and we must be humble and always be open to the possibility that our current ideas, beliefs, religions, or opinions could at any day, at any moment, at any time be proven wrong. Knowledge is power, and we of course know that "all" things are truly possible. The only thing standing between a person and anything that she/he wants in this world is the proper knowledge to obtain it. The only reason that we lack something that we really want is simply because we don't "know" how to get it. In other words we don't possess the knowledge to get it, therefore we don't have the power to get it. We must therefore be especially careful with our knowledge base, and make sure to, 1) always and constantly add to it, and 2) always and constantly make sure that the knowledge that we "believe" that we possess is accurate. Everything that we "think" we know is theoretical, and we must constantly be open to the possibility that what we currently believe may in fact be incorrect. IF WE CREATED A HABIT OF DOING THIS AS BLACK PEOPLE, OUR LIBERATION WOULD SOON FOLLOW.

    Also, in response to comments about the Maxim Machine Gun, it was put into use in the British military forces in 1884, fires 600 rounds a minute, and is most famous for its use against Africans in the colonial wars.

    I'll add more information as we go along.
     
  4. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    I don't think that Egypt or Kemet as it's properly called if we are talking about the Black Egypt before the invasions and masquerading of Pharaohs by invading Kings rose before West Africa. There are pictures of West Africans in the Kemet paintings of all the known men at their time. Which seems to cover Kemetians, West Africans, Asians and Caucasians. Also the Holy City of Ile Ife goes back some 10,000 years before Christ and IFA is older than that. I believe Yoruba people as they are called now migrated to Kush and with them formed Kemet which was a kingdom of kingdoms. And when it all fell down because of many issues the Kushites returned to the South where they came from and the Yorubas returned to West Africa. The fact that land was cultivated already which can't happen with iron to cut down thick forest trees means West Africa was already forming metal. West Africa actually is the oldest part of Africa and not the East no matter what is said in Egyptology studies and I for one was a big student of Egypt and thought that Kemet was the most fascinating. But Kemet is gone and I mean long gone and West Africa is still intact in a lot of ways. Besides isn't West Africa where all the slaves came from mainly and they went to build this great nation called the United States of America?
     
  5. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    Pleased to make YOUR acquaintance, brother SS! :wave:

    While long, it was a most, well, impressive read! Your logic and ability to connect the dots were refreshing.

    Ah! I have to disagree. My skepticism based on the history of the world, i.e., there is no such thing as a bloodless revolution.

    Name one country, one people, that were liberated through either metaphysics OR though book learning.

    The above reminds me disturbingly of the Native American Ghost Dancers who believing they were invincible to bullets were slaughtered at Wounded Knee - every man, woman and child.

    Or we're afraid to go after it.
    Like I said, every nation, every people that ever lived, gained independence through armed struggle.

    I'll return on the Maxim gun because I'm pretty sure it was introduced during WWI. So until then, good talking to you. :10200:

    Okay, I'm back and you are correct:

     
  6. Shango Sage

    Shango Sage Member MEMBER

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    Absolutely excellent points brotha. We need to begin thinking more along these lines. You said a lot here bra.
     
  7. Shango Sage

    Shango Sage Member MEMBER

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    I think I need to clarify that I never said that the psychological battle is the "only" battle we have to fight. NONE of the "physical" things that we need will be gained to any significant degree until we can get over the psychological hurdles that the European power structure has so effectively put in our way. This is our most important hurdle because UNTIL WE GET OVER THIS HURDLE WE AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING AS A PEOPLE - EVER! This is a provable fact that either 1) we as Black African people do not yet realize, or 2) we simply refuse to accept. Because of the arrogance that I've mentioned earlier, we refuse to hardly even consider the idea that there is anything wrong with us, especially psychologically. The fact remains however that we as a people have not only been damaged psychologically by the system of slavery and White Supremacy, but have also been "severely" mis-educated, AND GOES FOR "ALL" OF US, NOT JUST THE IMPOVERISHED BLACK MASSES. As the Yoruba say in their proverbial wisdom, "the head (mind) is always first." In other words, the mind always precedes the body, and nothing will be accomplished physically until the mental (psychological) is properly ordered. I also KNOW that we are a truly exceptional people on this planet, so much so that the rest of the world's people have a very difficult time dealing with our innate strength, beauty, and excellence - and I say this from the standpoint of fact pounding research, not from simple pride in my ethnicity. Ashe

