Black Spirituality Religion : The Problem Of Just Rewards And Punishments

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by river, Jul 16, 2005.

  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Now most religious systems promise that at the end time those who did good in life will be rewarded and those who did evil will be punished. A God of justice would see to that, right.

    Now here's the problem--who of us falls neatly into these categories? Among humans we don't have all the good guys lined up on one side with their good deeds and all the bad guys lined up on the other side with their bad deeds. Instead we have people, billions of people, and each one of us is capable of both profound good and viscious evil.

    I don't know about you but I've done some pretty wicked things in my life starting from the time I was too young to know how old I was. But I've also done some very noble things.

    How does God decide--am I a good person who sometimes does bad things or a bad person who sometimes does good things?

    Will he draw a line down the middle of the paper and weigh the pros with the cons?

    Will he forgive all the things I've repented of? Well what was I doing on Tuesday January the fourteenth 1978 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon? Suppose I was sinning? I can't repent of something I can't remember so how can I know which way the scales will tilt?

    Can an ounce of fornication outweigh a puund of helping a stranger?

    This is not a personal question--just food for thought.
     
  2. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I do not necessarily believe in 'sin' like Christians or other faiths do. I believe that the real 'sin' is making inappropriate choices, going against nature or even your own spirit. This can go deeper than just doing something mankind has deemed as immoral.

    But anyway, I don't think God is up in heaven getting peeved off every time we do something 'wrong.' Even negative actions can eventually lead to a scenario of greater good. What I believe God wants most from us is to learn from our wrongdoing to try to make our lives better both in this life and the next.

    Granted, I think actions that are extremely evil must be dealt with, but not necessarily in the manner that Christians believe (the person buring in hell forever). In the physical realm, an extremely evil person should: 1) acknowlege their wrongdoing, 2) let the wronged party know they are remorseful, (even if the apology isn't accepted), 3) accept their earthly punishment. In the Afterlife, the evil person must acknowledge their wrongdoing and make amends with the party(ies) they wronged. Perhaps also, a spirit may take 'assignments' to further redeem themselves whether it's helping people out in the physical realm, helping out troubled spirits in the astral plane, or reincarnating to 'try again'.
     
  3. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    it's the heart of the matter...

    l don't think there is a good/bad tally sheet.
    Repentance for what you remember and what you don't remember starts you over. we're dual- natured. we do good and sometimes we do bad. What is godly makes the sense- the difference.
    there is no oneness, however, with what is good and what is godly. lt looks good to help a stranger but deep inside, l expect a return with interest. This is not godly. l fornicate, but until l stop and do what my heart tells me, l wont and can't preach to others without being first convicted- this is godly.
    goodliness and godliness are so functionally inverse.
    Jesus gave you and i many third-eye examples when he gave a story.
    One was in Matthew 7: 21-23.
    22) Many will say to me in that day " Lord , Lord have we not prophesied
    in your name? Have we not cast out devils in your name? Have we not
    done many wonderful works in your name?

    23) And then l will profess to them " I never knew you: depart from me,
    you who work iniquity. "


    He draws a distinctive line of what is good and what is godly when he spoke of a man (a law-obiding pharisee l believe) who looked at a sinner and said "Thank God l am not like this man " while the sinner beat on his chest and said "Lord, help me, a sinner ". Jesus asked who was justified in God's eyes? The sinner is.

    Another reference, as we know it to be called, is about the Good Samaritan who helped to recover a robbed and beaten levite who was left for dead on the street while his own people, the priests, passed him by. The samaritans were not ideally the ones you'd think have the heart, as it was stereotypically thought.

    What about the murderer who was hung next to Jesus?

    l think you've asked a great question b/c many people can't decipher The God and the good. lt is up to God's wisdom alone to seperate the wheat from the tare. All we can say about how God's justice is that he examines the heart of people and that doesn't mean that "good" is always "good" and "bad" is always "unnecessary" under given circumstances.