    In short, our only "real" hurdle is the psychological one, because when we get our heads right again there will not be anybody that will be able to stand in our way, and we will once again be able to do virtually anything we want in this world. The mental is first. The physical comes after. Ashe
     
  8. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    What percentage of blacks need to "get their heads on straight" before anything revolutionary happens? Certainly not all of us. You can never get 100% consensus.... nor is it necessary:

    Revolutionary War: 1/3 colonists wanted independence from England. 1/3 were loyalists. 1/3 sat on the fence.

    China: I have no hard figures, but China had 300 million people when Mao rose up. As far as I can determine, he never had an army of more than 100,000 people, less than 1% of the population.

    Cuba: Fidel Castro never commanded a force larger than 200-300 guerillas.

    Civil Rights Movement: Less than 1% of African-Americans participated as activists, yet this "social" revolution changed the world.

    So, how many African-Americans do you figure need to be right in the head for us to reclaim "greatness" either through the reform or the revolutionary route?

    Btw, what are your ideas on self-determination and can it be achieved for blacks in America?
     
  9. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    A second thought:
    As I went about my business today, I connected some dots, meself :) . I am a student of WWII. In order to understand WWII, one needs to have a passing knowledge of WWI (without WWI, there would have been no WWII, i.e., the conditions that led to the second war would have been absent). At any rate, you said that the Maxim machine gun was used prior to WWI.... in the motherland.
    That thought led me to the Herero people.

    The Hereros of Namibia were the first holocaust victims of the 20th century, an attempted genocide perpetrated by Germany. The Germans went on to perpetrate the same evil on the Jews during WWII that they perfected on the Hereros at the turn of the century - the same starvation/emaciated walking skeletal bodies, concentration camps, etc. The Maxim machine gun was first used in Rhodesia, present-day Zimbabwe, by the British. The British took a "perfected" version of the same weapon to WWI to decimate their enemy, the Germans.

    Most people, blacks and otherwise, have never heard of the Herero people (and certainly not the 2 now-extinct tribes the Germans did manage to exterminate). Most think the Jewish Holocaust was the ONLY holocaust (btw, the word holocaust was coined to describe the attempted genocide of the Armenians - the 2nd holocaust behind the Herero holocaust - during WWI). Until you pointed it out, I was under the impression that the Maxim machine gun was first used during WWI.... because that is what every text I've read and every film I've seen about WWI says the Maxim gun was first used during that war.

    This is the trick white historians pull on not just us, but the world. Every atrocity committed on African people(s) has come back to bite them in the butts when they take that very same.... and effective.... evil and lay it on their own whom they don't like. In short, they "omit" their sins against African people(s) and leave us to believe that atrocities they commit on their own (white) people (that they put in the history books) are brand new. We have been "spared" them, we are tacitly told (NOT!).

    At any rate, look forward to further insights, illuminations and epiphanies with the continuation of your thoughts and musings.
     
  10. Shango Sage

    Shango Sage Member MEMBER

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    You raise some very good points. I absolutely agree that we do not need anywhere close to "all of us" to get the liberation ball rolling. I estimate that this process could begin with as little as 500 to 1,000 properly enculturated and fully committed adults LIVING AND WORKING IN A SINGLE COMMUNITY AREA in order to create a "working model" for progress that can then be duplicated and expanded into any city or country area. One of the key advantages that we have as a people today is that the most knowledgeable, motivated, and culturally progressive Black African people in our society tend to be clustered within a small urban radius found in most big cities across this country and in other countries all over the world. We truly have everything we need - the numbers, money, intelligence, technical skills, and anything else, we simply just have to get our minds right before anything can or will ever happen.

    To get our selves "together" on a conscious level we as "progressive" Black African people are going to have to perform an almost a complete "mental over hall," and do away with the destructive belief systems that we currently posses. Over the last 50 to 100 years we as Black African people all over the world have been skillfully coerced into adopting a wide range of impotent and destructive sociopolitical and religious "ideologies" that simply destroy our ability to function as the socially, politically, and economically empowered people. To begin this process we need to completely dismantle every religious and sociopolitical belief system that we currently possess, and rebuild our belief system with knowledge based upon solid evidence and sound reason. In short, the emotional intensity that we so often demonstrate in holding on to belief systems that 1) are not part of our traditional knowledge base, 2) have not produced civilized African societies that have lasted for THOUSANDS of years, 3) are not based on a wealth of solid scientifically evidenced concepts, and 4) do not properly align us with our true African identities is the reason why we remain effectively impotent and unproductive as a people.

    The truth of the matter is that there has only been one model of successful, thriving, and healthy civilization this planet has ever seen and that is the African model. There really has been no other form of civilization in history. All of the so-called "civilizations" on this earth's history were either 1) started, developed, and maintained by African people, or 2) started and develop by African people, and then adopted by other people who then put their own spin on African culture. For example, there is no other "hip hop" in the world other than the art form created by African American people. Other people simply copy the elements of hip hop that they can comprehend, and then do their versions of African American hip hop using their own artists and sang in their own language. EVERY civilization around the world is exactly the same. CIVILIZATION is a purely African concept, just like hip hop is a purely African American art form, no matter how many other people adopt it into their art and lifestyle - and one day, after they've been doing it long enough conveniently "forget" that Black Americans ever had anything to do with hip hop and credit one of their own artists as the founder of the art form. This is what has happened to African civilization.

    Africans are the true geniuses on this planet, and just like African American hip hop, soul, R&B, blues, reggae, jazz, gospel, or anything else that we created, there has never been anyone else that has equaled the original African genius. What we call "Western Civilization" is just the European spin on African culture (civilization.) If you look up the origins all of the world great and original civilizations, every single one of them as a direct African root - India, China, Greece, Mesopotamia, the Americas, and of course Africa. Modern "historians" has gone through great lengths to hide this face, but evidence does not lie and always points in the same direction - Africa. The greatest problem with Western Civilization is, just as in the case with Black American music (hip hop, soul, R&B, etc.) the administrators of Western Civilization 1) lack the hundreds of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge and experience to property understand it, and 2) lack the necessary genius to adequately develop it (without destroying the environment, culture, civilization, the family structure, healthy sexuality, ethics, morality, etc. - everything that Africans worked for 200,000 years to create.)

    The greatest success of the Illuminati has been to steal the African civilization cultural format and bring it to Europe, and at the same time destroy the African civilization culture structure in Africa. The Illuminati practices an “occult” form of African science, and of course puts their own barbaric spin on it by maintaining order by creating a para-military police state instead of teaching the public morality and ethics so that they can then maintain order and police themselves as our African ancestors once did. The Illuminati police state “rule by force” structure is a temporary way of creating social order that will soon and eventually implode upon itself, not to mention the fact that the absolute abuse of the world’s natural resources will not suffer these ultra-mechanized cultures to exist for more than a few decades longer. Environmental scientists of today will tell you that the resources of the world are being depleted far too quickly and that we are facing a global meltdown within the next 40 or 50 years if the political and economic climate does not change.

    The well-constructed, highly social, family oriented, highly spiritual, agrarian based market societies of our African ancestors are the only models of civilization on this planet that have created a highly complex level of civil development while maintaining a healthy balance with nature for upwards of 10,000 years. It is the absolute epitome of brainwashed Jim Crow foolishness for the African people of the world today to ignore the absolute sea of accumulated knowledge preserved within the African traditional sciences. The first step is entreat our ancestors with the proper amount of “respect,” and finally convince ourselves that our African ancestors truly have something exceptionally valuable to add to our knowledge base. We should pay especial attention to the traditional African urban social structure model that was effectively destroyed by European colonialism. I've touched upon my ideas for Black self-determination, but to thoroughly answer your question I would need to address this issue in a larger format.

    Once again your ideas and opinions give me ideas for other threads that I need to make. Thank you for that. :cool:
     
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