    Jesus taught us to not judge by the appearance, but judge righteous judgement. l realize people of all types love that verse "judge not" but that's a different and misunderstood topic. God judges what's good and what's not and his righteous judgement is not weighed on any religious, philosophical or intellectual scale.

    peace.
     
  4. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Hey Karma,

    That plan certainly does sound more like a God who loves us and takes no pleasure in our punishment. The Bible also says that the goodness of God leads a man to repentance. That is so true. And "Fathers, provoke not your children to wrath lest they be discouraged." Then why all the violent retrobution and dire warnings of eternal punishmentwhen God knows what it takes for us to loove him?
     
  5. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Exactly.

    I personally think God in relation to us humans and really any of His/Her creation is the ultimate parent. And a parent who TRULY loves their child cannot let that love fail, regardless of how evil a child may become. Why would God be any different? I definitely believe that God does not give up for even the most evil of souls. He/She will extend their light of love even in hell (which is a realm created by our own guilt not necessarily forced by God, though for some souls it might be the only way they can become 'purified'). If we continue living a hellish existence whether on earth or in the astral plane it is because we ourselves became too immersed in our guilt and evil.
     
  6. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Wow this happens all the time! Right now Earth Wind and Fire are playing Hearts of Fire.

    Yes that is what fire does--it purifies. Like the silversmith who holds a piece of silver over the fire until all the impurities are gone and when that happens he can see his reflection (image) in it. But if he keeps it in he fire too long it will burn. If it is God's purpose to see his image in us then it is the impurities not us that must be burnt.
     
  7. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I agree, though I don't believe that hell is automatically fire and brimestone. I think it is created according to whatever fears the person had during their life. Some spiritualists also consider being stuck in the ghost realm as being a type of hell because the spirit has no opportunity for growth. In the spirit world emotional pain can be just as damaging as physical pain.

    Regardless, God has allowed these realms to exist for our benefit, not destruction. I don't think He/She meant for any soul to exist there forever, unless of course the spirit chooses to stay there. And I am inclined to believe that eventually, even if takes a gazillion years in a hellish realm, almost every soul will decide to embrace God's light and move into a higher level of the astral plane.
     
  8. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The mistake people make today and probably have made through out history is falsely believing that we go to heaven or hell based on our good and or bad deeds. The bible tells us that it is not our deeds that decide where we go in the afterlife but rather it is Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross that allows us to go to heaven -- nothing that we can possibly do on this earth could make us worthy of salvation because humanity is evil and sinful so we can never be worthy ,so this shows how much God loves us by allowing our evil and sin to be washed away by Christ 's blood . All we have to do to be saved is love God ,believe Christ's is our lord and savior , treat everyone the way you want to be treated and make disciples of all nations .If we do these things we will go to heaven
     
  9. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Of course when I say "fire" I don't mean the physical fire but just what you are talking about.

    Where do you get your knowledge about the astral and spitiual worlds? Right now I am reading Ra Un Nefer Amen and M. Ashby. But I don't want to go into my search with the Christian idea that there is just one book that contains all the truth. In fact, even in astrology and the Pert Em Heru there are different versions and interpretations that don't always agree with each other. So I have to take an eclectic approach and let my spirit guide me to what is true about God.
     
  10. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I have visited websites discussing astral travel. I have also read an ebook written by a guy who has visited that plane. Even communicating in this forum with the spiritualists has helped me grow.

    I have also had a personal experience where I believe I had projected to a very low-level of the astral plane. It's hard to explain, and I don't want to get into it because it was negative, but basically in my 'corrupted' thinking (I was going through severe depression at the time), occurences were revolving around what I thought to be true, even though it wasn't 'reality.' Still holding onto Christianity at the time may have been what made that experience the way it was, because I thought some of the things being 'revealed' (levels of heaven and hell, etc.) made me evil. Doctors and non-spiritualists woudl say this experience was evident of a 'nervous breakdown'.... I say differently. I would even say that I believe most people suffering from severe 'mental problems' are really suffering from a very thwarted sense of spirituality. They are able to see and experience things that a normal person grounded in 'reality' would not experience. They are also a target for negative spirits stuck in the 'ghost realm.'
     
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